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Harrison Mixbus and Analogue vs Digital DAW Software
Old 27th November 2009
  #31
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I grabbed a copy yesterday just for the heck of it and I agree... it sounds pretty good. My studio system is PC but I have a portable Macbook system that I tried it on.

Very nice.
Old 27th November 2009
  #32
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robot gigante's Avatar
I mixed five songs in it before I posted about Mixbus, and Hr. Holmes you on just hearing it are able to make that assessment? Okay...

Mr. Holmes, I actually already did exactly what you said: I had done a rough mix of a pop track in Pro Tools a couple weeks before, using saturation plugins as I usually do. Mixed maybe eight songs in between. I did another rough mix in Mixbus spending the same amount of time without importing the PT version to reference it. Leveled them the same to compare them properly (oddly enough they were pretty close level wise to begin with, I did gainstage them almost the same except for the parallel routing).

Night and day. Everyone I showed them to said it. One producer has had a few billboard dance #1's and I trust his opinion. The Mixbus mix was more 3d and I was able to get the mix a lot more full in the mids and dial in the low end better.

I even used most of the same reverb and modulation plugins, and I used only the Mixbus EQ, the Mixbus comps and just a couple instances of other compressors.

And for 80 bucks- what??

Maybe it was because I was able to get more done in the same amount of time but you can't deny the effect of the sound of it (which also affected the way I mixed).

Doubtful I will get permission to post the track... but that was my experience.

You're not just sore that this little fella might perform as well as your pricey DAW and plugin suites, are ya? Hey, me too... it's not without its problems but it is pretty cool. I like the open source model a lot better than what I've been experiencing from Digi too. If your setup works well enough for you than great... PT was killing me with the routing, gainstaging, stacking up plugins, this works better for me.
Old 27th November 2009
  #33
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
I mixed five songs in it before I posted about Mixbus, and Hr. Holmes you on just hearing it are able to make that assessment? Okay...

Mr. Holmes, I actually already did exactly what you said: I had done a rough mix of a pop track in Pro Tools a couple weeks before, using saturation plugins as I usually do. Mixed maybe eight songs in between. I did another rough mix in Mixbus spending the same amount of time without importing the PT version to reference it. Leveled them the same to compare them properly (oddly enough they were pretty close level wise to begin with, I did gainstage them almost the same except for the parallel routing).

Night and day. Everyone I showed them to said it. One producer has had a few billboard dance #1's and I trust his opinion. The Mixbus mix was more 3d and I was able to get the mix a lot more full in the mids and dial in the low end better.

I even used most of the same reverb and modulation plugins, and I used only the Mixbus EQ, the Mixbus comps and just a couple instances of other compressors.

And for 80 bucks- what??

Maybe it was because I was able to get more done in the same amount of time but you can't deny the effect of the sound of it (which also affected the way I mixed).

Doubtful I will get permission to post the track... but that was my experience.

You're not just sore that this little fella might perform as well as your pricey DAW and plugin suites, are ya? Hey, me too... it's not without its problems but it is pretty cool. I like the open source model a lot better than what I've been experiencing from Digi too. If your setup works well enough for you than great... PT was killing me with the routing, gainstaging, stacking up plugins, this works better for me.
No matter what works I would love to hear the two mixes!!!
I do not say I am not open minded.... I just gave my impression away....
Old 20th December 2009
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
Ijustmake-Beats's Avatar
 

I do a lot of mixing in Metric Halo's 2D mixer w/ a couple of outboard bits and pieces thrown in. I'm getting tempted to order the MixBus though considering all the generally positive reports.

I will say, ultimately what I'd like to know is how it compresses...

Whoever is able to make a compressor that can gives drums a sharp, clear edge as well as a full, thick body will get my money. I want to make my drums sound like elephants stomping through the jungle, I want the air to move when I'm listening back.

Achieving this might also have a lot to do with the summing too I suspect, but still...

Even when an ITB mix of mine sounds decent initially it ultimately folds real quick when out through some basic . It still seems like only hardware can make a mix 3D in it's depth and give it that really solid body.

The MH 2D card I personally feel is a big step up from Logic, but it just isn't getting me the same sound as my reference material yet. Be interesting to know how far the Harrison goes though, especially in the compression department.
Old 20th December 2009
  #35
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProducerBoy View Post
It's too bad that more people can't seem to realize what these breakthroughs mean for music.
HTML Code:
 MixBus sounds so much better than other DAWs, IMO.



Afaict, music as a unifying force in culture has pretty much faded, and the connection with the accessibility of digital production and distribution technology is inescapable.

The law of supply and demand is equally inescapable. Increase the supply of music 10-millionfold, watch the value plummet; and I don't just mean economic value, I mean personal and social value.

All music sounds the way it does not because of the gear involved but because of the skills of the creator(s). Skills in writing, arranging, performing, orchestrating, tracking, processing, mixing.

Respectfully, I submit that a more pleasing sounding daw mix buss means nothing for music. Sound, maybe --- *maybe* --- but not music.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 20th December 2009
  #36
It sounds the closest yet to a good console, it does not sound as good as a good console.

But if you're going for an OTB console type of sound for your mix, it does it faster and better than using PTs or Logic or something alone IMO.

For the guy who said that no one who uses the Mixbus has ever mixed on a console... wtf. First of all, not true at all. Second, a pretty lame comment since I'm sure many here including myself have mixed on consoles, some very nice ones like SSL 4000G and Trident 80B (not Toft). Mixbus doesn't sound as good I don't think. But it sounds good.
Old 20th December 2009
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
The law of supply and demand is equally inescapable. Increase the supply of music 10-millionfold, watch the value plummet; and I don't just mean economic value, I mean personal and social value.

Gregory Scott - ubk
Yes. Mixbus is nice and I'm going to use it, but UBK is right about this basic fact. People cite piracy, bad digital sound, iPods, record company malfeasance and all kinds of other things to explain why the value of music has been declining. But this is the main reason.
Old 21st December 2009
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Afaict, music as a unifying force in culture has pretty much faded, and the connection with the accessibility of digital production and distribution technology is inescapable.

The law of supply and demand is equally inescapable. Increase the supply of music 10-millionfold, watch the value plummet; and I don't just mean economic value, I mean personal and social value.

All music sounds the way it does not because of the gear involved but because of the skills of the creator(s). Skills in writing, arranging, performing, orchestrating, tracking, processing, mixing.

Respectfully, I submit that a more pleasing sounding daw mix buss means nothing for music. Sound, maybe --- *maybe* --- but not music.


Gregory Scott - ubk
ubk, I agree. Without a doubt in my mind.

Mixbus is just a tool. It won't make the "music" better. It will sound better perhaps, but it won't make the music better.

I equate it in some ways to being any kind of skilled craftsman. Just cause you can go buy a hacksaw, doesn't mean you can build a beautiful desk or chair or house for that matter. Just because you own a guitar or a 1073 doesn't mean you'll be a good guitarist or a good engineer.

No... really. Even though SO many products are geared at selling us this very idea.

"Don't practice, this will give you the shortcut to sounding good without needing to really work at getting better."

And don't get me started how people learning music have lost respect for the craft, not working to get better at the skills needed to make music.

And no... if it's bad music it doesn't get "fixed in the mix." It just becomes crappy and disposable.
Old 21st December 2009
  #39
Here for the gear
 

After I purchased Mixbus, I took a song I had done in Logic, removed my "vintage" plugins (mostly the Fairchild 670, Pultec EQP-1A, and Steve Massey's TapeHead plugins) from the summing bus then loaded the .wav file in Mixbus.

What took me about 3+ hours to sculpt in Logic, took about 20 minutes in Mixbus. The 2 versions sounded pretty close to me. I'm not saying one program is faster or sounds better than the other, but I got the sound I was looking for quickly (I spent so much time upfront with Logic, I may have made choices the second time with Mixbus based on what I did previously without realizing it).

To me it sounds as analog as any DAW software I've ever used without as much effort.
Old 22nd December 2009
  #40
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
All music sounds the way it does not because of the gear involved but because of the skills of the creator(s). Skills in writing, arranging, performing, orchestrating, tracking, processing, mixing.

Respectfully, I submit that a more pleasing sounding daw mix buss means nothing for music. Sound, maybe --- *maybe* --- but not music.
Thats the right spirt for creating something.
WOW GREAT WORDS!!!
Old 22nd December 2009
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
Ijustmake-Beats's Avatar
 

Just a question for MixBus users....

Can I route the channels or busses in the MixBus to the outputs of my soundcard in order to take advantage of my external gear?

Also, how will the signal return into the MixBus, is each channel on the MixBus mixer also able to receive signals directly from the inputs of my soundcard to integrate into the mix?

My Metric Halo 2D mixer does all of that stuff fairly easily, just thought I'd check to see if MixBus can also.

Thanks...
Old 22nd December 2009
  #42
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Yes, you can intergrate your hardware with Mixbus ..... haven't done it yet so maybe someone else can chime on the actual process ...
Old 22nd December 2009
  #43
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Respectfully, I submit that a more pleasing sounding daw mix buss means nothing for music. Sound, maybe --- *maybe* --- but not music.


Gregory Scott - ubk
This goes for any platform ! IMO Harrison Mixbus is the best hammer you can buy at the moment, the rest of the work is up to you ...
Old 22nd December 2009
  #44
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Kenton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ijustmake-Beats View Post
Just a question for MixBus users....

Can I route the channels or busses in the MixBus to the outputs of my soundcard in order to take advantage of my external gear?

Also, how will the signal return into the MixBus, is each channel on the MixBus mixer also able to receive signals directly from the inputs of my soundcard to integrate into the mix?

My Metric Halo 2D mixer does all of that stuff fairly easily, just thought I'd check to see if MixBus can also.

Thanks...
Yes, you can set up an insert on a channel or bus which will do exactly that. You can also 'ping' the external hardware to determine and compensate for the latency.

Otherwise you'd have to use "Jack" but you'd miss out on the latency compensation.
You can route soundcard inputs to channels quite easily.

K.
Old 22nd December 2009
  #45
Gear Maniac
 
Ijustmake-Beats's Avatar
 

Fantastic... regarding the ability to route to external gear that is....
Old 22nd December 2009
  #46
Gear Head
 

Hi, since lots of people are asking for files to A/B, and that I had no feedback about this in other threads,

here we are :

2 mixdowns of the same track (fat electro remix), to A/B if some are interested.

(UPDATED LINKS)

ableton live mixdown : Bump Monstre Remix 171209 Ableton mixdown.wav
harrison mixbus mixdown : Spank Rock - Bump (Monstre Jumo's Hadgehog Edition).wav


the first is an ableton mixdown I just re-worked the same way as HMB's mixdown (named "hadgehog edition" because "harrison" resembles "hérisson", that, in french, means "hedgehog"), trying to match the sound I made in the other mixdown, made in HMB. (but using no saturation plug or else, I'm really poor in 3rd party plugs)

the noticeable difference is that I added a little reverb on the claps and hihats in the HMB mix, that is not present in the ableton mix.

I made no panning stuff in either mixes. the sidechain compression is a very little bit different, since I "sidechain-compressed" the stems individually with slightly different values before importing them in HMB. but still really really slightly different values. (bass sub, bass grungy stuff, other synth sounds and the wiiiiish rise)

A/Bing the 2 isn't so much astonishing, at the end. I'm a bit disappointed, and some of you may laugh at that

anyway, I still can hear a difference in the low end and low mids, HMB's seeming more warm on this side, but that just may be some placebo and/or differences in EQing.

So here is the point, the difference is not so huge. I'm still prefering the HMB mix anyway (placebo?)

HMB still is really good for me as it allows me to get away from live and the arrangement, then beeing finaaly able to FINISH my tracks.

The mixing workflow is for me really better in HMB, since everything is handy, ready there in the console strips. and getting away from the arrangement of the "source DAW" and mixing it in HMB's console is for me very valuable

tell me what you think of these 2 mixdowns, you may dislike the musical genre and choices, I'm only hobbyist electronic music maker without any pretention

it's wav 24bits/44khz files, with no "mastering", so the volume is low, but I tried to have the 2 files at nearly the same. it peaks around -6, and runs around -10db. (approx. 80mb each. the ableton mix has more silence before and after the song)

cheers




EDIT:

I tried to make some sidechain compression in HMB but was unable to route audio into the sidechain compressor plugin (slim slider free AU, works very well for gig or smooth ducking effects), it's easy in ableton live, but how can one do this in HMB??? (I can route audio to other audio tracks , mixbusses, but not to the plug either in an audio track or a mixbus....?)

I also tried the "native" sidechain abitity provided by HMB, but it isn't really as noticeable as with the plugin in live... I can't find the option "look for sidechain" to enable, as stated in the much-too-light-quickstart pdf...

where is it????
Old 23rd December 2009
  #47
Gear Head
 
stackatrack's Avatar
 

Digital Smigital

Digital summing is like waiting in line for Dumbo the Flying Elephant ride. Analog sums close to the speed of light..especially if there are no caps in the path.
How can you sum via DSP and expect it to sound like mixing on a real console ?
Old 23rd December 2009
  #48
Gear Head
 
stackatrack's Avatar
 

BTW

for your reference
Attached Thumbnails
Harrison Mixbus and Analogue vs Digital-dumbo_1_998.jpg  
Old 23rd December 2009
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrejumo View Post
I also tried the "native" sidechain abitity provided by HMB, but it isn't really as noticeable as with the plugin in live... I can't find the option "look for sidechain" to enable, as stated in the much-too-light-quickstart pdf...
There's no way (currently) to route audio into sidechain inputs of a plugin.
To turn on the sidechain in the Mixbuses, you click the tiny square button under the fader which launches the popup channelstrip dialog. There should be a button labeled "sidechain on".

Hope this helps,
Ben Loftis
Harrison Consoles
Old 24th December 2009
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
Ijustmake-Beats's Avatar
 

monstrejumo - thanks for the loops....

It's true that I also couldn't hear a whole lot of differences between the mixes.... btw, did you use any bus compression (drum bus or 2-bus) on the Harrison mix?

Analogue can't honestly hold it's place at the top forever, with so many companies putting money into digital mixing research something's gotta give eventually. When there's a flat-out significant breakthrough there I'll be first in line.
Old 24th December 2009
  #51
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Kenton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stackatrack View Post
Digital summing is like waiting in line for Dumbo the Flying Elephant ride. Analog sums close to the speed of light..especially if there are no caps in the path.
How can you sum via DSP and expect it to sound like mixing on a real console ?
I disagree - with digital summing, it's more like waiting in line for "Space Mountain".
Analogue is like waiting for the parade.

On second thoughts, I think the analogy is a bit Mickey Mouse.

Merry Christmas.
K.
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