The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Vaping increases the quality of my life
Old 26th April 2019
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I'd imagine a lot of teens vape for the nicotine buzz, and also to be "cool". I think young people are generally curious, and most need to try things out on their own, and it goes without saying they're easily swayed by peer pressure. Unfortunately, they've no idea about the addictive element.

[...]
And that's the real problem. They get the (verbal) buzz that vaping isn't as 'dangerous' as smoking and in the oversimplified binary thinking of so many people (not the least, young folks who simply do not have the same breadth of experience making them skeptical/cynical), 'the choice is clear.' =/

The best choice, of course, is just to never start using nicotine products.

The problem, of course, is that nicotine is (generally speaking) still one of the most addictive substances in the modern pharmacopoeia.
Old 26th April 2019
  #32
yep
Gear Nut
 

I found vaping to be helpful in quitting smoking. I think it was easier for me to transition to vaping and then to quit vaping, than it was to quit smoking directly.

I have no medical authority and cannot offer any proof, just personal experience and opinion, but I am 100% sure that vaping was much less bad for me than smoking, and was also much worse for me than not vaping.

I'll also say, for the benefit of any smokers/vapers who think that their lives might be better without nicotine: for me, life is MUCH better as a nonsmoker. Also, for me personally, the addiction and crave DID eventually go away completely. Now, if I knew were going to die tomorrow, I wouldn't smoke, because I don't want to anymore.

Everyone is different, but for me what clicked was the realization that I was smoking to alleviate a gnawing craving, and that I could cure it for an hour or so by lighting a cigarette, or I could (eventually) cure it forever by never smoking another cigarette again. I knew I didn't want to live life as a nicotine addict using willpower to deny myself a fix, I wanted to live like nonsmokers do, where it's just not part of my mental life or reality.

Now, when I see people smoking, I'm not envious nor angry nor judgemental about how they should stop, I just feel bad for them, because I know how it feels to live every day counting the number of cigs left in the pack, thinking about what time the store closes, watching the clock for the next break, making social plans and travel arrangements based on smoking policies, being afraid to ask friends to pull over on long road trips so you can stand outside and smoke in the cold to tide you over for a couple more hours...

I think maybe it was different 50 years ago when everyone smoked everywhere, all the time, but it's just not a fun way to live anymore, even if I didn't care about the cost and the health effects and the smell. I tried to quit a lot of times, but it never really took because I didn't really want to stop smoking. I mean, I wanted to save money and be healthier and not smell like an ashtray, but I also really wanted to still be able to smoke. I felt like I would have to spend a lifetime sacrificing that.

It wasn't until a switch flipped in my head, an awareness that nonsmokers don't spend a lifetime sacrificing happiness, they just don't smoke, and were almost certainly happier for it. And that if I didn't smoke, I would be a nonsmoker, and I wouldn't be giving anything up, I would be gaining that same freedom and indifference to it. It was still hard at times, but instead of feeling every day like this is never going to end, I was able to feel like every day I was a little closer to never having to think about this stuff ever again. I know that probably sounds stupid, but it's how it went for me.
Old 15th May 2019
  #33
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
And that's the real problem. They get the (verbal) buzz that vaping isn't as 'dangerous' as smoking and in the oversimplified binary thinking of so many people (not the least, young folks who simply do not have the same breadth of experience making them skeptical/cynical)
[...]
North Carolina AG sues e-cigarette maker Juul, says it ‘downplayed’ dangers of nicotine to children
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/15/nort...g-dangers.html

"Downplayed"?

These companies would market speedballs to Girl's Scouts if they could make a dime...
Old 16th May 2019
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
North Carolina AG sues e-cigarette maker Juul, says it ‘downplayed’ dangers of nicotine to children
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/15/nort...g-dangers.html

"Downplayed"?

These companies would market speedballs to Girl's Scouts if they could make a dime...
Yeah.


And let me tell you: I fear Big Cannabis is going to give us all something everyone can hate, if maybe for different reasons. The grafting of corporate greed to the noble roadside weed could well create an all new -- yet old all over again -- kind of monster.
Old 16th May 2019
  #35
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
And let me tell you: I fear Big Cannabis is going to give us all something everyone can hate, if maybe for different reasons. The grafting of corporate greed to the noble roadside weed could well create an all new -- yet old all over again -- kind of monster.
No doubt, but when the dust is settled, I'd imagine big pharma and the relics of the tobacco industry to have some stake in the game...just a hunch.
Old 16th May 2019
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
No doubt, but when the dust is settled, I'd imagine big pharma and the relics of the tobacco industry to have some stake in the game...just a hunch.
Oh, that assumption -- that fear -- is at the heart of my statement. It's not addictive or an existential necessity -- like they like -- but it is, on the consumer side, a well developed demand -- but a market that was, until recent years, served on an informal basis by, er, mom and pop providers.
Old 16th May 2019
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Oh, that assumption -- that fear -- is at the heart of my statement. It's not addictive or an existential necessity -- like they like -- but it is, on the consumer side, a well developed demand -- but a market that was, until recent years, served on an informal basis by, er, mom and pop providers.
LOL! I love a clever post. Nice.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #38
Just started vaping this week.

I've been smoking Marlboros for the past 20 years, basically a full pack with 20 cigarettes everyday, and lately I've been feeling really bad about, not only physically but mentally as well. Yep's post was spot on for me, and I also intend to use vaping as a way out. I've tried using medication such as Zyban and Champix but the side effects were atrocious, I know it varies from person to person and two family members felt fine with them but for me it was simply a disaster, I felt really, really bad.

So far vaping has enabled me to smoke A LOT less, I'm currently smoking less 10 cigarettes per day and a pack is lasting more than 48 hours, which to me is unprecedented since I started smoking. The problem for is that I'm not only addicted but I enjoy the act of smoking, so vaping gives me the nicotine fix and I'm inhaling/exhaling something, although it's not "real thing" it's still something. Feels like using plug-ins instead of hardware!


PS: thread moved to Health & Hearing Loss forum.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #39
I don't want to discourage anyone -- vaping still appears to be less dangerous than smoking tobacco cigarettes -- but a seemingly significant new study using MRI analysis appears to demonstrate significant risk from vaping -- even when not vaping nicotine/tobacco related substances. (Ahem, my fellow hippies.)

Vaping changes blood vessels after one use, even without nicotine

E-cigarettes change blood vessels after just one use, study says

Here’s How a Single Session of Vaping Can Hurt Your Lungs
Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogo C View Post
Just started vaping this week.

I've been smoking Marlboros for the past 20 years, basically a full pack with 20 cigarettes everyday, and lately I've been feeling really bad about, not only physically but mentally as well. Yep's post was spot on for me, and I also intend to use vaping as a way out. I've tried using medication such as Zyban and Champix but the side effects were atrocious, I know it varies from person to person and two family members felt fine with them but for me it was simply a disaster, I felt really, really bad.

So far vaping has enabled me to smoke A LOT less, I'm currently smoking less 10 cigarettes per day and a pack is lasting more than 48 hours, which to me is unprecedented since I started smoking. The problem for is that I'm not only addicted but I enjoy the act of smoking, so vaping gives me the nicotine fix and I'm inhaling/exhaling something, although it's not "real thing" it's still something. Feels like using plug-ins instead of hardware!


PS: thread moved to Health & Hearing Loss forum.
Congratulations that's for sure. It was the only step down that worked for me.

One time I went to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, because my drinking was causing problems, and I ran into an old friend. He told me he'd kicked heroin for quite a while. I was happy for him. He was happy for me too, because I had to tell him who I was because after a year of "getting in shape" I'd lost close to 100 pounds.

We chain smoked cigarettes as we talked, and it was then I realized how bad cigarette addiction was. But I noticed there was more than nicotine addiction in the chemistry of cigarettes and TV shows started talking about how tobacco companies add sugar so when that's burned with tobacco it produces another addictive substance. I think it's Acetaldehyde.

* my internet connection is strange today and I'll post this now in case it goes totally down
Old 3 weeks ago
  #41
Today there was a story about an alarming rate of teenagers that are being hospitalized for vaping. I think that stuff is bad juju for the human body.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/h...igarettes.html

https://www.foxnews.com/health/teen-...d-health-scare
Old 3 weeks ago
  #42
Lives for gear
I have smoked full time or vaped full time. To me here are the beinfits to vaping.

1. I feel better overall
2. Teeth look better
3. I can control the nicotine level
4. Less cost
5. The sense of smell comes back, I don't smell like smoke.
6. Food tasts better
7. The house, Car, & Cloths smell better.

Sure vaping is still heating up your lungs and doing damage. But better than really smoking for me.

The kids don't know how to control the nicotine level. JUUL has made massive amounts on niccotine available to kids.
If you have not been a smoker for years, you don't know when to stop puffing. It's like learning to drink with only tequila around.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
I have smoked full time or vaped full time. To me here are the beinfits to vaping.

1. I feel better overall
2. Teeth look better
3. I can control the nicotine level
4. Less cost
5. The sense of smell comes back, I don't smell like smoke.
6. Food tasts better
7. The house, Car, & Cloths smell better.

Sure vaping is still heating up your lungs and doing damage. But better than really smoking for me.

The kids don't know how to control the nicotine level. JUUL has made massive amounts on niccotine available to kids.
If you have not been a smoker for years, you don't know when to stop puffing. It's like learning to drink with only tequila around.
On that last, for sure!

Vaping to get off cigarettes and hopefully off nicotine is one thing.

But STARTING vaping because it's trendy/cool/etc is really, really a bad 'idea.'

Nicotine, as noted, is one of the very hardest addictive drugs to quit. Worse than heroin or speed, most folks who've been around say. (And, sadly, I've known a fair number of folks who'be been around in such fashion.)

Vaping tobacco/nicotine products is a very direct way to get yourself hooked to an expensive, harmful drug.


That said, if anyone checks out the study in any of the articles I linked to a few posts back, they'll see that it's not just nicotine vaping that appears to have an immediate negative effect on lung health and circulation. Non-nicotine, flavored vaping oil as well as cannabis oil vaping seem to be implicated, as well. (Sorry to be the bearer of unpleasant tidings, my modern hippie brethren.)

[There are provisos about the study, which is recent and has not been replicated yet -- but the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) thought the findings were important and timely enough to publicize now rather than waiting for more confirmation from replicative studies.]
Old 3 weeks ago
  #44
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
-=REMIXED!=-

To be fair, JAMA is usually pretty credible. But recently every news outlet carried a story how vaping leads to marijuana use in young adults:

Vaping linked to marijuana use in young people, research says

The study made red flags go up.
First of all it was a meta study, that is, a study of 20 other studies. The topic was something like vaping and marijuana use linked in ages 10-24.
Now... first of all, let's break the study between the underage group of 10 and 17 so we're dealing with school kids. Where is everyone 18-24? They're adult and legal. Makes no sense.

The meta study strongly implies they've drawn conclusions based on data before marijuana was legalized in most of the states. We know Big Pharma put a lot of might into discouraging legalization, so it's skewed wrong any way you look at it.

Here in my town in Michigan, there is a local call-in Doctor PBS channel show every Thursday, and never would they mention marijuana at all. Not even after it's fully legal.

Again, over 400,000 tobacco-related deaths in the US every year (fairly no vape/weed deaths); JAMA critic JoeyM of Gearslutz says this report is utterly a junk science scare-mongering mock-up.

But really, I'm proud of all of us who don't want underage addiction going on. I take the time to occasionally remind a vaping company they shouldn't market to kids and if I think they are I'll go where they market to keep old smokers healthy.

Last edited by JoeyM; 3 weeks ago at 06:37 AM.. Reason: to hideout from bigger responsibilities
Old 3 weeks ago
  #45
Lives for gear
 

Chantix worked for Ray Liotta!

Old 3 weeks ago
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM View Post
-=REMIXED!=-

To be fair, JAMA is usually pretty credible. But recently every news outlet carried a story how vaping leads to marijuana use in young adults:

Vaping linked to marijuana use in young people, research says

The study made red flags go up.
First of all it was a meta study, that is, a study of 20 other studies. The topic was something like vaping and marijuana use linked in ages 10-24.
Now... first of all, let's break the study between the underage group of 10 and 17 so we're dealing with school kids. Where is everyone 18-24? They're adult and legal. Makes no sense.

The meta study strongly implies they've drawn conclusions based on data before marijuana was legalized in most of the states. We know Big Pharma put a lot of might into discouraging legalization, so it's skewed wrong any way you look at it.

Here in my town in Michigan, there is a local call-in Doctor PBS channel show every Thursday, and never would they mention marijuana at all. Not even after it's fully legal.

Again, over 400,000 tobacco-related deaths in the US every year (fairly no vape/weed deaths); JAMA critic JoeyM of Gearslutz says this report is utterly a junk science scare-mongering mock-up.

But really, I'm proud of all of us who don't want underage addiction going on. I take the time to occasionally remind a vaping company they shouldn't market to kids and if I think they are I'll go where they market to keep old smokers healthy.
I just want to point out my up-thumb is primarily for the overall positive attitude and the final paragraph's sentiment. It's NOT really an endorsement of your (perhaps somewhat ironic) critique of the science behind the study. I think we need to replicate this study and do some ancillary work before we start coming to hard, fast conclusions.

That said, as someone who has for some time been concerned about the purity/freedom from dangerous solvents and other materials of cannabis-derived vaping oils, I think it may be time to re-explore 'dry flower' (unprocessed, raw cannabis flower/tops) use in 'flower oven' attachments for vape pen batteries in use scenarios where it makes sense.

I'm aware that a lot of folks have gotten into the habit of keeping a cannabis-loaded vape pen next to the bed if they have sleeping difficulties. Cannabis beats commercial pharma sleep aids any day, healthwise, seems to me. I was once prescribed an (at the time) very popular sleeping pill (Dalmane) by an orthopedist. I dutifully took the prescribed pill every night, and, for sure, it knocked me right out.

But after about ten days I was talking to the insurance administrator at the company I'd been working for one morning. About fifteen minutes after getting off the phone with her, my old boss (who I had a good, fairly candid relationship with) called up and said, "Sally asked me if you were on heavy drugs after your accident. She said you're really slurring your words. And, well, you are."

I was kinda shocked, but figured it must be true -- and, for sure, I'd been feeling sludgy and heavy-headed during the days. Not long later I was reading a "Your Prescription and You" type column in the LA Times and it had a letter from a middle aged guy whose just-barely senior father was showing 'premature' signs of dementia, he thought. Turns out the old fella's doc had prescribed Dalmane for sleep difficulties. The columnist then pointed out to the letter-writer that Dalmane has a half-life in the blood of six days... I did the math and got off that ****.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #47
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Chantix worked for Ray Liotta!

Good for Ray if Chantix did work for him (he got paid for the commercial regardless), and lucky for him it didn't drive him to suicide like it did to some other users.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Good for Ray if Chantix did work for him (he got paid for the commercial regardless), and lucky for him it didn't drive him to suicide like it did to some other users.
Did you watch?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #49
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Did you watch?
I've seen the commercials on TV, several different ones, not just the one that had Ray on it. They all have a risk of suicide disclaimer on it.

I'm just weary of using psychotropic drugs for smoking cessation. Seems like it could introduce other problems.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #50
Varenicline (the main ingredient in Chantix and similar products) does look like something of which one would want to take a good look at the side-effects before embarking on a treatment path.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varenicline
Old 3 weeks ago
  #51
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I've seen the commercials on TV, several different ones, not just the one that had Ray on it. They all have a risk of suicide disclaimer on it.

I'm just weary of using psychotropic drugs for smoking cessation. Seems like it could introduce other problems.
It's not a real commercial.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #52
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
It's not a real commercial.
Haha...had no idea.

No footage from Something Wild though. He had some good psycho scenes in that one.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #53
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
It's not a real commercial.
yeah me neither, I looked at that and dismissed it thinking "there's a suicide warning on that".
Old 3 weeks ago
  #54
Gear Head
 
coso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Nicotine, as noted, is one of the very hardest addictive drugs to quit. Worse than heroin or speed, most folks who've been around say.
I think you are conflating nicotine and tobacco addiction. There is actually some evidence that nicotine is not particularly addictive when administered in isolation:

Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug [but] it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine. In 2009, a French team found that combining nicotine with a cocktail of five other chemicals found in tobacco — anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine — significantly increased rats’ hyperactivity and self-administration of the mix compared with nicotine alone.

From http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

Old 3 weeks ago
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by coso View Post
I think you are conflating nicotine and tobacco addiction. There is actually some evidence that nicotine is not particularly addictive when administered in isolation:

Tobacco use has one of the highest rates of addiction of any abused drug [but] it’s almost impossible to get laboratory animals hooked on pure nicotine. In 2009, a French team found that combining nicotine with a cocktail of five other chemicals found in tobacco — anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine — significantly increased rats’ hyperactivity and self-administration of the mix compared with nicotine alone.

From http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

Thanks for the corrective info!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #56
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coso View Post
...There is actually some evidence that nicotine is not particularly addictive when administered in isolation....
That does seem true, at least I can think of one particular kid who is a friend of the neighbors, maybe 15-17 and he's using an expensive vaping unit and blowing clouds that fill up half the yard. One day he comes over asking if I wanted to buy it and I said no I'm at the other end of the spectrum, I don't need clouds, just that throat hit like I loved with cigarettes. I don't remember seeing him smoke or vape after that, he may have just gotten over the fad of blowing clouds and moved on with his life.

Full disclosure I think he did sell weed, so that might be a point in favor of the JAMA study.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #57
As I hinted above with regard to cannabis, I've been exploring the 'flower oven' vape pen attachment option... since there are no additives [though, of course, blackmarket or poorly sourced cannabis, itself, might have been exposed to pesticides] and the substance being vaporized or burnt (depending on temperature, I guess) is relatively dry, not a gooey oil, I'm hoping it might end run the problems with vaping refined 'juice'/oils. It seems a pretty low-impact way of intaking small amounts of cannabis active ingredients -- but that may be as much because it simply does not produce a lot of vapor or smoke. The amount put into the 'oven' is necessarily small -- and I've found that a flattened 'pill' (a small ball of flower pressed flat) seems to work well by keeping the payload close to the heating element. What IS unknown, of course, is if that direct contact with the heating element itself on the flower could produce harmful compounds.

As one of my friends elsewhere pointed out, oldschool consumption (burning/oxidation and eating) appears to be relatively low-risk and time-honored. [Though, of course, inhaling any kind of smoke has negative impact; but there is some suggestive evidence that some of the ingredients in cannabis actually help to mitigate or even heal such damage.]

It's all kinda too-bad, because, for a time, vaping cannabis oil (where it's legal, of course! ) looked like a good, 'clean,' low-health-impact way of intaking cannabis for pain relief/mitigation (the big one for me, as I have lots of traumatic arthritis from a long ago motorcycle accident). I guess 'LOOKED' is the key word, there. =(

But, again, for those getting off tobacco cigarettes, moving to vaping and then (hopefully) weaning oneself from vaping still seems to be a better idea than continuing smoking cigarettes.

My sympathies to those trying to kick.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #58
It's all fun & games until someone loses their life due to vaping!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49452256
Old 3 weeks ago
  #59
yep
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogo C View Post
...The problem for is that I'm not only addicted but I enjoy the act of smoking...
Not to get preachy, but I wish there was some way I could flip a switch and let you experience one day as a person who has never smoked.

I bet you would enjoy that day so much more than any cigarette, that you would have nightmares about smoking another cigarette, or waking up to live again as a smoker.

That was the switch that flipped in my head, that made quitting finally "take". When I zoomed out and saw a cigarette not as a single discrete pleasure/relaxation/break, but as part of a continuum of life as a smoker that I could either stay in or get out of.

My addiction constantly wanted to tell me there was a third option, to just smoke one cigarette right now. I think some people are able to have that kind of relationship with tobacco, but not me. It was like ex that you either had to marry, or never see again.

For me, I could either be a smoker, or I could be a nonsmoker. Each of those choices with all the attendant pros and cons. I don't get the choice of "I'll just have an occasional cigarette". And for me, being a nonsmoker is vastly more enjoyable than being a smoker. I don't usually think about it, but I should make a point to, because I am so happy every time I realize that I am free of that monkey that dogged me for so long.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #60
Gear Head
 
coso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I've been exploring the 'flower oven' vape pen attachment option. What IS unknown, of course, is if that direct contact with the heating element itself on the flower could produce harmful compounds.
Have you stumbled across the Mighty vaporizer? Not cheap but it allows the user to set an exact temperature - see attached.

Attached Thumbnails
Vaping increases the quality of my life-temperatures.jpg  
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump