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High Frequency Hearing Loss Studio Headphones
Old 15th October 2018
  #31
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Yes... I have heard about Refined Audiometrics, it is a guy wich have made in the past a very complex and expensive system wich claims to restore hearing near to perfection. It is more than a a simple EQ, there is a lot of maths in it.

He is still active on the internet (as David B Mcclain), and he presented his system as a VST called Crescendo.

Unforntunately, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to contact him. It is very strange.



I prefer to mix with my own hearing right now, but I have a fear about this kind of systems, like Aumeo : is it dangerous ? I mean, it basically boost the frequencies we hear less, so the sound we get is better.

But, just imagine if someone with a normal hearing would use our profile ? It would sound very very harsh. And what I mean is that we may harm our hearing with this kind of system, without knowing it.



I hope I am wrong. I think if it was dangerous, it would be sold, but who know...

I read that Aumeo can boost up to 100db (on their website). This is really huge, I would not let someone boosting my hearing of 100db...




The best solution would be a system dedicated for audiophiles/music producers, with a lot of compression to make the correction realistic.

Right now, the only similar solution is Refined Audiometrics, but it is basically impossible to get in touch with them.
Old 15th October 2018
  #32
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"On further thought: Shouldn't iZotope - or Sonar - make an app/module, etc to do this kind of thing...?"

That would be cool. It is really strange that no or very little companies ever had the idea of developping that kind of thing.


On Facebook, on a sound engineering group, someone already asked the question, and here is the answer from someone working for Sonarworks :


"we have two main solutions. Reference 4 for audio pros and TrueFi for music lovers and listeners. Hearing loss compensation would be a hard thing to implement in Reference 4 because of we tweak the sound of your monitors on a personal level, others on the room will definitely feel that which is why you always aim for a flat room either using acoustic and/or digital treatment. In a studio, flat is king. Outside of the studio, listen for pleasure. Treat yourself. Hearing loss personalization is something the TrueFi product is capable of using although not yet implemented. If you are looking for a pair of headphones on the meantime, try Nuraphone but I would not use them to mix... mixing on a personalised curve on headphones and then on monitors will not translate well."
Old 17th October 2018
  #33
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howseth's Avatar
Quote:
I read that Aumeo can boost up to 100db (on their website). This is really huge, I would not let someone boosting my hearing of 100db...
I don't think they said that. I'll have to go back - I thought it was 25db....

- From the Aumeo website FAQ: Aumeo's effective frequency range is from 50Hz-20kHz, though we are measuring only 8 points from 125Hz to 12.5kHz in the hardware during calibration. The rest of the points will be "predicted" from the existing medical data for hearing print patterns, as we'd like to save time for the user so the test wouldn't take longer than necessary. Our amplification is around 25dB max on each of the frequencies.

What I want to know - how will it translate plugged into my Audient ID 22 interface - through my Sennheiser HD600 headphones?
Old 26th October 2018
  #34
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howseth's Avatar
Curiosity won out: I decided to order an Aumeo Tailored Headphone device (from Amazon) - Comes in about a week. We will hear what we will hear. They currently cost $118 (before tax.) shipped to California.

The reviews I've read suggest the device is liked best by people with mild to moderate hearing loss - that seems to be my category. "Normal ears' were less impressed.

Meanwhile - it does seem inevitable that one of the software companies will be making a plug in to do this ..... eventually.
Old 30th October 2018
  #35
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yes! Ive become unsble to tolerate certain frequencies in that range especially if they are distorted . I feel pain and is a reason I stopped going to rock concerts ! I also stopped listening to music entirely at loud levels.. until I got a
passive equalizer which opened the universe of music listening again for me - and I went nuts :
got me a pair of 801/2’s and 700 watts per channel from a couple bridged adcoms - yeehaw! - its heaven .
Old 5th November 2018
  #36
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howseth's Avatar
Aumeo headphone device 2-week review

So here are my less than one month thoughts on the Aumeo Headphone device I bought a couple weeks ago:(I wrote this for Amazon product review page)

"The Aumeo is a unique EQ device for headphones - I have mild/moderate hearing loss (and tinnitus) - that is why I bought it. (If I had normal hearing I would not bother) I almost sent it back because of distortion - harsh sibilants in the highest frequencies when I followed the set up procedures/directions - however after I dialed back the upper frequencies - I now I can use this device pleasurably - It seems to enhance the lower and mid frequencies in a good way - and does help balance the sound between my left and right ears. Turning it on and off and the 'how to charge' instructions were confusing at first, took a while to figure it out. Also, the online set-up app was slow to connect (Used an iPad)- I even had a hard time finding it on the Apple App store! The packaging material was elegant - reminded me of Apple product packaging - and the little Aumeo seems sturdy enough - I hope it is - but I have used it less than a month.
I have used this device with wired headphones (Audio-Technica 50x) - connected to an audio interface. I have not used this as a blue tooth device with a smart phone. Can't comment on that."
Old 4 weeks ago
  #37
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I feel I have pretty good hearing using protection when in loud environments. Never had a professional test but audiocheck.net has told me I can hear up to 17kHz!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBackPages6 View Post
Never had a professional test but audiocheck.net has told me I can hear up to 17kHz!
The tests at a audiologist are limited. They only test between 250Hz and 8000Hz. I was at the university for audiologist today and did a test. Also was there 4 years ago.

As I suspected, my hearing is the same as 4 years ago. Above normal hearing on left ear. Meaning I could hear many of the frequencies in the test down to -10 dB. Unfortunately not so good on the right ear. Overall a 15dB drop compared to my left ear. Still within the normal range but on the low side.

Unfortunately I have periods of heavy tinnitus (especially in quiet rooms like the testing rooms at the audiologist university) in the 7k to 14k area. In other words I have a hard time separating the actual higher frequency sine signals from my tinnitus. I could only imagine the test results if I didn't have the horrible tinnitus.

I contribute the 15dB drop to being a young and stupid man standing to close to the club monitors in the 1990's when there seemed to be no regulations on how loud they the DJ's could play. I remember our ears where ringing crazy for minutes when we came out of the clubs.

I'm not holding my breath but I really hope there will be a cure or treatment for hearing loss and tinnitus soon.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
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You mean 15dbhl ? 15db below 0, this Is frankly nothing...

You may not have a very accurate hearing, but it would Never make You unable to make Great mixes with That.

I have a 15db loss on 4khz, and I still discern well every boost or dips in That area.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
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I have a theory about my left ear high freq loss: I'm 66, and used to live in Calif. I could only afford junker cars, so no AC. And it's always hot in CA. I probably drove half a million miles on those highways, visiting this and that girlfriend, etc. With the driver side window open. Screaming 18 wheelers, Harleys, and just the 70MPH air roaring in my left ear. Has to be it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I have a theory about my left ear high freq loss: I'm 66, and used to live in Calif. I could only afford junker cars, so no AC. And it's always hot in CA. I probably drove half a million miles on those highways, visiting this and that girlfriend, etc. With the driver side window open. Screaming 18 wheelers, Harleys, and just the 70MPH air roaring in my left ear. Has to be it.
Would another 1/2 million miles in the UK balance things? I'm in your age bracket and have severe hearing problems, so know it's no picnic. Mine is probably from 42 years in construction in addition to years in a very loud band.

Good luck with at least keeping what you have, my friend.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepino456 View Post
You mean 15dbhl ? 15db below 0, this Is frankly nothing...

You may not have a very accurate hearing, but it would Never make You unable to make Great mixes with That.
Yes. Thanks. Good to know that 15 db below 0 is not much. However the difference to me is very noticable especially when covering one ear. Left side sounds smooth and balanced and the bass response is much better. Right ear sounds a bit harsh and alot of lowend is missing. Even thow 15db below 0 might not sound much it’s noticable when my left ear hearing is much better.

But I guess it should not be a big problem for anyone with mild heaing loss as long as one uses good reference mixes?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdee View Post
Yes. Thanks. Good to know that 15 db below 0 is not much. However the difference to me is very noticable especially when covering one ear. Left side sounds smooth and balanced and the bass response is much better. Right ear sounds a bit harsh and alot of lowend is missing. Even thow 15db below 0 might not sound much it’s noticable when my left ear hearing is much better.

But I guess it should not be a big problem for anyone with mild heaing loss as long as one uses good reference mixes?
As long as you hear the frequencies, you can mix well, no worry.

The real problem comes when you don't hear at all frequencies (because of a dip) for example at a low volume.

Yes, referencing is good.


If you want to ensure your music sounds really good, you should collaborate with a mastering engineer.

Especially since most of them allow stems mastering, they could easily correct any issues very easily. It acts like a security for you.

For example, I have a hearing loss on the high frequencies (over 12Khz).


I have many ways to compensate for that, like referencing and using a frequency analyzer.

But, I still send my mix to a mastering engineer, he is very talented and IF there is any issue with the high frequencies, he corrects it very easily.



Having a ME is my way, the only difficulty is the price, but for me it is still affordable (80 euros for stems mastering), it makes me very relaxed because I KNOW that my music WILL sound good, and it is anyway an excellent thing to have someone else (with a different pair of ears and very exerced in that activity) to work on your tracks.



But anyway, 15db is not a big deal at all...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by achase4u View Post
Very brave of Tchad to even utter such a thing as his livlihood depends upon it and so many less informed individuals/potential clients could take it too seriously instead of his actual work and run the other way. Though I suppose since he has proven himself far and beyond, it's a bit safer. Still...

I personally wouldn't care whether my mixer was deaf or not - I just care about what comes out the other end.

I have hearing loss and tinnitus at age 33 due to growing up and playing drums at 12 yrs with either no ear protection or blasting insanely loud levels through my phones to jam with. Then I marched in marching band on snare and in drum corps with no hearing protection. I was actually pretty good on ears up until a few years ago. I think mixing too loud and playing electric guitar for some years was the nail in the coffin. I also have had some dental cleanings done with an ultrasonic water cleaner tool that is awful. I think it has caused me some damage. They hit this molar on the right side of my jaw and it sends vibration right to the core of my left ear and I go deaf in some midrange frequency somehow. It's happened twice now, so no more of that. I have also stupidly been around firearm reporting with no protection. According to the article linked above, the short report of a firearm can potentially equal a week of 90dba occupational noise. Yikes.

They actually don't consider it hearing loss if it's a deviation of up to 10 decibels. I've got loss down at 250hz for some reason which is probably 15-20db, though I can hear a gnat fart at 1 and 2k. My issue is mostly with the left ear which is 20db down at 4k(mild hearing loss) and -10db down at 4k on the right ear. They come back together around 8k at -10 I think.

The most annoying thing is stereo, but then again, someone needs to bring back some good mono mixes, so maybe I'll concentrate on that.

Another annoying problem I have due to having two different curves of hearing is diplacusis. I perceive pitch in my left ear as slightly different than my right. That's kind of interesting to sweep a sine wave from left to right...

I love mixing, recording and playing music so I refuse to stop, but I need to lower my levels and use protection. I am lucky with the amount of loss I am dealing with. If I manage to stop my loss from progressing(aside from age related) then by the time I am 60, my ears will just be normal again

There are also some pretty fantastic strides being made in the science fields in regards to hearing regeneration. They have found a way to regrow auditory hair cells in mice at MIT, if I recall. Then we enter a whole new mine field. If you mix just fine with hearing loss, would it mess you up and drive you crazy to hear perfectly again?

Don't stop doing what you love. Sure, I get very depressed about it and the ringing can drive me insane. The thought of yet another thing holding you back in such a long-shot of a dream job is an awful feeling. But whats worse to me than not being able to mix is not being able to listen to music I love again. I'd rather have my hearing and mix a little quieter than I want to.

Just know we are all in better company than we probably realize(there are more pro engineers than we know who have issues I am sure).
4k makes sense... we don't lose high end from excessive SPL we lose intelligibility/edge bet 4-6k..that's why people have trouble hearing people speak when they get loss in our mid high area ..we lose HF from age

i can tell when i get wax buildup... the best feeling in the world is after they pull out those nasty plugs
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
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No, we can actually lost high end from noise. It is my case and the case of many other (young !) producers I know
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
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howseth's Avatar
Pepino456 - Yes - using a mastering engineer (with reference tracks) for a final rendition is logical.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
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Get an audio-gram of your hearing loss. Then during mixing and tracking have an EQ on the buss and compensate based on your audio-gram just as a routine check. Keep in mind monitoring proximity is something to consider but it will give you an idea of what a person with nominal hearing your mix is going to hear.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
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howseth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Get an audio-gram of your hearing loss. Then during mixing and tracking have an EQ on the buss and compensate based on your audio-gram just as a routine check. Keep in mind monitoring proximity is something to consider but it will give you an idea of what a person with nominal hearing your mix is going to hear.
Actually I did do something like that in Logic Pro X last month using an Aux send- and Logic Pro Channel EQ's - I made separate EQ's for my left ear and my right ear based on Audiology test information. I routed all my tracks to this EQ adjustment (DAW 3&4 - Stereo headphone out) while also routing all the tracks to my Mix bus - but without this extra EQ compensation - (DAW 1&2).

I suppose I could also place the compensated EQ's on the Mix Bus - instead of the separate stereo headphone output - As you suggested - and then just turn the EQ on and off to check the difference. The - 'What is 'normal'.

The Aumeo Device I bought this month - is a little electronic device you plug into between the audio interface and the headphones - and is a similar EQ compensation scheme. However the EQ adjustments are programmed within the Aumeo device - rather than in Logic Pro X.

Which method works better? I don't know yet.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howseth View Post
Actually I did do something like that in Logic Pro X last month using an Aux send- and Logic Pro Channel EQ's - I made separate EQ's for my left ear and my right ear based on Audiology test information. I routed all my tracks to this EQ adjustment (DAW 3&4 - Stereo headphone out) while also routing all the tracks to my Mix bus - but without this extra EQ compensation - (DAW 1&2).

I suppose I could also place the compensated EQ's on the Mix Bus - instead of the separate stereo headphone output - As you suggested - and then just turn the EQ on and off to check the difference. The - 'What is 'normal'.

The Aumeo Device I bought this month - is a little electronic device you plug into between the audio interface and the headphones - and is a similar EQ compensation scheme. However the EQ adjustments are programmed within the Aumeo device - rather than in Logic Pro X.

Which method works better? I don't know yet.
This is fine if one is going to go through life with headphones on, but we hear with both ears - the sound is blended, not discrete.

Monitoring with headphones is very unnatural, pan something hard left or right and the opposite ear gets none of it - this is not the case with monitoring through speakers, where, as in real life, the sound is blended between the two ears - even when panned hard left or right.

I'm down about 1.5k in my right ear vs left - noticeable with headphones, but not when listening in real life environments, my two ears work together and my brain compensates for the difference.

My advice is to listen to reference mixes, through monitors - as long as your mixes sound like they could be in a playlist within the genres your working - you're good to go.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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howseth's Avatar
Yes, I should have said I also use monitors to listen to mixes. (though I prefer headphones to listen to music) My room is treated with bass traps - but still does not sound great.

Also, our two eyes may not be equal- And yes, the brain does blend together the view as a stereo visual image - though the dominant eye...Dominates! (Hey, I got eye problems too - but that's for a different forum: Opthoslutz? )

Last edited by howseth; 4 weeks ago at 09:08 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howseth View Post
So here are my less than one month thoughts on the Aumeo Headphone device I bought a couple weeks ago:(I wrote this for Amazon product review page)
Now my one month thoughts on the Aumeo device in use with my two main headphones:

I notice the Aumeo Device sounds far less pleasing with Sennheiser HD600 headphones - then with my ATH 50s headphones. I wonder if the higher impedance of the Sennheiser HD600 might be the cause? The HD600 need more juice. (my interface is an Audient ID22)

The ATH 50s do sound good with the Aumeo device. It helps to even out the sound imbalances, between my left and right ears (to some degree) (The Aumeo does that also with the HD 600 - but the sound overall seems less 'open' and the lower end frequencies much weaker).
Old 1 week ago
  #52
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Anyway I am selling my Audeara headphones, wich enable to test up to 32 frequencies per ear from 100hz to 20khz, and also hearing correction.

Contact me if you are interested !
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