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The real diff between cheap and pricey preamps? Condenser Microphones
Old 25th March 2010
  #151
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Lifted's Avatar
 

Let me say it like this.

I have used Perception 200 with small Yamaha mixer and for years it fit the sound I needed, even with MXL4000 is sounded beautiful . When I have sold the Yamaha board I plugged the MXL into my ART MPA PRO 2 and SSL Alpha Channel and quickly sold the MXL because it was suddenly overly harsh. (Little did I know Michael Joly would offer a complete mic overhaul on MXL400 at just $329 with capsule change and FET replacement a month later )

I have sold Perception 200 as well, because it wouldn't blend with "more expensive" pres I now had.

It took me about 3-4 mics until I found EXACTLY what SSL Alpha Channel works with to my ear. It was SM7B that wouldn't work for what I needed to do with ART PRO MPA 2.

I have recently bought Michael Joly's Capsule Head for my MXL603s and found it sounds AMAZING through ART PRO MPA 2. I was blown away.

Suddenly the so called "huge separation" between these 2 preamps shifted, and became almost equal, and I'm a happy guy because ART PRO MPA 2 has been sleeping on the shelf for a while now, and I wanted to start using it more and more, but couldn't.

I'm no longer thinking about selling the unit, and I'm extremely happy I get to use it now next to an EXCELLENT SSL Alpha Channel pre sitting in my room but used 100% of the time.

Real difference is this: Does it fit the criteria you need, and does it work for what you are trying to achieve.

If yes, then buying more expensive stuff really defeats the purpose, because you got what you need already, and you never truly appreciate it, until it's gone.

It's like loving a girl, but knowing her small imperfections, and hearing your boys talk **** about her, so you dump her, to realize she was better than the rest of the women you are finding now, not because she was perfect, but she was right for you.


Bottom line is trust your heart and your ears, and stop worrying about what other people say if you got what you need, and happy with what you got.
Old 25th March 2010
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flute player View Post
You could have said more that price depends of the materials that are used.
Quallity of critical things such as potmeters, vu-meters, capacitors tubes and trannies.
Cheap materials often goes with less dynamics and depth of the sound.
And what do you think of the price of a man hour in China against one in Zweden.
I would rate the preamps in a five star category.

* $ 0 - $ 500
** $ 500 - $ 1000
*** $ 1000 - $ 1750
**** $ 1750 - $ 2250
***** $ 2250 and up

greetz,

Paul
ohhhhhh, I have that pain behind my eyes.....
Old 25th March 2010
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Not in this universe. But I'll be glad to read your detailed and highly specific explanation to the contrary.
--Ethan

Ethan take a class in mechanics... I don't have the time or the patients to explain it to you.... I know I know... I really don't know. If that satisfies your request I'll go with that too. My 'steady state' response.........
Old 25th March 2010
  #154
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
I don't have the time or the patients to explain it to you.
LOL, this is classic! heh heh heh

A guy that has time to blather on over 53 posts in the last week alone suddenly can't find the time to defend his beliefs. Of course. This is so the ultimate cop-out!

Anyone care to wager if Robert will be back saying the same indefensible nonsense again and again anyway, even after admitting he doesn't know?

--Ethan
Old 25th March 2010
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Thanks for all the fantastic ammo TurboJets!

--Ethan
You're welcome my friend.
Old 25th March 2010
  #156
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gm5k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTrax View Post
ohhhhhh, I have that pain behind my eyes.....
what's sad is that young sluts come on here and believe that kind of drivel. then they start repeating things like that after they buy their first expensive preamp.

"OH MAN, NIGHT AND DAY!! ALMOST LIKE A BLANKET WAS LIFTED! I CAN'T BELIEVE I WAS EVEN ALLOWED TO HIT REC0RD BEFORE!" and the cycle continues...
Old 25th March 2010
  #157
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
LOL, this is classic! heh heh heh

A guy that has time to blather on over 53 posts in the last week alone suddenly can't find the time to defend his beliefs. Of course. This is so the ultimate cop-out!

Anyone care to wager if Robert will be back saying the same indefensible nonsense again and again anyway, even after admitting he doesn't know?

--Ethan
Ethan lets make a deal. You name the 200+ (or 10%) of the pres youve used then I will explain it to you. You are so defensive. It's hilarious. You completely missed my point. All I said was the aspects differ between electronic and mechanical. You say no? ok....

Your condescension is getting OLD.........
Old 25th March 2010
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
LOL, thanks for the link to the Massenburg interview. I saw some gems there that I'm sure will piss you off. Hell, his replies are right out of the script from my AES video. And remember this was 8 years ago! heh



^^^ SOURCE
^^^ SOURCE
^^^ SOURCE
Thanks for all the fantastic ammo TurboJets!

--Ethan
What does any of this have to do with preamps? Nice article, even if it is a bit old already.
An active discussion why are some preamps more competent (on average or generally, we all know that not for each and every particular case of course) than other with some of those developers would be something completely different.

And why talk about "ammo"? You could also extract "ammo" for the other side from that, too, if you think one should bring all the ideological baggage about ALL the topics in each and every thread, even if it is about a "specific" thing. I'm sure you noticed some of that "ammo" in that interview, too (clues - 24bit, dithering)

Sure, nothing is black and white and it is very cool to see down to earth philosophy of such people.

Ok, preamps then...
Old 25th March 2010
  #159
nkf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
(...) there really is nothing more to transient response than being able to pass high frequencies at a high level. (...) Indeed, a transient doesn't even have to 1) contain high frequencies or 2) be at a loud volume.
I stumbled over these statements as they seem partly logical contradictions. But maybe my English is not good enough. ... 'nothing more' ... and then 'doesn't have to' ...? I don't expect English lessons here but maybe this can be a bit elaborated?
Old 25th March 2010
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
No I didn't. See my Post #119 above.
By "breezed past" I meant - you wrote the words, but didn't go into any significant detail.

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by that, but you'd never want to intentionally limit the slew rate. And nobody I know of adds low-pass filtering to a mic pre just to avoid slew rate limiting.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. This is the input filter. I.e. a passive filter before the active electronics. It can be a transformer, since they will often provide this function intrinsically. If a designer decides that they need no filtering on the input for any other reason, they will still place one on to help limit slew rate artefacts. If they don't they are asking for problems. They may not be able to measure those problems easily (you can't see them with a THD measure) but exsit they will. (The need to avoid other interference effects means no competantly desiged pre will be without some passive filtering on the input, and some element of bandwidth limiting to reduce slew rate limiting will always be pasrt of that filter's function - even if there are no additional components explicitly there to do so.)

Quote:
Of course. The best way to know how a circuit performs is to measure it with appropriate test signals.
Absolutely. However my beef is that most bench measures don't include enough real world issues in those tests. Where do you see RF rejection measured? Where do you see RF/audio or UF/audio UF/UF intermodulation measured? Even audio frequency intermodulation measures are restricted in their breadth.

Quote:
All that said, there really is nothing more to transient response than being able to pass high frequencies at a high level.
Like I wrote - it is a close cousin. However "pass" isn't enough. If you test a pre with a high amplitude high frequency signal and it goes through with low distortion you are missing important things. You must measure the intermodulation effects.

You need to define "high". High isn't simply high audible frequencies. Microphones and real life sources can create significant ultrasonic energy. You need to measure the ability of the pre to both cope with, and avoid intermodulation with significant ultrasonic energy. I don't see common bench tests that do this. The standard IM tests use audible frequenciees.

A lot of the justification for measurements and range required performance of equipment comees from the reproduction side of the chain. Domestic HiFi systems don't (or at least should never) see high amplitude ultrasonic energy in their sources. But this simply isn't true for the recording side. Again, the standard IM test is really designed for the reproduction, not recording chain.

Quote:
but in the end a transient is simply a signal that changes level suddenly.
Semantically that is true (although a dictionary would argue that it should change back again too.) A transient is something that arrives and leaves again. But that is spliting hairs. However when we are talking about musical transients we often have a clear idea that we mean percussive sounds. So we need to look into the nature of that sound.
Old 25th March 2010
  #161
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
There is a Tape Op review of my work done by Mike Jasper, but they've held off publishing it.

I suspect they need that space to tell folks how to integrate their fuzz tones into their mix path...

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

you arent trendy/commercial enough. you dont have buzzwords and vintage magic.
Old 26th March 2010
  #162
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
patients
a rudimentary grasp of the English language and all of the uses therein= requirement for being taken seriously.

the word is patience.hehthumbsup
Old 26th March 2010
  #163
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Is it incorrect to think of Transients in terms of "Transients" and "Transient Details"?

One being high volume, percussive, attack oriented events that fade almost as quickly as they rose. That sometimes are even feed back by natural early reflections in a live room.

And the latter referencing low volume details like the clicking of the keys on a flute or the detail of fingernails or skin on the strings of an acoustic guitar..the subtle squeak of a chord change on an acoustic guitar.
Old 26th March 2010
  #164
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starseed's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
There's a local band here doing very well... sort of Coldplay-ish" "The guy does have a world class voice though... and probably sounds like that through anything"
Great song, to be sure! Thanks for the link
Old 26th March 2010
  #165
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
On what do you base this? I know you said "IMO" but there are opinions based on knowledge, and then there are opinions based on fantasy. Do you have any hard proof that a hand-wired circuit sounds any different than a PCB? In what way does it differ? Frequency response? Distortion? Background hiss? What exactly? Please be as specific as possible.

BTW, I hope you don't take this as an attack because that's not my intent. My hope is that you'll question how you came to the conclusion that hand wired circuits sound better than PCBs

--Ethan
This is what I get for not reading the thread at 2 am. lol. I was thinking
in terms of compressors and other gear, not mic pres....

Anyway, to answer your question in a broad way, I feel that companies
who do everything by hand have a better sound and use higher quality
components on things and do have less noise and cleaner
circuitry wiring whereas PCB things tend to be on the cheaper
side and a little messy which makes things more cost-effective for end users so some quality has to be
sacrificed for cost which ends up sounding less than it could potentially
sound.

I also find non-PCB gear to be more reliable in terms of wear and tear
and smaller companies also have tremendous tech support which is a plus
when buying gear. Some companies like to tell people to buy a new one
where others will tell you to send it in and they'll fix it free of charge.

I'm not saying all companies and components are this way, there are
units out there on PCB that sound great too.

Everything is subjective.
Old 26th March 2010
  #166
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston View Post
It's funny when people say stuff like that. It proves ignorance.

Dan Kennedy (as well as other designers) and I have had this discussion so many times. Just the transformers alone in Dan's preamps sitting on a kitchen table cost more than the sum total of the parts in some cheap preamps. Even more than some cheap consoles.
I'm not talking about difference in price of parts but in the actual perceived difference in what the product is intended for (i.e., the sound).
Old 26th March 2010
  #167
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray View Post
a rudimentary grasp of the English language and all of the uses therein= requirement for being taken seriously.

the word is patience.hehthumbsup
no need to be so negative all time. It is not healthy hehthumbsup Everyone makes mistakes. I am not all that dumb compared to most other people (like me) who do not have a a rudimentary grasp of the English language. heh

but I will say kindly quit attacking me. It is not warranted. Go pick on the other 50 people on this thread who agree with my view of quality gear and discrete design and short signal paaaaathsszz. Since who knows? maybe they can actually spell too? And who knows maybe they are right? or is it may be we are write? or rite? or is it ? Ah shucks......

Nothing like holding a 283av in your bare hand. It must be the same sensation the pilgrims felt grasping a sack of sand from old Cole's Hill on Plymouth long beach in 1620. You feel the power !!!! the energy!!! The energy of something truly important in the history of time. Granted it is all relative. I am by no means comparing the feeling of freedom and pilgrimage with a discreet design. But it is similar in a mojo kind of way in a NAND or a AND' (prime) kinda way.. In essence, pcb design in audio is a pilgrimage away from the old school audiophile glory days of discrete class A electronics that the founding fathers of recording had the pleasure of creating with. This aspect cannot be overlooked. It shall not be forgotten and it has not been forgotten. In fact these devices of the glory days are as popular today as they were when they were first designed. Much like Thanksgiving is as popular today as it was the day William Brewster, William Bradford and William Burroughs ( and crew) roasted a feathered foul with local native Americans on thanksgiving day way back when in the presence of the lonely distraught shipwrecked SS Mayflower. Front, bow. Back, stern. If ya don't get it right, squirt, I throw you out the little round window on the side.

As we remember the pilgrimage from the grips of the churches of the 17th Century (thank you Martin Luther) we must also recognize the potential dangers of a such a inverse pilgrimage from the discrete audio designs of the 20th century as we know exist within the current century (21?). (thank you Rupert).......... moment of silence please! Hail to the 1073, 1066, 1084 and the Telefunken V72.... heck give it up for the Siemens version too. It is all good if it is in fact discrete. But I must draw the line there, when data becomes discrete I smell trouble. If I see a piece of audio from the registers of a CPU's radix point, mantissa and or program counter, there will be heck to pay. Hail to the 16 track 2in format and the shortest most discrete audio paths possible to retain transient response all in the name of Pro Audio. Keyword here is PRO [bold added].

If I solder with rosin core am I a lesser man than had I soldered with Au(akashining dawn) old #79? or to you simply known as Gold?? perhaps with the modest material of Ag (aka the 'shining dawn') old atomic # 47 or to you simply known as silver?? Or is it acceptable to use solder comprising of lead from China? that's (pronounced /ˈlɛd/, led) not
(ld)....... What about that signal path? All conductive material shall be equal in the eyes of a novice? who is i nthis case me?

so have 'patience' sit back and listen and learn and avoid confrontation at all cost since it will only confuse the topic
at hand. Which in this case is signal and audio quality....(quality = inherent or distinguishing characteristic).... not spelling errors or in absence of grammar or ignorance. Lucky the universe can be explained and conveyed through the abstraction of mathematics and not through the convoluted foolishness and illogical 'rules' of a language we call of English. Which!!!! by the way.... is only respected by fools (foosl vado in) and only utilized by a mere .1% of the world's actual population simply out of necessity and not choice :-/\ If that doesn't explain things then I can be of no help.
Old 26th March 2010
  #168
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalGropher View Post
This is what I get for not reading the thread at 2 am. lol. I was thinking
in terms of compressors and other gear, not mic pres....

Anyway, to answer your question in a broad way, I feel that companies
who do everything by hand have a better sound and use higher quality
components on things and do have less noise and cleaner
circuitry wiring whereas PCB things tend to be on the cheaper
side and a little messy which makes things more cost-effective for end users so some quality has to be
sacrificed for cost which ends up sounding less than it could potentially
sound.

I also find non-PCB gear to be more reliable in terms of wear and tear
and smaller companies also have tremendous tech support which is a plus
when buying gear. Some companies like to tell people to buy a new one
where others will tell you to send it in and they'll fix it free of charge.

I'm not saying all companies and components are this way, there are
units out there on PCB that sound great too.

Everything is subjective.

+1

Well discrete electronics is all about it. Shorter signal paths man........
Audiophile heaven. Problem with pcb design is there are lots of problems with pcb design..... in general
Old 26th March 2010
  #169
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post

change back again
some good points, change is the keyword

Transient response of a semiconductor vs Transient Response of a a discrete design vs pcb design? then Transient Response of the input vs transient Response of the amplified signal vs the transient response of the output.... where exactly is the signal comprised under what conditions in which design scenario? as it is constantly changing? Those are the questions. Cheap components will compromise, just based on the basic principles of conductivity. Crack open a 2408 and look at the harnessing if that's even what you call it. Not so robust. It's ultimately all about the to ability to respond rapidly to a changing signal. Does the cheap stuff do this? Does it have the capability to do this? based on components and construction alone? And then what about the circuit design itself? independent of components and build quality? Not only how it's 'wired' but how it is wired. What about it?
Old 26th March 2010
  #170
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
+1

Well discrete electronics is all about it. Shorter signal paths man........
Audiophile heaven. Problem with pcb design is there are lots of problems with pcb design..... in general
tr00f! I have spent the majority of my life in PC repair, so I know how PCBs can be... and how ugly some things are wired up.
Old 26th March 2010
  #171
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TurboJets's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalGropher View Post
Anyway, to answer your question in a broad way, I feel that companies
who do everything by hand have a better sound and use higher quality
components on things and do have less noise and cleaner
circuitry wiring whereas PCB things tend to be on the cheaper
side and a little messy which makes things more cost-effective for end users so some quality has to be
sacrificed for cost which ends up sounding less than it could potentially
sound.
I have a hand-wired guitar distortion pedal that makes my other pedals with their little surface mounted (sometimes glued LOL) components sound...well...small. It's like a pitbull compared to a pomeranian. Sometimes I feel like I should throw it a piece of meat or something. Huge! The sound! Huge!

Same thing with handwired pre's, even pre's in an antique consumer open reel deck. Thick, substantial, meaty...HUGE!
Old 26th March 2010
  #172
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets View Post
I have a hand-wired guitar distortion pedal that makes my other pedals with their little surface mounted (sometimes glued LOL) components sound...well...small. It's like a pitbull compared to a pomeranian. Sometimes I feel like I should throw it a piece of meat or something. Huge! The sound! Huge!

Same thing with handwired pre's, even pre's in an antique consumer open reel deck. Thick, substantial, meaty...HUGE!
Are we talking boss pedals or something else? haha.
Old 26th March 2010
  #173
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TurboJets's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalGropher View Post
Are we talking boss pedals or something else? haha.
Boss pedals are pretty cool but this one in particular is called the Tubester and is basically a copy of the original Tube Driver pedal by Chandler. Even allows you to control the amount of voltage to the tube...smokin'. I'm sorry but you just can't touch sound like that with anything I've heard or own with surface mounted components. Is it the only distortion pedal I have or use? No, no way...variety is cool and everything has it's place, right? But one listen and you know any argument about surface mount pcb type pedals being comparable to hand wired pedals is a waste of time. I know that's not the focus of this thread but the challenge was kinda silly I thought, and i agreed with you.
Old 26th March 2010
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets View Post
Boss pedals are pretty cool but this one in particular is called the Tubester and is basically a copy of the original Tube Driver pedal by Chandler. Even allows you to control the amount of voltage to the tube...smokin'. I'm sorry but you just can't touch sound like that with anything I've heard or own with surface mounted components. Is it the only distortion pedal I have or use? No, no way...variety is cool and everything has it's place, right? But one listen and you know any argument about surface mount pcb type pedals being comparable to hand wired pedals is a waste of time. I know that's not the focus of this thread but the challenge was kinda silly I thought, and i agreed with you.
boss always made a great digital delay pedal, dirty but effective.
Old 26th March 2010
  #175
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets View Post
Boss pedals are pretty cool but this one in particular is called the Tubester and is basically a copy of the original Tube Driver pedal by Chandler. Even allows you to control the amount of voltage to the tube...smokin'. I'm sorry but you just can't touch sound like that with anything I've heard or own with surface mounted components. Is it the only distortion pedal I have or use? No, no way...variety is cool and everything has it's place, right? But one listen and you know any argument about surface mount pcb type pedals being comparable to hand wired pedals is a waste of time. I know that's not the focus of this thread but the challenge was kinda silly I thought, and i agreed with you.
No I believe your input is valuable to this thread as I explained in my response, I was speaking in
broad terms so I believe you are allowed to post this relevant content sir.

You know...I just thought of a really good idea...how about recording
that tubester and then use another pedal and let us see if we can tell
which is PCB and which isn't . That would also be relevant to the thread
and could pwn some people.
Old 26th March 2010
  #176
Lives for gear
 

Don't get too hung up on the advantages of handwires versus PCBs. There are pros and cons for each, and much is in the skill of the designer, and the effort made. It simply isn't viable to make many devices on anything but a PCB. Where I get annoyed is when you get a pathetic single layer PCB where the layout is little more than a transcription of the schematic pushed and shoved to cope with the component's physical shape. This will not get a good result. The PCB (or any wireing) is an integral component of the design. Not understanding this leads to a lot of issues. A modern multi-layer PCB allows for design and layout possibilities that are impossible with hard wireing. These can drastically reduce the effects of all sorts of second order problems that are not obvious when the circuit schematic is analysed. A circuit is a 3D object, and you need to understand the 3D nature of the traces. Energy couplings abound, care and feeding of the return currents critical, and understanding the critical nature of any grounds vital. A well designed PCB can have interference, noise, and distortion issues significantly less than any other. A poor layout can compound these issues.

Tube based gear is of course a difficult hybrid. Heat issues makes it difficult to make a reliable device on a PCB. Possible, but it takes more care than many designs seem to embody.
Old 26th March 2010
  #177
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Darn you forgot harmonics, try getting that from a mackie....haha
The OP could have asked why 2 drums don't sound the same in the studio !!! Let's not go there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darm View Post
noise
frequency responce
distortion
transient responce
Old 26th March 2010
  #178
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Bubbakron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
To be honest I'm not a preamp fanatic and I hate to start another preamp thread heh

But this is something I noticed for a long time, and wondered whether it has any truth in it or if others agree. My observations aren't scientific nor culled from any calibrated comparisons or shootout.

When I listen to soloed tracks of cheaper preamp recordings (earlier gen Mackies, Behringers etc), I don't hear much difference with similar tracks recorded with boutique pres (compared at same listening levels) when the source material is within a normal, comfortable dynamic range - i.e. no loud passages.

However once the source material has loud passages (not necessary transients, but also longer loud passages like vocal notes), I always notice the cheaper pres kind of alters the dynamic curve of the actual performance - i.e. it doesn't sound as explosive and impactful when it transits from soft to loud passages as it is supposed to sound. I hesitate to use the word "smear" but that is actually the closest word I can find heh And I don't think this is the famed transformer "smear" that is supposed to be euphonic. This type of smear IMO makes the recording sound dull and "small".

Do others notice that or am I just mad? And more importantly, is recording at lower preamp gain - so that there will be more "headroom" reserved to allow the loud passages to "bloom" fully - the way to optimise the sonic performance of cheaper pres? I mean in the digital world we can scale up the gain as much as want anyway.

Just an idea, because I have read that all pres have an optimum range of their gain.

Thanks for any insight
The drummer makes all the difference, so less is more!!!!!!!!!!
Old 26th March 2010
  #179
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalGropher View Post
This is what I get for not reading the thread at 2 am. lol. I was thinking
in terms of compressors and other gear, not mic pres....

Anyway, to answer your question in a broad way, I feel that companies
who do everything by hand have a better sound and use higher quality
components on things and do have less noise and cleaner
circuitry wiring whereas PCB things tend to be on the cheaper
side and a little messy which makes things more cost-effective for end users so some quality has to be
sacrificed for cost which ends up sounding less than it could potentially
sound.

I also find non-PCB gear to be more reliable in terms of wear and tear
and smaller companies also have tremendous tech support which is a plus
when buying gear. Some companies like to tell people to buy a new one
where others will tell you to send it in and they'll fix it free of charge.

I'm not saying all companies and components are this way, there are
units out there on PCB that sound great too.

Everything is subjective.
I wire ALL my gear by hand and point to point..It would make NO sense at all to wire point to point and use a CHEAP part...what would be the point..BUT I do see some gear doing just that.
I hand select/test critical parts, something a low end company could not do..and still make money..

The sound ONLY is not what I look at when comparing gear..I look at EVERYTHING..
A $29.00 stomp box has a SOUND, but that in NO way makes it HIGH END..IMHO..
Old 26th March 2010
  #180
Lives for gear
 
TurboJets's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalGropher View Post
You know...I just thought of a really good idea...how about recording
that tubester and then use another pedal and let us see if we can tell
which is PCB and which isn't . That would also be relevant to the thread
and could pwn some people.
I'd be happy to do that but fear in this environment no matter how I create or record the comparison files it would be "deemed" un-scientific and start a whole new pissing contest...which of course is fruitless. It would be easy enough though to make sure each pedal is set to equal relative values for volume/distortion/tone, etc. Even without engaging the Tubester's feature for controlling Tube Plate Voltage the differences are nothing short of dramatic. The plate voltage control though is just Twisted - I mean Twisted. Point to point wiring, silver teflon coated wire, the works. Any argument that handwired gear is no different than PCB stuff is just silly. Teflon coated silver wired vs. copper circuit paths on a pcb? Please. And that's just one little difference. I imagine Nosebleedaudio's $29 pedals would stomp most pcb pedals into the bloody dirt like a worm.

If there's enough interest expressed though, I'll do it just for the heck of it.
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