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slate digital VCC vs HARRISON MIXBUS ?? Saturation Plugins
Old 26th December 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

slate digital VCC vs HARRISON MIXBUS ??

which will give us more of analog sound mix?
thank you
Old 26th December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
Does the Harrison mix buss even work with plugins? I thought it was a daw in itself. I've yet to use it, but was thinking of doing most of the work in logic or protools and then using it as a virtual sum to see what it does or just mixing with it. I'm looking at the great river hardware version...not too pricey if you have a lunchbox already but i could only imagine the work it would take to send a track one at a time :P It would be cool if ssl came out with a mock up of the e channel board with the g compressor. I like the massey tape head plug a lot for suttle warmth and I think there is a medium free version that's au/vst.
Old 26th December 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 

ENTIRELY different products!! Have you even researched this?

the VCC is a plugin which is inserted onto each channel in Pro Tools / Logic / Reaper etc; and then one onto the main bus, and together they will emulate the performance characteristics of an SSL, Neve, API or Trident.

Harrison MB is a complete DAW that would replace Pro Tools / Logic / Reaper etc; and has it's own 'VCC' built in to every channel and bus, emulating the performance characteristics of the Harrison consoles.

So depends whether you're happy changing DAWs or not...
Old 26th December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
Does the Harrison mix buss even work with plugins?
Yep accepts AUs.
Old 26th December 2010
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealbigd View Post
ENTIRELY different products!! Have you even researched this?

the VCC is a plugin which is inserted onto each channel in Pro Tools / Logic / Reaper etc; and then one onto the main bus, and together they will emulate the performance characteristics of an SSL, Neve, API or Trident.

Harrison MB is a complete DAW that would replace Pro Tools / Logic / Reaper etc; and has it's own 'VCC' built in to every channel and bus, emulating the performance characteristics of the Harrison consoles.

So depends whether you're happy changing DAWs or not...
i don't think it's out of line at all. it's a reasonable question. i would assume that the poster knew what type of product each was and was asking if anyone had used both and could compare the results of
1. mixing entirely in Harrison's Mixbus without using VCC
2. mixing in their usual DAW with VCC

or maybe just looking for any experience using a combination of the two.

?

not a strange question, both products seem to aim for a similar effect.

personally, i paid for the harrison but the hassle of learning the new workflow stopped me from ever actually mixing in it. i don't feel like they provided enough documentation at all. the whole product seems a little haphazard, it took a few versions before it even stopped crashing on startup ( i have a mac pro on 10.5.8). now it seems to work fine, but i don't got the patience for it. (you don't have to change DAWs either. the option exists to mix stems out of your usual DAW and import to Mixbus, or i believe you can route audio out of your own DAW straight into Harrison in real time.) i'm not an expert at all on it, it's something you gotta take a little time to figure out.

i've used the VCC also and tho i can't compare to MixBus, it has a nice effect when used on an entire mix. it's pretty subtle, but it does add something. i think my personal favorite is Airwindows with the Desk and Busscolors plugs. to me, these keep the most energy while also rounding off some of the digital ugliness. Sometimes i'm left feeling that the VCC gets a little cloudy. i get the same feeling working with the FGX. it's similar to the puffiness that i get when messing around with Ozone, but not as pronounced.

these are just my own weird impressions. basically tho, be prepared to do some homework if you decide to go with MixBus.
Old 26th December 2010
  #6
Deleted #157546
Guest
The Slate VCC's still dont' sound like anything to me.

Hurry up Slate!
Old 26th December 2010
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Kenton's Avatar
 

The Harrison doesn't have any "harmonic generating" non-linearity in the channel strips and is totally flat unless you bring in the EQ and/or HPF.

The Harrison's bus is also without any Frequency Response "sweetening" that the VCC employs. The Harrison Bus Saturation is pretty good - no crosstalk though (which the VCC does.).

The Harrison also has it's own pan law implementation which is (to my ears) nicer than some other stock DAWs.

The Harrison is like a good implementation of a current generation digital desk inside a DAW.
The VCC is like a good simulation of a 30 year old analog desk tacked onto a DAW.

K.
Old 26th December 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
The Slate VCC's still dont' sound like anything to me.

Hurry up Slate!
Do you ever regularly use an SSL / Neve etc?

Believe it or not, an SSL doesn't 'add' or 'subtract' from the sound much. You plug from HD straight to the monitor inputs or run through a blank channel strip and you don't get a night and day change.

If you put VCC on every channel and on the main bus, you will hear a small change (mainly when switching between desk types) but it's more how things react in a 'non-linear' manner (like analogue) than 'linear' (like digital). IE, the change you hear is not directly proportional to the change you see. If you bought VCC expecting to put it on the main bus and go from a poo mix to a supreme classic mix just because it added the 'SSL' sound you have gone to the wrong place. Or even a major change. This plug-in has suffered from the major misconception that running your mix through a desk with blank channel settings will provide a major change - it just won't. And that is why the plug-in doesn't either.

An 'intensity' knob could be cool though. 100% in the middle (follows performance of analogue console it emulates), 200% to the far right (twice the change of the normal) and 0% far left (no change), so you could control the power of the effect. Could put it in a 'settings' menu to keep it out of the way or something. I might e-mail Slate and tell them that.
Old 26th December 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :deth:roxxmeowserz View Post
Sometimes i'm left feeling that the VCC gets a little cloudy.
I remember Slate said that they will fix this for the retail version...
Old 26th December 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
I would never expect VCC to make a mix better but rather add a charecteristic. I wouldn't dream of using it till my mix was mostly done and mixed already. However there are a lot of newbies out there who think the reason everything is sucking is not having the right plugins. I aim for satisfacion right at the chain and carrry it from there. Crap in crap out means more than most think. A crap mix with tons of plugs is a lot more work than something that was tracked good...this is the reason I don't accept local tracks to mix from bedroom studios till I find out what is going on.
Old 26th December 2010
  #11
Deleted #157546
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealbigd View Post
Do you ever regularly use an SSL / Neve etc?

Believe it or not, an SSL doesn't 'add' or 'subtract' from the sound much. You plug from HD straight to the monitor inputs or run through a blank channel strip and you don't get a night and day change.

If you put VCC on every channel and on the main bus, you will hear a small change (mainly when switching between desk types) but it's more how things react in a 'non-linear' manner (like analogue) than 'linear' (like digital). IE, the change you hear is not directly proportional to the change you see. If you bought VCC expecting to put it on the main bus and go from a poo mix to a supreme classic mix just because it added the 'SSL' sound you have gone to the wrong place. Or even a major change. This plug-in has suffered from the major misconception that running your mix through a desk with blank channel settings will provide a major change - it just won't. And that is why the plug-in doesn't either.

An 'intensity' knob could be cool though. 100% in the middle (follows performance of analogue console it emulates), 200% to the far right (twice the change of the normal) and 0% far left (no change), so you could control the power of the effect. Could put it in a 'settings' menu to keep it out of the way or something. I might e-mail Slate and tell them that.
That comment was more on the fact that the VCC is STILL not available opposed to me not being able differentiate between using it and not using it.
Old 27th December 2010
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
That comment was more on the fact that the VCC is STILL not available opposed to me not being able differentiate between using it and not using it.
Ah sorry!

There are too many people on this forum with the mindset that I referred to that I assumed that's what you were on about.

You know what they say..

ASSUME makes an ASS of U and ME.
Old 27th December 2010
  #13
Deleted #157546
Guest
Thanks for keeping the thread alive, though
Old 27th December 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
I would never expect VCC to make a mix better but rather add a charecteristic. I wouldn't dream of using it till my mix was mostly done and mixed already. However there are a lot of newbies out there who think the reason everything is sucking is not having the right plugins. I aim for satisfacion right at the chain and carrry it from there. Crap in crap out means more than most think. A crap mix with tons of plugs is a lot more work than something that was tracked good...this is the reason I don't accept local tracks to mix from bedroom studios till I find out what is going on.
100% agreed. There is no such a thing as a magic plugin or magic hardware that will make a mix instantly better, with an exception of BBE 882. LOL.
Old 27th December 2010
  #15
Gear Maniac
Harrison does use Au's FX's just fine.
No Au instruments though.
I wish Harrison was a plug in AU though.
Works great though..
Old 28th December 2010
  #16
Lives for gear
 
vtone's Avatar
 

slate digital VCC vs HARRISON MIXBUS ??

I haven't used VCC yet and I quite like Slate products-- I use Trigger, Slate Drums, and FGX nearly every day.

However since I've been tracking and editing in PT, then mixing in MixBus, I don't feel an urge to mix in PT with VCC-- I'm happy with the sound and workflow of MixBus. Exporting a mix-ready PT session to MixBus is dead simple with Ardour XChange.

It's true the documentation is nonexistent. You need to get the Intro To MixBus DVD to get the most out of it.

I still get to use my fave plugs (pre or post fader!), but I have to say I use far less plugins since I've been using MixBus.

I never cared much for mixing in PT, Logic always sounded better to my ears. So the idea of mixing through a plugin on every channel seems a little bloated to me-- I prefer switching DAWs so I can put on mixing hat. I guess I find the MixBus GUI more inspiring.
Old 28th December 2010
  #17
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

For anyone that doesn't mind using a separate program Record is another very solid option, personally I like doing everything in one program which is why I love the Logic + VCC combo.
Old 28th December 2010
  #18
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vtone's Avatar
 

slate digital VCC vs HARRISON MIXBUS ??

Yeah, Record looks great. But you can't use your own plugins, right?
Old 28th December 2010
  #19
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Right, it doesn't support plugins.
Old 30th May 2013
  #20
Gear Nut
 

The VCC I am using and have stopped using on the mixbus because when enabled it adds way to much noise..
Old 30th May 2013
  #21
Gear Maniac
Mixbus is total crap!

IMHO HARRISON MIXBUS IS TOTAL ****. It never worked. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY. I contacted the makers they never responded. don't get it. besides wouldn't you rather have a REAL console instead of some digitized one? Also the slate plugin you mentioned, is pretty lame as well. I stick with OTB gear mainly anyway. just my two cents. or three.
Old 31st May 2013
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Ya... I'll switch to a real SSL console too when they cost $129.
Old 31st May 2013
  #23
Gear Nut
 

I've used both. Some of my favourite mixes were achieved by bussing tracks out of Logic with Jack into Harrison MixBus. But the workflow was a PITA especially as Mixbus' routing was flaky. Loved the sound though!

So now I use VCC. which I think is really great.

Different products of course, but workflow/ability to recall easily has won me over for the time being at least.
Old 31st May 2013
  #24
Lives for gear
Sonically i really love Mixbus, but the way they deal with plugins is a real mess!!!
Old 21st June 2013
  #25
Recently bought MixBus
Did three mixes, 1 was OTB through my Soundtracs IL3632, 2 was ITB in MixBus, and 3 was routing the ITB mix from MixBus out into my Soundtracs Console.
The OTB mix and the ITB mix were very close, with the OTB mix having more definition of individual instruments/voice as well as a deeper stage, and the ITB having a slightly wider stage and overall more analog sound/eq curve!! The ITB Mix Routed out through my console was the best of the three, simply incredible sound. I think it has a lot to do with the tape emulation. The tape emulation in MixBus is spot on.
It's also clear to me is that MixBus sounds better than Logic Pro and Reaper. Haven't used PT in years so I can't comment. However the editing in Reaper is so nice and easy to work with, I don't see myself switching to editing in MixBus. But I definitely see myself switching to mixing in MixBus. It really sounds incredible, and is very intuitive to mix in.

DP
Old 24th July 2013
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

I bought mixbus just for the workflow. I cut my teeth in Ardour. You can easily use your own plugins, I ran into no problems at all with it, you do need to know the difference between mono and stereo plugins though, mono tracks can't have stereo plugins, stereo tracks can't have mono fx.

I'm no computer genius but im pretty sure what they did was have the eq and compressors coded into the signal at different logical points rather then just having an area in the code where its all run through a chain if dsp at the end. You still have the fx area as well so you can add in any of your other fx plugins as well. I know vst is supported, pretty sure au as well and LADSPA as well.

I use Reaper, Ableton Live 8, Sonar x 2, Cubase 5 and 6 and Mixbus is buy far my favourite to
mix on with Reaper as a close second.

Softsynths don't work with mixbus, no midi support but mix bus isn't really a creation platform but you could easily record with it. They should be getting midi support with version 3.

Sent from my LG-E617G
Old 9th September 2013
  #27
Gear Guru
Using Mixbus with Soundtoys VCC UBK plugs. Works fine. Haven't really dug into it as a DAW but, take a mix and just run it through Mixbus for kicks. I think you'll be surprised about how good it sounds. After all the analogue vs digital talk on the Slate threads, I'd be interested in some of those guys talking about this like the VCC or VBC, since it really gives dimension and sophistication to the sound. By the way, I like the VCC a lot, however this is literally another dimension. For the price, it's insane not to buy just as a finishing tool methinks. If I was to give my impression of what VCC does, it's giving that nice glue and tightness to the sound with some color. Mixbus gives a 3-D presence and a real big feel, if that makes sense.....
Old 10th September 2013
  #28
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Apart from a small amount of distortion on the master buss which cannot be disabled (you can bypass the master buss, though), Mixbus, by default, adds nothing to the original signal.
Old 10th September 2013
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Apart from a small amount of distortion on the master buss which cannot be disabled (you can bypass the master buss, though), Mixbus, by default, adds nothing to the original signal.
That's sort of true. But all of the busses (including the master bus) have tape saturation on them, and you're encouraged to drive them a little bit. It definitely warms up the sound.

Also, the EQ & compressors on every channel have a slightly different approach than most stock EQ's, not to mention entirely different settings between the track & buss EQ's. Those are mostly about workflow, but they are kind of unique. Plus, I never feel like I need to add anything into the plugin inserts - just mix.

So it's not the engine, per se, as much as the way you work with the software that gives you different results. I used to really underestimate how much workflow affects the finished product. Mixbus kind of changed my mind about that. It takes me in directions that I may not have gone using another DAW for mixing. That may be good or bad, but I usually like it.
Old 10th September 2013
  #30
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFRfan View Post
That's sort of true.
It is not "sort of true". It is true.
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