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Dealing with hearing loss
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Head
 

Dealing with hearing loss

I'm not sure where to post this thread. I recently discovered the degree of hearing loss that I have. This something I was already coping with and for other reasons I recorded the frequency sweep test tones off the Ultimate Test record.

I spent some time messing around with it and discovered I hear good up to 3500Hz and at a low volume after 3500 I can't really hear a thing test tone wise. If I crank it up I can hear up to 14K. There is a dip between 3500 and 5500 then a little better 5500 to 6500. I hear a little less 6500-9500 then a touch better 9500-14K.

So messing around in RX6 advanced, first with the test tone file I came up with those numbers through a trial and error process I got it figured out that by raising and lowering bands of frequencies on a finished file it sounded pretty good and I could pick up on the instruments I have been hearing less of and seemed to have just gotten used to.

So it went like this with the file in the spectral view I highlighted each band of frequencies on the entire file (24/96 needledrop)
0-3500 -2 gain
3500-5500 +5 gain
5500-6500 +3 gain
6500-9500 +1 gain
9500-48K +3 gain

I then check and if I need to re normalize to fix any new clips. Saving to it's own file. The few I did sounded much better than attempts with multiple EQ filters.

The reason I posted it here I want to figure out if possible how to set up some kind of a plug-in chain that will apply something similar to the headphone and main outputs but the file remains flat. May be to much for me to figure out on my own. Surely if must be possible and with all of us old guys a demand for something like this.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
BT64's Avatar
What DAW do you use?
In Cubase Pro you could use the Controlroom.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
What DAW do you use?
In Cubase Pro you could use the Controlroom.
Mostly I record and process vinyl in Izotope RX6 advanced and Play 24/96 files in Sound forge 11.0 I also have Ozone 7.0 advanced.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

It is one thing to have "good ears";

...But it is quite another to actually Learn to LISTEN!

The relationship between these two concepts are not as quite as clear-cut as one might imagine:

This would best be explained by this deaf woman (and world-renowned musician) Evelyn Glennie:

...For the tl;dr crowd, just skip on up to about 2:12 or so...
.

Last edited by 12ax7; 3 weeks ago at 07:34 PM.. Reason: Decided to add the bold script
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

We all deal with differences in our hearing across time, assuming we're lucky enough to have a long career being involved with sound. The trick is to be aware of the changes and sort of "recalibrate" yourself. Pick a small number of varied tracks, listen to them incessantly until they're burned into your memory and always use them. If you notice a difference in what you're hearing in your normal listening environment, you know that you've changed, not the material, and adjust your mixing to what you hear. I learned this from a film mixer as he approached 80 and continued to do great work. Hard to argue with the results.

Because I like having some confidence reinforcement, I also have a spectrum analyzer on the master bus (before any speaker correction) available to take a look at and make sure I haven't done anything obviously dumb. Seems to work.

As always, YMMV.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Head
 

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences. The video is much appreciated 12ax7! I may need to watch it again.

I've been having fun today basically boosting the frequencies like above with a couple more steps. I derived the numbers or ranges by listening to the recording of the test record making notes of mostly when I couldn't hear the tones or even when a tone at 2400Hz sounded louder, an effect from my speakers.
Having all these notes I derived the ranges to be adjusted. I ran the process on the recorded tones listening and tweaking the numbers until I could hear all the tones from the speakers. The levels change some but I can clearly hear them up to 14k.
So I ran the same process on audio files. I'm quite pleased with the sound. The only thing I didn't like on a few records that were bright to start with sounded to bright so the last thing I do is 10300-48k adjustment so I can change it easily.

For now it's pretty amazing. It may be just that today is a good day but usually the tinnitus symptoms are more noticeable perhaps filling holes in my hearing in is a good thing.

What I'm hearing is subtle in the areas I haven't been hearing well. Doesn't sound unnatural in any way. The imagining is even better. Not sure what someone with good hearing would think. I'm thinking unless they really knew the music they would not think it was wrong or they would think my system is all tubey sounding or something.

I have doubts I could duplicate this with DSP from a device or eq filters. On the plus side it only takes a few minutes to run and saving two files is easy enough.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Rider View Post
The video is much appreciated 12ax7! I may need to watch it again.
No!
You need to LISTEN to it again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Rider View Post
It may be just that today is a good day but usually the tinnitus symptoms are more noticeable perhaps filling holes in my hearing in is a good thing.
...Well, some may call it "Tinnitus"...
I call it "Organic Dither"!
.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Rider View Post
I'm not sure where to post this thread. I recently discovered the degree of hearing loss that I have. This something I was already coping with and for other reasons I recorded the frequency sweep test tones off the Ultimate Test record.

I spent some time messing around with it and discovered I hear good up to 3500Hz and at a low volume after 3500 I can't really hear a thing test tone wise. If I crank it up I can hear up to 14K. There is a dip between 3500 and 5500 then a little better 5500 to 6500. I hear a little less 6500-9500 then a touch better 9500-14K.

So messing around in RX6 advanced, first with the test tone file I came up with those numbers through a trial and error process I got it figured out that by raising and lowering bands of frequencies on a finished file it sounded pretty good and I could pick up on the instruments I have been hearing less of and seemed to have just gotten used to.

So it went like this with the file in the spectral view I highlighted each band of frequencies on the entire file (24/96 needledrop)
0-3500 -2 gain
3500-5500 +5 gain
5500-6500 +3 gain
6500-9500 +1 gain
9500-48K +3 gain

I then check and if I need to re normalize to fix any new clips. Saving to it's own file. The few I did sounded much better than attempts with multiple EQ filters.

The reason I posted it here I want to figure out if possible how to set up some kind of a plug-in chain that will apply something similar to the headphone and main outputs but the file remains flat. May be to much for me to figure out on my own. Surely if must be possible and with all of us old guys a demand for something like this.
not sure whether you're taking the right conclusions/your 'test' isn't flawed:

first of all, you need to make sure your speaker system measures flat! it can only do so if your room is treated very well. simple prove via measurement/analysis software...

then, you need to listen within an optimum spl range which is considered to be around 85dBa for most folks, see fletcher-munson and countless other and many newer studies...

also, you need to be fit, do several tests over a period of a few weeks and average results - only then you might get some hints at potential hearing loss...

LISTENING and COMPARING is the key to judge sound, more sensible than using dsp correct to compensate for slightly reduced hearing capacity - nothing bad with using dsp on monitoring chain though: i use it in all my rooms and sometimes to compensate for different spl levels...



[hearing will deteriorate over age anyhow.
i met al schmitt earlier this year: he's 89 and he clearly has hearing issues - which doesn't stop him from being a brilliant engineer!
or evelyn glennie: different case and much younger yet she doesn't make a big fuzz out of her reduced hearing capability - got to work with her and didn't found it to be difficult at all either.
or take countless other musicians/engineers...]
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
not sure whether you're taking the right conclusions/your 'test' isn't flawed:

first of all, you need to make sure your speaker system measures flat! it can only do so if your room is treated very well. simple prove via measurement/analysis software...

then, you need to listen within an optimum spl range which is considered to be around 85dBa for most folks, see fletcher-munson and countless other and many newer studies...

also, you need to be fit, do several tests over a period of a few weeks and average results - only then you might get some hints at potential hearing loss...

LISTENING and COMPARING is the key to judge sound, more sensible than using dsp correct to compensate for slightly reduced hearing capacity - nothing bad with using dsp on monitoring chain though: i use it in all my rooms and sometimes to compensate for different spl levels...



[hearing will deteriorate over age anyhow.
i met al schmitt earlier this year: he's 89 and he clearly has hearing issues - which doesn't stop him from being a brilliant engineer!
or evelyn glennie: different case and much younger yet she doesn't make a big fuzz out of her reduced hearing capability - got to work with her and didn't found it to be difficult at all either.
or take countless other musicians/engineers...]
I know my test is flawed and my frequency adjustments are not perfect. Just a no harm done experiment. My room is heavily treated and is flat, either way I used my ears from the sweat spot of the room to determine what needs to go up or down and all my adjustments are square blocks and have no way of formulating or creating the curves to accurately correct my hearing loss.

At the end of the day this will probably something I do for a time but I think this is a interesting way to EQ for ones personal tastes.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Rider View Post
I know my test is flawed and my frequency adjustments are not perfect. Just a no harm done experiment. My room is heavily treated and is flat, either way I used my ears from the sweat spot of the room to determine what needs to go up or down and all my adjustments are square blocks and have no way of formulating or creating the curves to accurately correct my hearing loss.

At the end of the day this will probably something I do for a time but I think this is a interesting way to EQ for ones personal tastes.
nothing bad with finding out about limits and options; my point is just to be a bit careful when applying corrective eq...

i admit i take a lake lm44 speaker processor everywhere i go, even on location recording - having measured and aligned a couple of thousand speaker systems, i am pretty confident using it: not only to align speakers, correct fr, compensate for different spl levels (i wish there would be a device which would allow for dynamic adjustment) but also for my hearing loss! the latter only if other folks attend the mix or mastering sessions though: i don't want to switch between corrected and normal hearing situation too much or too long as it imo takes away too much focus and concentration. also, it took me months to find out when to apply what correction...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
nothing bad with finding out about limits and options; my point is just to be a bit careful when applying corrective eq...

i admit i take a lake lm44 speaker processor everywhere i go, even on location recording - having measured and aligned a couple of thousand speaker systems, i am pretty confident using it: not only to align speakers, correct fr, compensate for different spl levels (i wish there would be a device which would allow for dynamic adjustment) but also for my hearing loss! the latter only if other folks attend the mix or mastering sessions though: i don't want to switch between corrected and normal hearing situation too much or too long as it imo takes away too much focus and concentration. also, it took me months to find out when to apply what correction...
That's why I'm not changing the source file just creating a 2nd copy with the corrections.

I googled the Lake lm44 looks like it could be set up to do what I want. Probably more than it's worth for me but I do want to learn more about the Dante expansion options. I recently bought the Merging Technologies Anubis and it is expandable thru a Dante network but going down that road could be expensive and at best I'm a advanced consumer.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Head
 

Here's a 60 second sample of the changes. 1st half is altered and 2nd half is flat.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9hy0h7g2h8...flat.flac?dl=0
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