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CAd Trion 8000 Condenser Microphones
Old 27th March 2010
  #1
Gear Nut
 

CAd Trion 8000

Has anyone modded one of these yet? I'm talking about anything ranging from a tube swap, component swap all the way up to basically replacing everything inside. Don't get me wrong, for the price it sounds great, but it could defnitely sound better. This thing uses a 6J1 tube, which is very uncommon, but I've heard of a mod where you replace it with a 6AU6 tube, of course it needs a small wiring change. CAD Trion Series Microphones thats where they mention the tube replacement.

I'm having trouble finding the schematics for it, and I really haven't had time to take it apart and draw them out myself. If anyone has the schematics could you please post them or send me a message.Any and all ideas are welcome. I like making stuff sound better.
Old 27th March 2010
  #2
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illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffstuffbuddha View Post
Has anyone modded one of these yet? I'm talking about anything ranging from a tube swap, component swap all the way up to basically replacing everything inside. Don't get me wrong, for the price it sounds great, but it could defnitely sound better. This thing uses a 6J1 tube, which is very uncommon, but I've heard of a mod where you replace it with a 6AU6 tube, of course it needs a small wiring change. CAD Trion Series Microphones thats where they mention the tube replacement.

I'm having trouble finding the schematics for it, and I really haven't had time to take it apart and draw them out myself. If anyone has the schematics could you please post them or send me a message.Any and all ideas are welcome. I like making stuff sound better.
We just got done modding 1 last night!

Sounds AWESOME!!!

Peace
Illumination
Old 27th March 2010
  #3
Gear Nut
 

awesome! what did you do to it? do you have any before and after clips you could post? If you do, what was your exact signal chain for them?
Old 31st March 2010
  #4
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffstuffbuddha View Post
awesome! what did you do to it? do you have any before and after clips you could post? If you do, what was your exact signal chain for them?

I just finished this mod for Bobby Eli @ Studio E

I dont have any before and clips however the mic sounds much better.
It is not as bright and spitty.

I made the mic a plate follower with a new bigger jensen transformer. The transformer has a +25dbu rating. I added new electrolytic caps and a huge Russian Paper in Oil capacitor. New 6ak5w made in England.

I will have pictures and samples tomorrow.
Old 31st March 2010
  #5
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffstuffbuddha View Post
Has anyone modded one of these yet? I'm talking about anything ranging from a tube swap, component swap all the way up to basically replacing everything inside. Don't get me wrong, for the price it sounds great, but it could defnitely sound better. This thing uses a 6J1 tube, which is very uncommon, but I've heard of a mod where you replace it with a 6AU6 tube, of course it needs a small wiring change. CAD Trion Series Microphones thats where they mention the tube replacement.

I'm having trouble finding the schematics for it, and I really haven't had time to take it apart and draw them out myself. If anyone has the schematics could you please post them or send me a message.Any and all ideas are welcome. I like making stuff sound better.
I may try this tube change today. The C800g uses the 6au6 tube run at 230v. This power supply is only 120v so I will get it to run as close as I can.

I also have some tubes that Sony uses in the C800g

Old 21st May 2010
  #6
Here for the gear
Mike Joly Rocked my trion 8000

I have quite few mics, but after I got my trion 8000 back, I was blown away.
I also have the Apex 460 Mike Joly mod, but to my ear, the 8000 stands out more.

OktavaMod - Affordable Boutique Microphones
Old 22nd July 2010
  #7
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MRose's Avatar
Trion 8000 mod?

Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
We just got done modding 1 last night!

Sounds AWESOME!!!

Peace
Illumination
Any sound sample? what is involved in the mod? how much is the mod for the Trion 8000? I have one that I use every now and then (mostly as room mic or bass amp) wouldn't mind getting it modded if the sound was substantially better
Old 23rd July 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRose View Post
Any sound sample? what is involved in the mod? how much is the mod for the Trion 8000? I have one that I use every now and then (mostly as room mic or bass amp) wouldn't mind getting it modded if the sound was substantially better
The mod that I do for the Trion 8000 is to rewire the entire mic with mil spec teflon wire. I change the circuit to a C800g circuit. Add better capacitors. Add a transformer used by Sony. Install a 6au6 tube (similar to Sony) Add a paper in oil coupling cap. Rebuild the power supply.

The Trion capsule sounds nice in this circuit. The mod sounds substantially better and takes the mic to new levels.

This is an extensive mod that makes it sound like the Akita. Here are sound samples on post 160. This mic is now in use by Phillysoulman @ Studio E in Philly.



PM me for the pricing.


Old 26th July 2010
  #9
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I am happy and proud to say that I own the JJ Audio modded Trion 8000 and I am totally blown away by it.
I have used it extensively, including vocals on the new Ronnie Spector cd which I am producing and engineering as well as on backing vocals,woodwinds,brass,you name it ,and it is the star of the show.
In fact,Im gonna have JJ mod another one for me.

Hopefully,I'l be able to post some clips just as soon as I come up for air.
So in closing, I highly recommend the JJ Audio Trion 8000 mod for the next addition to your mike arsenal.thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
Old 11th August 2010
  #10
Gear Nut
 

How much is the mod?
Old 29th August 2011
  #11
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Wm Idle's Avatar
 

According to Jeff at CAD tech support, the Trion 8000 uses a 6YJ tube. I can not find any information on that tube - anywhere. He said they sell them for $20.

Are the 6J1, EF95, 5654, or 6AK5 suitable substitutions? CAD said that it had to be a 6YJ - no subs.

If you have swapped the original tube out, please state what has worked for you!

Thanks in advance!
Bill
Old 13th September 2011
  #12
Gear Head
 
psycom's Avatar
 

Use a 5640 (EF95) tube instead of the 6J1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wm Idle View Post
According to Jeff at CAD tech support, the Trion 8000 uses a 6YJ tube. I can not find any information on that tube - anywhere. He said they sell them for $20.

Are the 6J1, EF95, 5654, or 6AK5 suitable substitutions? CAD said that it had to be a 6YJ - no subs.

If you have swapped the original tube out, please state what has worked for you!

Thanks in advance!
Bill
Yes sir... drop in a good NOS black plate 5640 from the EF95 family (I used some RCA's) and the difference was like taking a sock off the mic.

Don't know if it needs any other mods now. You can get a pair of good NOS tubes for 10 bucks. Try it,,, you'll be amazed. btw, I wrote CAD yesterday and told them the same thing.

rich
Old 15th September 2011
  #13
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elamberth's Avatar
I am very interested in trying this. Where did you get the RCA tubes?

Thanks!
Old 27th September 2011
  #14
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Wm Idle's Avatar
 

Thanks Rich!
Old 27th September 2011
  #15
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycom View Post
Yes sir... drop in a good NOS black plate 5640 from the EF95 family (I used some RCA's) and the difference was like taking a sock off the mic.

Don't know if it needs any other mods now. You can get a pair of good NOS tubes for 10 bucks. Try it,,, you'll be amazed. btw, I wrote CAD yesterday and told them the same thing.

rich

The 5640 is a 6 pin sub mini beam power tube. I think you mean the CAd Trion 80005654 tube That is a CAd Trion 80006ak5 or CAd Trion 8000EF95 type tube. The CAd Trion 8000CV4010 mil. spec. tubes sound great. They are inexpensive so try several types.






Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
Old 25th November 2011
  #16
Gear Head
 
psycom's Avatar
 

5654 tube & Hong Kong tube advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat View Post
The 5640 is a 6 pin sub mini beam power tube. I think you mean the CAd Trion 80005654 tube That is a CAd Trion 80006ak5 or CAd Trion 8000EF95 type tube. The CAd Trion 8000CV4010 mil. spec. tubes sound great. They are inexpensive so try several types.






Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
My mistake! Yes indeed it is a 5654. Thank you for mentioning this!
looking up more mods now and the coupling cap and output cap needs done and that's about it I believe.

I took a layer of wire off one of my baskets and need to record the difference but you do NEED a pop filter now. Also if I cup my hands around it a bit of hum occurs so I lost a bit of shielding but I don't record like that so its not an issue.

So it took so long to reply but I'm so busy I forgot to check back. Now I'm modding all my mics and looking for the parts.

Also I got my RCA's via eBay
Lot of 5 NOS RCA Electron Vacumm Tubes # 5654 (320701611956)Member id jm-estatebuyers | Feedback Score Of 706 | 100.0%



Sale date: 06/10/11 for $20.00 and one was bad. Oh well. I also found these Philips 5654 6AK5 CV4010 which are killer but he had just this pair and came from Hong Kong.

BTW, I advise against getting tubes from Hong Kong unless you're willing to bite the bullet because to return a fake NOS GZ34 requires tracking as does ALL eBay returns. UPS wanted $70 and the Post office $40 because of the tracking or it'd been $5.00. Don't do it! I won the complaint too and eBay gave me a $20.00 coupon to help deffer the cost of shipping. In my case we were talking about a $115 tube so I had to do it. Good side was those Phillips came from same seller and were legit. He got scammed too I think but still...

Now I know why anything from overseas has a return policy. Most likely you won;t bother because of the cost issue. Lesson learned!
I'll be back with the upgrade parts soon.

Rich
Old 24th December 2011
  #17
Here for the gear
 

CAD trion 8000 tube upgrade

I have been reading these posts, and really would like to know how to complete this upgrade for my 8000. Is there an instructional youtube video, or detailed post anywhere that can guide me?
Old 10th February 2012
  #18
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G-Sun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat View Post
The mod that I do for the Trion 8000 is to rewire the entire mic with mil spec teflon wire. I change the circuit to a C800g circuit. Add better capacitors. Add a transformer used by Sony. Install a 6au6 tube (similar to Sony) Add a paper in oil coupling cap. Rebuild the power supply.

The Trion capsule sounds nice in this circuit. The mod sounds substantially better and takes the mic to new levels.
This must be a very big mod. What's left of the original mic? Just the capsule and hardware?
Old 10th February 2012
  #19
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G-Sun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycom View Post
looking up more mods now and the coupling cap and output cap needs done and that's about it I believe.
I'm a little unsure of schematics and types of caps. Is it C3 and C2 you're talking about?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TRION 8000 SCHEMATIC.pdf (60.9 KB, 704 views)
Old 10th February 2012
  #20
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
This must be a very big mod. What's left of the original mic? Just the capsule and hardware?

I leave the capsule polarization circuit so the patterns will work, however I jump ther voltage up in the power supply for the 6au6 type tube to 200v unloaded, 160vdc loaded. The capsule voltage needs to be dropped back to 120vdc. The nice thing about the Trion is that it has a trimpot for the 60v capsule voltage.


I add a transformer coupling capacitor, 10uf 400v filtering cap on the B+, cut a large hole in the PCB to mount the larger transformer and add some other tweaks.








.
Old 11th February 2012
  #21
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I'm looking at a Mullard EF95.
Is that balanced lows vs. high, or should I expect it to take me in a specific sonic direction?
Old 11th February 2012
  #22
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
I'm looking at a Mullard EF95.
Is that balanced lows vs. high, or should I expect it to take me in a specific sonic direction?
The Ef95 sounds great. Make some minor circuit changes:

Change R9 to 100k, put a jumper on C2. Add a 1uf to 2.2uf Polypropylene, coupling capacitor between the junction of R9 and pin 6 to the primary of the transformer.
Change C3 to polystyrene.
Change C4 to 47uf

Change the transformer to an AMI T8 the T47 will not fit.




Have Fun

Last edited by Haz-Mat-Strat; 12th February 2012 at 08:19 PM.. Reason: Changed "ot" with "to"
Old 11th February 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat View Post
The Ef95 sounds great. Make some minor circuit changes:

Change R9 to 100k, put a jumper on C2. Add a 1uf ot 2.2uf Polypropylene, coupling capacitor between the junction of R9 and pin 6 to the primary of the transformer.
Change C3 to polystyrene.
Change C4 to 47uf

Change the transformer to an AMI T8 the T47 will not fit.
Thank you sir!

"Add a 1uf ot 2.2uf Polypropylene" : It's 'or' I presume
The AMI T8: Quite expensive, and a little hard to get hold on. Is it different ratio than the stock?
Could I use the rest of the mod with the stock transformer, or is it only good for the AMI T8?

BTW: I'm so satisfied with the C1 you modded for me
Old 14th February 2012
  #24
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Thank you sir!

"Add a 1uf ot 2.2uf Polypropylene" : It's 'or' I presume
The AMI T8: Quite expensive, and a little hard to get hold on. Is it different ratio than the stock?
Could I use the rest of the mod with the stock transformer, or is it only good for the AMI T8?

BTW: I'm so satisfied with the C1 you modded for me
I am glad you like the C1. Once it is modded it has a very smooth top end.

You can use the stock transformer, however the laminations may not be as high quality as the AMI. Also the AMI will give you a more vintage sound. The transformer will also fit into the existing can. The tone of the mic will change slightly.

Jensen transformers sound very good however they need to be "uncased" to fit in the mic and they need a lot of mechanical mods to mount them properly.

I have not tried the lundahl in that circuit however they may be easier to fit into the mic.

You need an 8:1 transformer













.
Old 15th February 2012
  #25
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G-Sun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat View Post
I am glad you like the C1. Once it is modded it has a very smooth top end.

You can use the stock transformer, however the laminations may not be as high quality as the AMI. Also the AMI will give you a more vintage sound. The transformer will also fit into the existing can. The tone of the mic will change slightly.

Jensen transformers sound very good however they need to be "uncased" to fit in the mic and they need a lot of mechanical mods to mount them properly.

I have not tried the lundahl in that circuit however they may be easier to fit into the mic.

You need an 8:1 transformer
Thanks a lot!
I'll change the tube first (NOS '50 Mullard ordered), then the caps/res, then the transformer
Old 18th July 2012
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat View Post
The 5640 is a 6 pin sub mini beam power tube. I think you mean the CAd Trion 80005654 tube That is a CAd Trion 80006ak5 or CAd Trion 8000EF95 type tube. The CAd Trion 8000CV4010 mil. spec. tubes sound great. They are inexpensive so try several types.



Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio
in your (or anyone else opinion) are the Mullard English Military spec CV4010's really worth the extra cost?

I'm looking at NOS 5654's (6AK5W) going for about $5 with shipping.
The CV's are going for about $15 each + 5$ shipping.

Since the original tube went kaput I'd like to have more than one on hand in the event of the inevitable re-occurrence of tube failure...I'm just having a hard time justifying $40 some dollars for a pair of CVs.

unless of course I can be persuaded by those wiser than me that there would be some significant noticeable advantageous benefit to the mics sound, money is a little tight right now, so I know $40 doesn't seem like much but compared to $10 for two 5654's that extra 30 quid could go to more midi cables for example.....and God knows we all need more midi cables!!!!

GREAT thread btw...this is one of the things that makes this place so great!

keep shinin

jerm
Old 18th July 2012
  #27
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CAd Trion 80005 CV4010 tubes $55.00 or get his singles for $15.00









Jim Jacobsen
JJ Audio



.
Old 18th July 2012
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

thanx Jim,

His singles go for over $20 with the shipping at least that is what the add in my saved list from yesterday says, I guess that's what you meant by they are inexpensive so try several, to me that is not inexpensive for a tube.

then again you seem to swear by them and you are the expert in these matters...I'll tell you what, I have two NOS 5654's coming cost me about $10, so I can get back up and running and see if the mic has any other issues, but I'll go ahead and order 1 CV4010 and compare, my main concern is NOISE as the stock tube NS ratio just seemed to get worse and worse the longer I used it to the point it was unusable....it's like someone was slowly letting the air out of my joy balloon,

thanx again this thread has a wealth of information for this Mic.

keep shinin

jerm
Old 22nd July 2012
  #29
Gear Maniac
 

Got the 6AK5W in yesterday and put it in the mic,

the vocal trials thus far are much clearer and crisper on the high end.
The odd thing about it is the back end of the mic seems to pick up better than the front, which leads me to wonder if I have been using it backwards all these years....I call the front the part that has the 3 way switch on it.?

I also had one little mishap, I couldn't get the pin insert to release no matter what position I put the locking screw in so it was real hard to get the tube in, during my struggle one wire came out of it's sleeve, I guess it was crimped in their cause there was no solder to be found, long story short I couldn't get the wire to go back into the pin/sleeve so I had to use another solid wire and then solder that to the loose one.

Anyway I still have a real low noise (about -56db) static flutter going on which I'm thinking has something to do with the power supply so I'm looking into doing some mods on that.

Quote:
I leave the capsule polarization circuit so the patterns will work, however I jump ther voltage up in the power supply for the 6au6 type tube to 200v unloaded, 160vdc loaded. The capsule voltage needs to be dropped back to 120vdc. The nice thing about the Trion is that it has a trimpot for the 60v capsule voltage.
'

About that Jim,

there is a red switch on the back of the supply (mine says 115V) is it as simple as switching that to 210v for this tube?

Or is there more involved?

I saw that trim pot in the mic, little blue thing.

if I understand you correctly I switch the power supply setting to 200v then adjust the trim pot in the mic to what voltage for this 6AK5W tube? 120v?

or are you swapping out the transformer for a better 200v?


keep shinin

jerm
Old 8th January 2013
  #30
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G-Sun's Avatar
Has anyone tried something like the
Cinemag CM-24110
http://cinemag.biz/mic_output/CM-24110.pdf
for the Trion 8000 ?
4:1
It's maybe small enough.
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