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Audio interfaces and their AD/DA chips LISTED
Old 7th February 2020
  #481
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zmix's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antti H View Post
The most likely cause here is mismatch in the rectifier circuit of the compressor. A more relevant question is just how high are the even order harmonics in a HW compressor? Because if they're 40 dB below the odd order ones, you aren't going to hear them since they will be masked by the signal and odd harmonics. On the other hand if they're 20 dB below the odd order ones, they might already be audible. There's also no reason this couldn't be modelled in the plugins.
Not a rectifier mismatch, you can easily test this yourself. In the case of the SSL quad compressor it has a precision rectifier that uses 1% or better matched resistors. The even and odd harmonics follow a perfect exponential decay curve.

Here is a NEVE 2254 for example, as you can see it has a perfect distribution of even and odd harmonics. If you turn off the compression there is a very low level 2nd harmonic from the single sided class output amp and very low 3rd harmonic from the transformers. The harmonics in the spectral plot below are a result of the gain reduction mechanism itself, and are what give the compressor it's tonal character, no plugin compressors do this:

Audio interfaces and their AD/DA chips LISTED-gap-2254-3-4-100hz-12dbfs.jpg
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Audio interfaces and their AD/DA chips LISTED-gap-2254-3-4-100hz-12dbfs.jpg  
Old 7th February 2020
  #482
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Have you tested vs. the Lindell plugin from Plugin Alliance? I think that's a great sounding plugin compressor.
Old 7th February 2020
  #483
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmix View Post
Not a rectifier mismatch, you can easily test this yourself. In the case of the SSL quad compressor it has a precision rectifier that uses 1% or better matched resistors. The even and odd harmonics follow a perfect exponential decay curve.

Here is a NEVE 2254 for example, as you can see it has a perfect distribution of even and odd harmonics. If you turn off the compression there is a very low level 2nd harmonic from the single sided class output amp and very low 3rd harmonic from the transformers. The harmonics in the spectral plot below are a result of the gain reduction mechanism itself, and are what give the compressor it's tonal character, no plugin compressors do this:

Great image of exactly what is going on - thanks for your effort to post. Here you can really see a what a good capture range is! kudos
Old 14th February 2020
  #484
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hebjam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Sound Devices Mix Pre are FANTASTIC for music recording, beautiful sounding and easy to use. I wish mine were a MK II. Bought in just before the update.
Hey monkeyxx,

I bought and re-sold the MixPre 3. It was really nice but had a bit of high end sibilance , slightly less natural sound than my Motu 624.

Just curious, as I never tried it, but have you ever run an external pre into the aux in? Just wondering if that sounds better than running into the XLR.
Old 14th February 2020
  #485
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hebjam View Post
Hey monkeyxx,

I bought and re-sold the MixPre 3. It was really nice but had a bit of high end sibilance , slightly less natural sound than my Motu 624.

Just curious, as I never tried it, but have you ever run an external pre into the aux in? Just wondering if that sounds better than running into the XLR.
I've tried running a Tascam UH-7000 into the MixPre

It sounds "slightly better" but it's a very subtle difference.

In my opinion, both are gorgeous sounding front ends.

If you were listening to the DAC of the MixPre, I am less impressed with its DAC than its front end. I use the MixPre mainly for capture and do most of my mixing and monitoring on my DAW system.
Old 17th February 2020
  #486
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmix View Post
The harmonics in the spectral plot below are a result of the gain reduction mechanism itself, and are what give the compressor it's tonal character, no plugin compressors do this:

This conversation immediately sprung to mind when going through an older FabFilter video regarding their Saturn saturation plugin. The relevant discussion begins at about 7:52 in the video below:



The ensuing examination is quite interesting and may hint at underlying reasons for what you’re observing, but this is also an interesting example of a software implementation that may achieve what you find desirable.
Old 18th February 2020
  #487
Lives for gear
 
zmix's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
This conversation immediately sprung to mind when going through an older FabFilter video regarding their Saturn saturation plugin. The relevant discussion begins at about 7:52 in the video below:



The ensuing examination is quite interesting and may hint at underlying reasons for what you’re observing, but this is also an interesting example of a software implementation that may achieve what you find desirable.
Yes, they do discuss symmetry, etc, but the spectrum from "Saturation" is the result of a completely different mechanism than those produced by compression. It's trivially simple to generate even and odd order harmonics through distortion, but what we're seeing in hardware compression is not "distortion" in that sense, it's the sidebands produced by the amplitude modulation of the input signal by the gain reduction mechanism (as well as a few other aspects).
Old 3rd April 2020
  #488
Here for the gear
 

I would like to add other interfaces .

ESI U22XT

PreAmp: RC4580
ADC: WM8776
USB: TE7022L

s


MIDIPLUS STUDIO 2

PreAmp: NJM2122
ADC: CS4272

Last edited by FelipeCris; 3rd April 2020 at 11:37 PM.. Reason: add info
Old 9th May 2020
  #489
Gear Addict
 
MandoBastardo's Avatar
MOTU M4

Mic Pre: THAT Corp 6263
ADC: AKM AK5552VN
DAC: ES9016 SABRE32
USB: XMOS U11680C20
Old 24th May 2020
  #490
Gear Addict
Has anyone taken a look under the hood of a Forssell MADA-2a or SPL Madison?
Old 3rd August 2020
  #491
Lives for gear
 
s wave's Avatar
Anyone know what ADC/DAC is used in the Presonus StudioLive® 32SX: 32-channel digital mixer?

Anyone know what ADC/DAC is used in the Presonus StudioLive® 32SX: 32-channel digital mixer and USB audio interface? thanks in advance....
Old 4th August 2020
  #492
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by hebjam View Post
Hey monkeyxx,

I bought and re-sold the MixPre 3. It was really nice but had a bit of high end sibilance , slightly less natural sound than my Motu 624.

Just curious, as I never tried it, but have you ever run an external pre into the aux in? Just wondering if that sounds better than running into the XLR.
FWIW I run a Solo UA610 into the line ins and sounds great. MixPre 6m is really versatile and a great way to record with the L batteries and sled. Runs a long time with the larger ones and very liberating for those of us who self record.
Old 1 week ago
  #493
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
I don't really understand why someone would use this DAC for audio conversion, though it would make a rather nice digital volume control. (It's a multiplying DAC.) As a gain control, it has very high bandwidth, but not when you're changing the actual DAC value. For the later mode, it appears that you could update it at 2 MHz and get maybe 10-bit performance. But Schitt doesn't like oversampling so they have time for it to settle to higher resolution. Used in that way, there are no AC plots or specs at all. When used as a gain control, they quote THD at a rather unimpressive -104 dB, and only at 1 kHz.

Have you put that Schitt product on the bench, Jim? What are you seeing in the spectrum?

David L.Rick
Just for the sake of interest - the Schiit Yggdrasil is put on the bench in this review and it pretty much gets panned..

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...asil-dac.2358/

Just goes to show that winning awards and sounding good doesn't mean it performs well. Forgetting the possibilities of why things win awards in a marketting and reviewing magazine environment - it's too complex to ever really know - I always find it interesting how poor technical performance can still have humans loving the sound, presumably for psychoacoustic reasons.
Old 1 week ago
  #494
Gear Nut
I think the whole analog circuit matters the most than the chip by itself as you can have two different devices with the same chip that sounds entirely different.

When I ABed the DAC side of my Motu 828ES against my Apogee Quartet that shares the same ES9016S chip, they were sonically similar but they weren't identical. The differences were subtle but I still notice a difference as the Motu has a slightly narrow stereo field compared to the Apogee. The Quartet had more sparkle on the top end with a little more clarity in the highs similar to the Focusrite Forte that I use to own. They were both brigher sounding converters. Motu has a more softer top end rolled off. A darker sound.

Both the Motu and Apogee did have more clarity in the mids compared to the Clarett 8pre and Forte that sounded like some of the mids were scooped out with a thinner sound.
Old 1 week ago
  #495
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 View Post
Just for the sake of interest - the Schiit Yggdrasil is put on the bench in this review and it pretty much gets panned..

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...asil-dac.2358/

Just goes to show that winning awards and sounding good doesn't mean it performs well. Forgetting the possibilities of why things win awards in a marketting and reviewing magazine environment - it's too complex to ever really know - I always find it interesting how poor technical performance can still have humans loving the sound, presumably for psychoacoustic reasons.
My Schitt multibit doesn't sound good next to my BurrBrown PCM's or ESS DAC's. Plus it's only 16 bits. I replaced the AD 8512 opamps with ADA4898-2, didn't help much. Anyone want it?
Old 1 week ago
  #496
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 360studios15 View Post
I think the whole analog circuit matters the most than the chip by itself as you can have two different devices with the same chip that sounds entirely different.

When I ABed the DAC side of my Motu 828ES against my Apogee Quartet that shares the same ES9016S chip, they were sonically similar but they weren't identical. The differences were subtle but I still notice a difference as the Motu has a slightly narrow stereo field compared to the Apogee. The Quartet had more sparkle on the top end with a little more clarity in the highs similar to the Focusrite Forte that I use to own. They were both brigher sounding converters. Motu has a more softer top end rolled off. A darker sound.

Both the Motu and Apogee did have more clarity in the mids compared to the Clarett 8pre and Forte that sounded like some of the mids were scooped out with a thinner sound.
Very true. No two DAC's will sound the same, with even the same "chip."

I used to think the Clarett was pretty hot stuff, until I got the more modern batch of things. Which makes me think, plus previous experience, that components are getting better every couple of years, when it comes to digital audio. And the prices aren't going up either. It's sort of similar to how computers (PC or Mac, or phones) get developed so quickly.

The clarett just has a little bit of "gunk" in the mids now compared to newer things like the ESS ones I have heard and used. The clarett transient response I think is still very good though, it's a punchy converter.
Old 1 week ago
  #497
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Very true. No two DAC's will sound the same, with even the same "chip."

I used to think the Clarett was pretty hot stuff, until I got the more modern batch of things. Which makes me think, plus previous experience, that components are getting better every couple of years, when it comes to digital audio. And the prices aren't going up either. It's sort of similar to how computers (PC or Mac, or phones) get developed so quickly.

The clarett just has a little bit of "gunk" in the mids now compared to newer things like the ESS ones I have heard and used. The clarett transient response I think is still very good though, it's a punchy converter.
Yeah for sure. Converters have came a long ways with in the past 15 years. I really think the mid level converters are getting more closer to high end now that the gap is starting to close meaning no need to spend 3k on a conveter anymore when the new MOTU AVB stuff are finding it's way into major studios esp in Los Angeles. A lot of Apogee and Lynx guys even switched. Great vaule for the money and the best out of warranty program for 99 bucks. Unlike Antelope that end up as money pits. Heard one guy was oringally quoted a grand for a power supply failure in his Orion 32 but lowered to $500. He ditched that thing for Presonus Quantum. Presonus also stepped their game up too. Even Veteran Record Producer Ron Fair the closest thing to Quincy Jones uses the Quantum that once use to work behind an SSL that produced mega hits for The Black Eyed Peas, Christina Aguilera. Mary J. Blige etc. Video link. https://youtu.be/4PRA57yMuHU

I had bad luck with Focusrite drivers which is why I gotten away from them but I'm sure the Pro stuff on the Pro division is much better if CLA uses the RedNet system. I actually sold my Clarett for a real ISA Two. It definitely was a big step up in quality compared to the stock Clarett pre amps as the noise floor was way quieter and way more gain over 80db. The MOTU was a perfect replacement from the Clarett since the Clarett wasn't really designed to be used with Outboard gear since the mic pres weren't bypassble unlike the MOTU that I use as AD to DA converter. Not only that, adjusible trim levels for matching reference levels with outboard gear, not something you would find on the Clarett when getting into Pro Audio.
Old 1 week ago
  #498
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
My Schitt multibit doesn't sound good next to my BurrBrown PCM's or ESS DAC's. Plus it's only 16 bits. I replaced the AD 8512 opamps with ADA4898-2, didn't help much. Anyone want it?
I felt the Bifrost Uber was the best sounding Schiit converter. The original Yggdrasil also sounds better than the current one despite what ASR claims. Schiit voiced the newer version to be more “consumer” and sell more. There’s more lower midrange brownness and fog.
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