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Please help with buzzing P1!! Dynamics Plugins
Old 17th December 2006
  #31
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Papercut, doesn't sound too good. Have you tried grounding the chasis to a water pipe or your other gear yet? The extension cord put you further away from the building's ground and reinforces the concern that the building's AC is shabby.

And a big question....are you always doing the tests with a mic cable without a mic on it? If so please use a mic that you know is OK on the cable while testing as a real world test. Putting an unterminated cable out there is asking for noise. I know you're doing it for a reason but it may complicate any results.

There are tests that I would still do but (after spending the time to put them in this post) I've decided to edit them out 'cause you gotta be careful with AC and I don't want to see anybody get fried.....I do these things fairly regularly but I'm old and crazy. Don't want to get you hurt, papercut. You may have to bring in someone with the test gear and knowledge to determine what's up with your building's AC.
best of luck
Old 17th December 2006
  #32
Gear Head
 

Thanks for your thoughtfulness, Rick. I don't want to get stike either. It'll probably happen to me if I tried it since I'm not too keen with electricity.

No, I haven't tried out the grounding test yet. I need to get some wires for that first.

For all the tests I've been doing recently, it's been with a mic, so all the cables are terminated.

I just tried out the P1 at my friend's house, and it works as expected (without any buzz, that is).

I guess I need to contact my landlord to see if it'd be ok to get an electrician to do some work in this building... Who should pay for that? Me or the landlord?
Old 17th December 2006
  #33
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Well, since you're all good at your friends, your problem is definately in the AC. Either poor ground or dirty AC. To make matters worse, it sounds like you have an RF problem to boot.

Some locations are destined for continual problems, yet there are things that can help out, though not solve, the problems.

Being in an apt on the 3rd floor in a building you don't own, you've got a problem. I doubt your landlord would do major electrical work to the building without a better reason than "my mic pre buzzes". LOL But you can always ask. That's probably the first place to start. My second choice would be to get a power conditioner and/or balanced power from a dealer that will let you return it if it doesn't solve your problems. The third option....look for a new place.

There are reasons that studios put lead in the walls, build giant farady cages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage) in the buildings and spend big bucks to clean up the AC they get. It's all about location (how close to rf interference, the ground in the building, and how dirty the AC in the building is) and how much money and effort you want to throw at it.

Best of luck.

bp
Old 17th December 2006
  #34
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Being in an apt on the 3rd floor in a building you don't own, you've got a problem. I doubt your landlord would do major electrical work to the building without a better reason than "my mic pre buzzes". LOL But you can always ask. That's probably the first place to start. My second choice would be to get a power conditioner and/or balanced power from a dealer that will let you return it if it doesn't solve your problems. The third option....look for a new place.
I went and got a Furman PF Pro R before I read your post. I figured I'll return it if it doesn't fix the buzz. It didn't do a thing.

Electrician, it is.
Old 17th December 2006
  #35
Gear Head
 

I have tried grounding the chasis, and buzz persists.

Old 19th December 2006
  #36
Gear Head
 

It worked!!! but not in my room.

I contacted my landlord about possible electric work, and he suggested I try the garage first. I told him I couldn't find an outlet before, but there's a hidden one. And guess what? No buzz!!!

Now, how would I get this thing to not buzz in my apartment?
Old 19th December 2006
  #37
Gear Head
 

I got a little too excited with the no buzz thing, I think. I calmed down a bit, tested it again, and the buzz is still there. But it is incredibly faint.
Old 19th December 2006
  #38
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Papercut,

today I am feeling your pain:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/99817-geffel-users-mic-gurus-need-help-problem-mics.html

After all the tricks, pulling rabbits out of the hat, checking and double checking, my problem persists. My problem is room location oriented - EVEN WITH ALL POWER IN THE BUILDING SHUT DOWN!!!!

Go figure. Have you tried different microphones? Keep trying! I'm not giving up yet!

Bill
Old 20th December 2006
  #39
Gear Head
 

drBill,

Sorry to hear about your Geffels. That sucks pretty bad. All those Mics... I am sorry I can't give any help. Your problem seems more perplexing than mine.

I'm not giving up either. Good luck, and hopefully both of our voodoo problems will be fixed somehow.
Old 13th January 2007
  #40
Gear Head
 

Update

Here's an update to my buzzing problem. It gets very weird. Let me know what you guys think..

First off, the electrician wasn't able to fix it. It was a devastating feeling. So unfortunately I had to return the P1.

But I had to somehow make it possible for me to record here, and I remembered ZFire saying a wall wart may isolate the noise, and decided give it a shot. I've tried everything else, so why not, right? I got myself an RNP. And guess what? The buzz is not there most of the time.

With the P1 and GR, the buzz was there all the time, but if I held the mic cable just right, it'd be buzz free (but a millimeter of movement will re-introduce the buzz, making it unusable for recording). With the RNP, it's the opposite. It's buzz free most of the time, unless if the mic cable is held a certain way or crumpled up. In other words, it's much harder for the buzz to be in the signal, which is good. Finally!! I have a workable setup! But wait...

If I touch the gain knob of the RNP, the buzz comes back. Huh? It's pretty loud (not as loud as the P1/GR, but loud enough to be unusable for recording). Let go of the gain, and buzz goes away. Strange. I had my girl touch the gain knob, and it buzzes, but it is hardly noticeable. It is faint enough that you may not notice it at first. My girl is much shorter, lighter, and way less dense than me, so I thought that may be a reason. But it gets weirder. If I touch the gain knob with my left hand, the buzz is only about half as loud as if I touched it with my right hand. I tried this over 50 times, and it's re-produceable 100% of the time. WTF?

The good news is that it is fairly easy to get a buzz free recording session finally.

One thing I forgot. All the above explanation is with a 15ft. Mogami Quad Shield XLR-XLR. I have a more consumer (maybe around $15) shorter (maybe 6ft or so) cable, and the buzz is much louder with the shorter cable, and much more difficult to make go away. So I'm assuming the better shielding in the Mogami is giving me less noise.

Last edited by papercut; 15th January 2007 at 03:53 PM.. Reason: clarification
Old 13th January 2007
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
Nerve Nickels's Avatar
 

I've got a new LSR28p powered speaker doing the buzz thing...

So Far, I tried running a ground wire and an xhum...no such luck.

At Least my Problem is on the way out, not in... sucks

I notice it changes and goes faint at times...

I use a monster powerbar 1100 for 'clean power'. I do notice the voltage light fluctuating at times...

I rent, top floor and in a old building...
Old 13th January 2007
  #42
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerve Nickels View Post
I've got a new LSR28p powered speaker doing the buzz thing...

So Far, I tried running a ground wire and an xhum...no such luck.

At Least my Problem is on the way out, not in... sucks

I notice it changes and goes faint at times...

I use a monster powerbar 1100 for 'clean power'. I do notice the voltage light fluctuating at times...

I rent, top floor and in a old building...
Sorry to hear that. Do you have other powered monitors that buzz, or are the LSR28p's the only ones that give you the problem?

You don't have any buzz problems on the way in?

Hang in there, man.
Old 15th January 2007
  #43
Gear Head
 

It really feels good to be able to record again.
I gotta say, this little ugly box (RNP) sounds good and even the ugliness is growing on me. I am impressed.

Do you think using the RNP in this dirty power apartment can damage it?
Old 15th January 2007
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
Nerve Nickels's Avatar
 

Hey papercut, glad you're up and running again...

I am thinking that someone in my building is using a dimmer and that's what is causing the noise ???

Sometimes it is so quiet it does not bother me at all...Other times it sounds like a bug light...

These are the only powered speakers I have, my first, and to be honest, my last...Nothing else gives me problems.

I was having RF problems with a guitar pedal or two...but some copper tape, 1/4" ferrites, and GS-6 Canare cables solved that...

now to find cure for the Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Old 15th January 2007
  #45
Gear Head
 

does your buzz sound anything like mine (sound sample in original post)?
Old 15th January 2007
  #46
Gear Head
 

Although the RNP has brought to me a workable situation, this whole buzz is still driving me nuts.

Does anyone have any idea why more buzz is introduced when I touch the gain with my right hand compared to the left? This is absolutely mind boggling. I've also found that the buzz increases when I simply touch the box of the RNP.

Since it seems very unlikely that this problem can be fixed at the source (power), do you think it can be helped with a different mic cable? I ask because the amount of buzz depends mostly on cable placement (and me touching the knobs, ofcourse, but I won't be touching those during tracking, while the cables may get moved around unintentionally). I have a quad shield Mogami Gold XLR-XLR now. Anything better than this in the shelding department that might be worth it for me to try?
Old 6th July 2007
  #47
Here for the gear
 

I have the same problem using my
Royer 121 or AKG 414 to Wunder PA 4 to DIGI 002
I thought is was a power issue but i have a sound devices field recorded which is battery powered. when i plug the mic strait into it i get a buzz that sounds a lot like yours. its driving me crazy that i have all of these nice pieces of gear that i worked my ass off for and they sound like BZZZZZZZ. whats funny is if i go strait into the 002 there's no problem, freaky stuff. tried lifts, conditioners, even battery power. my problem must be radio interference.... it's always WAY worse with the royers, but i know its not the mic because i have 2 of them..
AHHHH!!!! well i'll let you know if i fix it...
Old 6th July 2007
  #48
Here for the gear
 

Update. Brought in an electrician buddy who says my power is all good. so it must be radio interference... it's only unacceptable when i use my royers so i think the solution is to just get rid of those mics.
Condensers take less gain to get a proper level, therefore less noise. other than blow up the local radio tower doesn't seem like i have many opitions...
Old 7th July 2007
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Brian M. Boykin's Avatar
Hope this helps,

I read most of this thread, up to the point of the "closer to ground pun" and the last few post's. I thought I would post this for everyones future reference. My studio is in a seperate building from my house. The building was originally unpowered. I added a sub panel which is inside the control room. I have a ground that runs back to the main panel, which is at the meter loop. I also ran a ground from the sub panel right outside the building. I drove a grounding rod (8ft) into the ground and attatched the second ground wire to that. I worked for an electrician one winter and he is the one who told me to do this. I'm pretty sure this works because all the other circuits draw their ground from this same point. If their is a sub panel in your appartment you might want to try this. It could help alleviate future problems. To do it, run a solid ground wire from the grounding bus bar in the panel outside to a grounding rod in the ground. Get an electrician to do it. The p1 may not be the only piece of gear you will have problems with and it sounds like the problem still persists, just not as bad.

Another note to make is that the only time I have had a problem is when I bought a MOTU 2408 mkii. To solve the problem I changed all the pcb mount 1/4" jacks with chassis mount jacks. The ground on most pcb mount jacks enter into the ground traces on the pcb, so any noise that the shield intercepts is dumped into the ground of the pcb. If you switch to chassis mounts the ground is terminated at entry into the chassis and the ground does not enter the pcb. Also the chassis becomes a firewall against emf and rfi. You can only do this with balanced equipement. By doing this I lost the ability to use the 2408 with unbalanced signals. Also, none of my balanced cables have lifted shields. If I buy a piece of gear and it causes noise I fix the gear, I don't lift sheilds. This is known as the pin 1 problem. Had I built my studio 10 to 15 years ago all the sheilds would be lifted on the input side, that's how noise issues were solved. So if your reading this and your sheilds are lifted, leave them, it's working, it's not wrong just a different way of solving the problem and less protection against emf and rfi.

Take the advice of me and the countless others that posted on this thread and learn about proper grounding. That way when you add gear you can check it against a clean system and not spend unneeded time tracking down the offending gear. Guess how I know that??? Google is your friend.
Old 22nd July 2007
  #50
Here for the gear
 

My electrician buddy and I ran a sub panel with it's own ground rod right outside the studio and this seriously made a HUGE difference. Even amps that used to buzz are silent! Every once in a while when my pre's a gained up I can hear radio (RF) but its so much better than before. I'm going to do a star (chassis) ground next and I'll let Y'all know if that takes care of the RF.
Old 22nd July 2007
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Brian M. Boykin's Avatar
I live in Central Texas and we usually have long dry summers. If you do were you live another trick is to keep the area around the grounding rod wet. Run the hose on it for a little bit if you notice the noise floor comming up. I learned that trick from my electric dog fence. If the ground around the box was not kept wet the dogs would start jumping the fence because the ground was not grounding properly.

Brian
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