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MX-10 Summing
Old 16th July 2005
  #1
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abit's Avatar
 

MX-10 Summing

Need an advise.
If somebody have an experience with mx-10
please read.

The story is.
I'm in process of setting up a new studio with summing.
Not commercial privet place.
Most of the time R&B.

I was searching for something on ebay and
bumped in to a lot,
where guy was selling mx-10.
When I opened page " Riders on the storm" started.

It was a very sort of primitive and very General Midi file,
but..
The SOUND of this "General MIDI" shocked me.
It was so warm and beautifully colored..

I was glued to this thing..

So to make short story long:
As of to day I got two of mx-10's in order
to couple them.
I didn't plug anything yet,
cuz at the moment I just can't.
Everything is apart.
But my guy did a maintenance on them.
Then I started to read manual(how stupid I'm).
Where they say mic in impendance 200ohm.
Ooops..

Does it means I cant really use coupled mx-10s
as a summing ?
Cuz I have line signals from my DA.
Or I can modify mic inputs?
I mean, 2 line ins by default doesn't give me to much space
for maneuvers.
(If it's not doable - gonna keep at least one,
doesn't matter what)

Any ideas, please
Thanx.
Old 16th July 2005
  #2
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abit's Avatar
 

mx-10

PS
I'm sure there is a way to modify mic to line,
but how really practical this whole idea in general.
Old 16th July 2005
  #3
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gyraf's Avatar
 

Sorry to ask if it should be obvious, but: What is a MX-10?

I know of a great mic pre from Danfield of that name, but somehow I don't think that's what you're referring to?

Jakob E.
Old 16th July 2005
  #4
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brianroth's Avatar
 

Ampex made an MX-10 as well as an MX-35...same circuitry, different cosmetics. Low Z mic in, medium impedance (unbalanced) out.

Is this the product being discussed?

Bri
Old 16th July 2005
  #5
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I own an Ampex MX 10. I have used an Altec 1567A. Both Multi-Mic Mixers. Altec has a bass and treble knob, and 4 inputs and 1 output, Ampex has no EQ with 4 in 2 out. Both have line and mic ins. I have used these as Mic Pres mostly. I love them on Drums and Bass. I use the Ampex primarily on Drum Room Mics into a Urei 1176LN. They are pin 3 hot, and usually need a -15db pad in front of them. I think I prefer the Altec over the Ampex as far as the way it reacts to Drums and Bass. As far as summing, I love the Ampex on Hammond B3's, 2 top mics in stereo and 1 bottom mic on the Leslie, 3 mics in 2 out.

100% tube not a transistor in sight.


www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 17th July 2005
  #6
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abit's Avatar
 

Yep.
Ampex MX-10.
mtstudi, thanx for info.
Old 17th July 2005
  #7
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

At least some MX 10's have switchable line inputs on channels 3 & 4.
gyraf, it's a 4x2 tube mixer made by Ampex in the early 60's, a great sounding piece.
I use one frequently as 2 mic pres.

Bob Ohlsson (sorry, Bob, if I misspelled your name) posted a pic here a few months ago of the Motown CR from 1963, there's an MX10 in the rack. I have that pic taped to the rack under the MX10 at Lingo where I do a lot of my work.
Old 17th July 2005
  #8
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

abit, did you ever know a guy named walters?
Old 18th July 2005
  #9
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abit's Avatar
 

Well.. - Bill Walters?
Motown..?
U have my full attention Berol.
Old 18th July 2005
  #10
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

We had both MX-10/35s and the Altecs. Back then the Ampexes sounded a lot better than the Altec unless you wanted to use the tone controls which we did for the guitar mix.

MX-10s were really designed for ribbons and dynamics. Some condensers, especially Neumanns, needed to be padded up from 50 to 150 Ohms in order to avoid a nasty transformer interaction that made them sound really bright. (The same was true of RCA preamps) They also required a really high impedance load having been designed to drive the unbalanced bridge input of an Ampex 351.
Old 19th July 2005
  #11
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abit's Avatar
 

Bob, I really appeared your input on subject,
from the "first hand" so to say old school titan.
Full respect.


Now,
would U mind guys if we scroll back to the start point:
the question was about summing.
It's a lot about summing lately.
And my plan was to use nostalgic beautiful mx10s
as a back end primary by coupling them together.

B3 - 3 mics - mx10 - very classy....

I'm thinking what I'm gonna get from the whole mix?
Am I gonna be washed all over.
What if I need punch somewhere.
I mean if this is a good idea in general?

Unfotunatily can't try anything now as I said.


What would be the best way to decrees that LINE voltage from Apogee or
midi.
Wich pad just to buy or what modification would U recommend ppl.

Sorry, so many questions.
Old 21st July 2005
  #12
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=abit]

B3 - 3 mics - mx10 - very classy....

I'm thinking what I'm gonna get from the whole mix?
Am I gonna be washed all over.
What if I need punch somewhere.
I mean if this is a good idea in general?
[QUOTE=abit]

My answer to your questions:
You can't fully know all this until the song is completed, and the mixing process begins. As you know, all you can do is go with your gut in the tracking process and focus on the vision of production for the song being recorded. Sometimes it rears it little head at the half way point and you gotta go with it and change direction. I sometimes record a B3 direct when the organ has that as an option. Sometimes while mixing I ace the lower mic, and only use the two mics in stereo I recorded. I figured the MX 10 on a B3 was a good example of Mic Summing 3 tracks to a stereo track, which has worked for me. I would be willing to bet, all MX 10's don't sound the same either. That being said, your MX 10 might not work at all in this application.


www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 22nd July 2005
  #13
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abit's Avatar
 

U right,
I'll play it by ear.

and thanx everybody for your help guyz.
Old 5th July 2007
  #14
Gear Head
 

Radial D2 Passive DI suitable Ampex mx-10 output ?

HI all thought I'd resurrect this old thread to ask advice on the following.

I am the proud owner of an Ampex MX-10 that I love the sound of.
They do have a high output impedance (designed to drive loads of 100kohm as Bob Ohlsson kindly mentioned) and I'm looking for the best way to help the MX-10 interact with 600ohm rated line inputs etc.

SO...

the Radial D2 stereo passive DI with transformers seems a good match to me at a glance though I'm not well experienced with using DI's except live.

Its input is rated at 100kohm and output at 600ohm, however hook up directions and general talk of DI's seems to be about matching instruments to mic inputs... Was wondering if anyone could help re their suitability for matching a HI Z to a lower Z line input.... would it be able to drive the 600ohm rated source impedance of an old compressor for example?

Thanks

Tim
Old 5th July 2007
  #15
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brianroth's Avatar
 

A DI transformer will step-down the signal levels from "line" to mic.

I don't have a specific suggestion, but to interface the MX-10 into "600 Ohm land" will require a line amplifier/buffer.

You could do it with an opamp <g>.

Bri
Old 5th July 2007
  #16
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abit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat man View Post
I am the proud owner of an Ampex MX-10 that I love the sound
Tim, I don't remember what exactly we did there, and I'm very not techy guy,
but we put some resistors to
1&2 Mics Ins, so it's OK to plug Neumann in it, cuz initially it's for ribbons, right?!
and
For 3&4 another Pad (resistors but bigger. I think we dropped it about 40db or so), so I can use it for line signals.
Works fine.

Why I need to plug my line signal in to mic input, if I can use given line input.
Simply cuz line switch bypass input amp with all tubes and fat I want in there.

As a result Im not using line switch at all.
Hope I explained it right.
abit
Old 6th July 2007
  #17
Gear Head
 

Thanks for your help guys,

Shame about the DI Bri , but it makes sense,

Ill look in to the line amp ... buffer possibilities... I was hoping failing a DI a simple matching transformer might help.

trying to keep the path as simple as possible really but I guess there has to be some compensation for level loss with a step down transformer...?


Just to clarify, I'm referring to the line outputs.

thanks

Tim
Old 6th July 2007
  #18
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abit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by labcoat man View Post
Just to clarify, I'm referring to the line outputs.
thanks

Tim
Ooops..
heh
Pardon me.
And I just said what I know about input.
Cheers
Old 4th April 2008
  #19
Gear Nut
 

so...

How did the MX 10 work as a summing amp? Are you using it? Did it do the "rider's on the storm" midi file magic you heard on the ebay page?

-jas
Old 6th January 2010
  #20
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abit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RABE View Post
How did the MX 10 work as a summing amp? Are you using it? Did it do the "rider's on the storm" midi file magic you heard on the ebay page?

-jas
Some how I missed this post. But better (2 years) late then never.

One MX-10 was sold and 2nd is here and used on basically every mix at a stereo output of Amek BCIII.
As you can see my summing is a board witch changed sound a lot in a good way. The board is a magic by itself I think . Plus magic of MX-10 in the end.
This combination feels very sweet and truly satisfied to me.
Old 22nd February 2014
  #21
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MT Studios
Matt! What's up bud!
I'm looking to do a very similar thing with an MX10/35
Basically, running a finished mix through it... Out of my DAW and back.
I'll also use it it as a mic pre
Suggestions?
thank you
Old 23rd February 2014
  #22
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Yes, you can do that using the line inputs on channels 3 and 4. You can also add line input to the first two channels and unbalanced direct outs to all four. This way you can sum 4 mono or two stereo line signals or use it as 4 separate mic pres. Vintage Tube Mixer Direct Ouputs (RCA, Ampex, Altec, Etc.) | Analog Audio Repair
Old 23rd February 2014
  #23
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brianroth's Avatar
 

Keep in mind that the "main" outputs (on the XLRs) are relatively high impedance and unbalanced, being driven by the wiper of a 25K pot. Unbalanced "direct" outs for individual channels would have an even higher impedance.

Bri
Old 23rd February 2014
  #24
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mjrippe's Avatar
 

You are quite correct Brian. They work OK into high-z inputs of most converters but you can't drive an LA-2A with them!
Old 25th February 2014
  #25
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Thanks for the info guys...
I have a UAD Apollo 16
Think it work? I only really need stereo in and out and I'll use a couple channels as mic pre's
I'm also wondering would I be able to plug in a bass direct (or a drum machine etc) or would it be better to use a DI into one of the mic pre inputs?
thanks!
Old 25th February 2014
  #26
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I'm using Pro Tools 10/11
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