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Studer 289 Modular Synthesizers
Old 9th July 2010
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2N1305 View Post
that LM301AN is the same, if not better, opamp as the original. the additional suffixe (NOPB) makes no electrical difference, it means no lead (No Pb, Plomb! Oui je parle français! t'es chanceux, hein?).

Now your condensateur de lissage is simply called a filter cap. And I donT' know why you would spend that much money (9 euros?) on a simple capacitor. I'd use this Phycomp | Passifs | Condensateurs | Aluminium | 2 broches, 85°C |LH050M4700BPF-3025 unless you need the bolt on the end to secure the capacitor to the chassis? does the original cap have that bolt?

what does the original look like? Is it in the pictures?

cheers,
2N

by the way, beautiful european console that Studer!
Merci 2N !

ok i go for National LM301
i know what mean nopb, just ask about lm301 because i find 2 or 3 manufacturer(301an,301ap...), i go to buy 100pces ... i don't want cheap or bad spec one, burning after 10h


about the filter cap
as you can see in the picture i need chassis screw mounting (M8) that's why it cost 10 euros and not 3 ?
but if some one can tell me why the Vishay cap cost 5x the price
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-dsc00154.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00155.jpg  
Old 9th July 2010
  #32
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Cool. :-)
Old 9th July 2010
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
Merci 2N !

ok i go for National LM301
i know what mean nopb, just ask about lm301 because i find 2 or 3 manufacturer(301an,301ap...), i go to buy 100pces ... i don't want cheap or bad spec one, burning after 10h


about the filter cap
as you can see in the picture i need chassis screw mounting (M8) that's why it cost 10 euros and not 3 ?
but if some one can tell me why the Vishay cap cost 5x the price
Indeed, but you need not buy 100, you can get smaller quantities from other places, I am quite sure. Are you really willing to spend over 300$ on opamps? (what's that, like 100euros?)

As for the cap, I have looked at the specifications of both. Je donne ma langue au chat. I have no idea why the Vishay one costs more, especially when you look at the life expectancy: it is shorter than the BHC, by 7000 hours at least! I'd buy the BHC, even though I never heard of that company. The voltage and temperature ratings are roughly the same, but the Vishay does a higher ripple current capacity, more than twice. Maybe it's just the vishay name, after all they do make good components.

alors, êtes-vous un ingénieur de son ou avez-vous cette console chez vous?

thanks for the reply
and to all others sorry for the french it's no disrespect

2N
Old 10th July 2010
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2N1305 View Post
Indeed, but you need not buy 100, you can get smaller quantities from other places, I am quite sure. Are you really willing to spend over 300$ on opamps? (what's that, like 100euros?)

As for the cap, I have looked at the specifications of both. Je donne ma langue au chat. I have no idea why the Vishay one costs more, especially when you look at the life expectancy: it is shorter than the BHC, by 7000 hours at least! I'd buy the BHC, even though I never heard of that company. The voltage and temperature ratings are roughly the same, but the Vishay does a higher ripple current capacity, more than twice. Maybe it's just the vishay name, after all they do make good components.

alors, êtes-vous un ingénieur de son ou avez-vous cette console chez vous?

thanks for the reply
and to all others sorry for the french it's no disrespect

2N
i go for 100 pces because i have to change something around 30 pces in the desk, i also have a 169 with same op-amp, so i have spare for long time. i can go for smaller quantities but the unit price drop to 0.34 euros for 100pces, the total price is less than 50usd ... i think i can do this for my 2 studer desk

and now the BHC caps are on the basket too

i also add 2N3771 power transistor and LM723CN voltage regulator
both are used in the -22V regulator card (after the power supply),
basically i take it for spare "in case" but maybe after 30 years i can change it, even if it work? don't know if this component type become less efficient after long time ?
or maybe some substitutes with better spec?

Old 10th July 2010
  #35
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Excellent idea, go for the most parts as possible. Oh my goodness, they still make the LM723? Personal advice: I'd buy those 2N3771 transistors on ebay or used becuase there is always a risk of getting "fake" (counterfeit) parts form even reliable sellers. Check Ebay, someone like westfloridacomponents.

2N
Old 12th July 2010
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2N1305 View Post
Personal advice: I'd buy those 2N3771 transistors on ebay or used becuase there is always a risk of getting "fake" (counterfeit) parts form even reliable sellers


how is that possible ...

i find this:

Magnatec | Semiconducteurs | Discrets | Transistor à usage général | Transistors de puissance NPN |2N3771
for the transistor, fake ?

National Semiconductor | Semiconducteurs | Gestion de la puissance | Régulateur linéaire | Régulateurs de tension négative et positive ajustables |LM723CN/NOPB
for the regulator

i also receive 2xB67 record amp, very low prices... 6x TDA1034 and 2 studer input trafo to canibaliz
Old 15th July 2010
  #37
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monitor wire list finished...aroud 10 page

now i have the 1.289.044 version board interconnection audio and signalling list.
Useful list, and now available for the custom mod i have to do, monitoring in rec/mix environment don't have same need as broadcast environment...

i start unmounting the monitoring back connector rail, better acces for soldering & modification

and as you can imagin i will do a new wireing list with the mod i do
caled 1.289.mod or 1.289.044.2010 or 1.289................
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-dsc00164.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00163.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00161.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00162.jpg  
Old 18th July 2010
  #38
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have a little pb ... if some one can help ?

about the symmetrical audio wiring...

as show in a previous post i have to do all in/out connection, XLR multicore wired in soldering patch on the low back of the console
the job are 80% done...

when i start this i look at the old 189 manual and "Hot" input are wired on XLR pin 3... and i do this

but now i check the studer colour label in my 169 manual:
white are called "A-Line (Live)" --> pin 2
Blue are called "B-Line" --> pin3

so i check again the colour label in the 289 input unit and the white are "Hi" and Blue are "Lo" but i wired it like the 189 manual say
i have:
white "Hi/hot" pin 3
blue "Lo/cold" pin 2

i think i just invert phase in all IN/OUT of the console but i'm not sure

the x69 and x89 console series seems to have global phase inversion ???
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-dsc00166.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00167.jpg  
Old 18th July 2010
  #39
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i just got 089 console 10 with mono and 2 stereo MkI with 2 stereo compressors and 2 summe!!!


also I got 24 ch of wsw black compact console with compressors and one complete console with another 24 ch // complete one from 1969!!!!
Old 18th July 2010
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roginator View Post
i just got 089 console 10 with mono and 2 stereo MkI with 2 stereo compressors and 2 summe!!!
COOL .... i need a side-car for my 289 heh
Old 18th July 2010
  #41
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hahaha

not mine....
:P
Old 19th July 2010
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roginator View Post
hahaha

not mine....
:P
i think my lovely 169 will do the job

i have in mid to eventually interconnect the mother board 169-289.
Nominal bus level are aprox the same, -10dB for the 169 and -9 for the 289
but have to check the load, and see if 289 master module can do it?

Both desk have 0 ohm input amp on the summing master section, did that mean i don't have to care about the load and the number of input modules?
Old 20th July 2010
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
i think my lovely 169 will do the job

i have in mid to eventually interconnect the mother board 169-289.
Nominal bus level are aprox the same, -10dB for the 169 and -9 for the 289
but have to check the load, and see if 289 master module can do it?

Both desk have 0 ohm input amp on the summing master section, did that mean i don't have to care about the load and the number of input modules?
nice idea

shoul i try to do that with mci 500 and 169
Old 24th July 2010
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roginator View Post
nice idea

shoul i try to do that with mci 500 and 169
what do you think about the summing bus load with 169 and 289...
for sure if i do that i remove the 169 master unit heh




since yesterday, second recap session ...
some random pictures
now the electrolytic replacement are done at 95% (just wait for radial 100uf 16v for the reverb and limiter unit, missed in my order)
i also replace with new LM301 the 2 master section
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-dsc00170.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00171.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00172.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00173.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00174.jpg  

Studer 289-dsc00175.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00176.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00177.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00178.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00179.jpg  

Old 24th July 2010
  #45
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UP for sale

an amazing panel of Original NOS Frako capacitor
from 47uf 6v to 4700uf 50v

don't feel free to not make an offer


....ok time to sleep
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-dsc00180.jpg  
Old 25th July 2010
  #46
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roginator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
UP for sale

an amazing panel of Original NOS Frako capacitor
from 47uf 6v to 4700uf 50v

don't feel free to not make an offer


....ok time to sleep
lol

worst and used caps heh

your job is far from over.. replace that old bad tantals too !!!!!!!

i had worst expirience with them in STUDER consoles!!!!!!
Old 25th July 2010
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roginator View Post
lol

worst and used caps heh

your job is far from over.. replace that old bad tantals too !!!!!!!

i had worst expirience with them in STUDER consoles!!!!!!
mmm... i know but i have lot of hi value tantal ... 100/16 and 47/20...you know the price
Old 25th July 2010
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
UP for sale

an amazing panel of Original NOS Frako capacitor
from 47uf 6v to 4700uf 50v

don't feel free to not make an offer


....ok time to sleep
Hi zamproject

Where did you get these NOS capacitors? that's amazing! Do they have more NOS stuff? Like potentiometers? I have to know...
Old 26th July 2010
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2N1305 View Post
Hi zamproject

Where did you get these NOS capacitors? that's amazing! Do they have more NOS stuff? Like potentiometers? I have to know...
somewhere in and 30 years old studer console



today easy work, cosmetic ... replace the pushlock rivet from the panel

and also catch a studer supply for the phantom power
i think i forgot to say it before now, this broadcast console don't have 48v supply, but the input module have the electronic track ready to fit the two 6k resistor, and the 48v rail on the bus board exist

3way:
-just solder 48 resistor and conect the 48v supply to the mother board rail
easy way!!!
-the same but adding a switch to each input
-just do a in/out xlr box to have a 8 or 12 way patchable 48V
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-dsc00182.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00187.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00184.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00185.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00186.jpg  

Studer 289-dsc00188.jpg  
Old 30th July 2010
  #50
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Dom & Roland's Avatar
I have a studer 089....thinking of selling it! Its been modded by an abbey road tech to bypass the funky pan control on the output...anyone in this thread interested?
Old 4th August 2010
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom & Roland View Post
I have a studer 089....thinking of selling it! Its been modded by an abbey road tech to bypass the funky pan control on the output...anyone in this thread interested?
funky pan control ???
anyway maybe the classified are a better place for selling gear


____________________


yesterday starting to debug one of the compressor (the other work fine)

one canal with no audio, and one with constant attenuation,
one GRM never move from 20dB reduction
multiple pb...

first check audio path, but have to disconnect the compression circuit and the FET "return", the send was the user in/out switch so no pb...

i don't want to unsolder the FET transistor, to easy to kill it, so i unsolder pre and post resistance(on the drain) and do a new bridge with same global resistance value

now audio path test,
one channel are ok !!!
one channel dead, i track the signal and find nothing after the second opamp (TDA1034) i decide to replace it

for this i cannibalize a B67 record amp... sry heh

after the replacement both channel are ok!thumbsup

but there is serious pb on the compression circuit
and it's not an easy system:

active full wave rectifier --> threshold circuit --> ratio circuit --> time circuit (att/rel)
and at the end,a pulse-width modulator driving the FET an controlled by a 300kHz osz


i thing it's little to hi engineering for me ... but i will try later, when i got a scope
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-dsc00172.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00173.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00175.jpg   Studer 289-dsc00176.jpg  
Old 4th August 2010
  #52
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i have the answer on a previous question in this topic,
about the XLR connection and the phase ...
i just compare an -input signal- with the -insert signal- and the -output signal-
and you know what ... insert sinus test tone have inverted phase ...
all my in/out soldering are wrong

but important info, i do this mistake by looking at the 189 manual
so if the console wiring are what the manual say the 089 and 189 console have a phase issue !!!

if someone can check this on a x89 console ? Rognator?

anyway the only pb i find with this for the moment (except my built in PFL speaker out of phase) are if you use an external effect wired to an aux out and, sidechain-ed from an insert ...

Old 10th August 2010
  #53
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Thumbs up

MAN

this week-end summer cleaning of my control room,
and just something coming in my mind during the job ....
why not putting the Studer in place, even if the restoration are not totally done ???
i ask myself dozen time...
i want the console 12cm lower than actual side panel do, and i have to make new one with rack integration and remove 2 aluminum rail to lower it
mmm.... ok lets GO
removing the side panel and the rail to have this 12cm, finding a temporary system to maintain the console, and call a friend to move the 150kg (with module removed ...)

and you know what ..... WOW

i'm just happy heh

since i do 2 mix to test all this s....

and the sound are really damn good
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-_mg_1539.jpg  
Old 22nd August 2010
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
MAN

this week-end summer cleaning of my control room,
and just something coming in my mind during the job ....
why not putting the Studer in place, even if the restoration are not totally done ???
i ask myself dozen time...
i want the console 12cm lower than actual side panel do, and i have to make new one with rack integration and remove 2 aluminum rail to lower it
mmm.... ok lets GO
removing the side panel and the rail to have this 12cm, finding a temporary system to maintain the console, and call a friend to move the 150kg (with module removed ...)

and you know what ..... WOW

i'm just happy heh

since i do 2 mix to test all this s....

and the sound are really damn good
Looks wonderful :-)
Old 22nd August 2010
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motordisco View Post
Looks wonderful :-)
IT IS


can somebody tell me the function of R1 (R101 for the R channel) in the stereo unit?
it's the first pot (50k) after the input trafo (see schematic pict)

i start the calibration and i have no documentation for this...
i also have pot on the stereo connection module, 100ohm in place of the fixed 180ohm resistance in the 189 version (+4 dB ?).
After test it seems that the stereo unit here are calibrated (and adjustable) for +10dB line input ref level !!!!
i can't do +4, or i have to change the trim pot with higher value ...
Attached Thumbnails
Studer 289-st-input-.jpg   Studer 289-st-input-b.jpg  
Old 24th August 2010
  #56
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Hi zamproject. What a beautiful console you have !!!

Quote:
can somebody tell me the function of R1 (R101 for the R channel) in the stereo unit?
it's the first pot (50k) after the input trafo (see schematic pict)
R1 and C1 form a zobel network to dampen the high-frequency resonance of the transformer. Unless Studer has a different procedure (but I have never heard of it), you are supposed to adjust it for the best ringing-free square response - note that it is dependent on the source impedance.

The adjustment is easy to do if you have an oscilloscope that you will hook to the PFL output, and a LF generator that you will hook to the mic input of the module, with a resistor in between to make it "see" a 200 ohm source impedance, as if it was a microphone. Then you adjust R1 to make the output signal of the first stage look as sharp and clean as possible. The LFG will be set to square signal, at a level similar to that delivered by a real mic, to avoid saturation. It is a good idea to demagnetize the input transformer first.

Quote:
also have pot on the stereo connection module, 100ohm in place of the fixed 180ohm resistance in the 189 version (+4 dB ?).
After test it seems that the stereo unit here are calibrated (and adjustable) for +10dB line input ref level !!!!
i can't do +4, or i have to change the trim pot with higher value ...
Welcome to the wonderful world of ORTF, where the reference level is the hottest ever heh , +12dBu if my memory serves, instead of the European +6dBu standard for which the 289 was designed. Hence the different resistors I guess. By changing them back to the normal value, you can easily adjust to the standard levels. I suppose you can expect the output reference level to be modified as well.
Old 25th August 2010
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlb2 View Post
Hi zamproject. What a beautiful console you have !!!


R1 and C1 form a zobel network to dampen the high-frequency resonance of the transformer. Unless Studer has a different procedure (but I have never heard of it), you are supposed to adjust it for the best ringing-free square response - note that it is dependent on the source impedance.

The adjustment is easy to do if you have an oscilloscope that you will hook to the PFL output, and a LF generator that you will hook to the mic input of the module, with a resistor in between to make it "see" a 200 ohm source impedance, as if it was a microphone. Then you adjust R1 to make the output signal of the first stage look as sharp and clean as possible. The LFG will be set to square signal, at a level similar to that delivered by a real mic, to avoid saturation. It is a good idea to demagnetize the input transformer first.


Welcome to the wonderful world of ORTF, where the reference level is the hottest ever heh , +12dBu if my memory serves, instead of the European +6dBu standard for which the 289 was designed. Hence the different resistors I guess. By changing them back to the normal value, you can easily adjust to the standard levels. I suppose you can expect the output reference level to be modified as well.
Merci JLB2 !!!thumbsup

don't have scop and LGF yet but they are on the way!

do i need to use 1K test tone, or other frequency too,to adjust with frequency response ?
about impedance and LGF connection, i hook LGF pin 2 and 3, floating ground, and 200ohm in parallel with the trafo?

i have the demagnetizing procedure for the 169/269,
30Hz test tone, 30 sec increase/decrease, from 0V to 3V(+12dB)
but i don't know if i have to power on the console heh

nominal module output level are 280mV,(-9dB post fad) with fader at 10dB att (manual info), but to have this output level with the stereo module (mono are ok) i have to send +10 (or 12) on the line input,
maybe in live broadcast situation, when operator play an external devices (CD, tape or other) they just put the fader from -inf to Max ?
so the ref input level are set for the fader at 0 and not -10 ?
because if i put the fader at 0, i don't have to run the input so hot to get my nominal output level...

anyway i will do a test with a serial resistance (100ohm?) to the pot to lower the input ref... think it's better to keep the trim pot for the calibration, otherwise i have to use 1% resistor ...

for the output i have no pb, all output, master, aux, monitor etc... come from line amplifier, with an easy access trim pot for calibration from +6 to +15

JLB2, you seems familiar with ORTF ? are you a RadioFrance tech? i would be happy to share some info!!!


Old 26th August 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
Merci JLB2 !!!thumbsup
De rien

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
don't have scop and LGF yet but they are on the way!

do i need to use 1K test tone, or other frequency too,to adjust with frequency response ?
The frequency does not really matter as long as it is a square wave. Just use one that gives you a good sight of the ringing on the screen of the oscilloscope. That would be in the hereabouts of 10-20kHz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
about impedance and LGF connection, i hook LGF pin 2 and 3, floating ground, and 200ohm in parallel with the trafo?
Actually it is :

- 2 = hot pin of the output of the LFG, with a resistor in series to make up a source impedance of 200 ohms. With a LFG having a 50 ohms output impedance (it is usually written next to the connector) you will use a 150 ohms resistor.

- 3 = straight to the cold side (shield) of the LFG.

- 1 = either shorted to 3, or just left unconnected, depending on what gives the less hum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
i have the demagnetizing procedure for the 169/269,
30Hz test tone, 30 sec increase/decrease, from 0V to 3V(+12dB)
but i don't know if i have to power on the console heh
Eh eh, that would be a great excuse to justify a new pair of loudspeakers heh Just in case anyone actually wonders, the answer is tutt

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
nominal module output level are 280mV,(-9dB post fad) with fader at 10dB att (manual info), but to have this output level with the stereo module (mono are ok) i have to send +10 (or 12) on the line input, maybe in live broadcast situation, when operator play an external devices (CD, tape or other) they just put the fader from -inf to Max ? so the ref input level are set for the fader at 0 and not -10 ? because if i put the fader at 0, i don't have to run the input so hot to get my nominal output level...
I don't think so. Modifiying a console just to fit unusual fader habits sounds like quite a strange way of doing things, and not one I've seen anywhere, including Radio France. All the more so since it leaves you no possibility to adjust low level material (a common case in e.g. classical music).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
anyway i will do a test with a serial resistance (100ohm?) to the pot to lower the input ref... think it's better to keep the trim pot for the calibration, otherwise i have to use 1% resistor
1% resistors are not expensive, and you can buy them singly from e.g. Selectronic (I seem to understand you are located in Paris).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
for the output i have no pb, all output, master, aux, monitor etc... come from line amplifier, with an easy access trim pot for calibration from +6 to +15
Great !

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
JLB2, you seems familiar with ORTF ? are you a RadioFrance tech? i would be happy to share some info!!!
Actually I am not, but I certainly feel flattered that you think so I do work in the field, with some concern for archiving, and I am used to using & fixing ex-ORTF equipment, so I do have info to share
Old 26th August 2010
  #59
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Oops, post sent twice

Last edited by jlb2; 26th August 2010 at 01:00 PM..
Old 26th August 2010
  #60
Gear Addict
 

other question...

i'm little confuse with input module calibration...
for the moment i use 1k test tone from DAW trough my DA converter

1-do i have to set my ref level on the DA output loaded with 600 Ohm, and connect to the console input after the ref setting
2-same as 1 but without the load
3-connect my DA to my board input an set the ref level
4-other option ???

heh


JLB2, merci encore, PM send
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