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Electrolytic Cap Recommendations? Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 6th September 2008
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Electrolytic Cap Recommendations?

What are the best sounding electrolytic caps at 10mf and 47mf? We are upgrading an audio path in a console.. cost is no object, however size is somewhat of an issue. Thanks
Old 7th September 2008
  #2
Rubycon Black Gates. Get them from Michael Percy.com. Just keep in mind they won't last as long as some of the new formulations in 105 degreed ratings.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 9th September 2008
  #3
Lives for gear
 
ulysses's Avatar
For the 10µF caps, I would try to replace the electrolytics with film caps. The WIMA MKS-2XL polyester caps have a 0.2" lead spacing which might allow them to be installed in place of your electrolytics. For the 47µF caps, you'll find that film caps will be substantially larger than the electrolytics. If you have the space, you can find a film cap to go in there. But generally it'll be more practical and effective to either find ways to eliminate the need for the capacitor, or reduce the necessary capacitance (by increasing its load resistance), or simply use a good electrolytic cap and bypass it with a smaller film cap. I personally consider Panasonic FM and Nichicon HE caps to be the most advanced electrolytics available, and I consider them to be essentially equivalent to one another. Most "Audio Grade" caps are really just general-purpose caps with shiny wrappers and higher prices.
Old 10th September 2008
  #4
Justin is spot on here. I do use those Wima MKS-2 polyester caps in the 5 mm lead spacing, but you do pay for those. The are about $3~4 a piece and still benefit from a small MKP or FKP polyprop bypass cap. 10 uf isn't available in the FM or HE series, but Rubycon does make a great 10 uf in their ZA series. Rubycon was the first to make the super low impedance electrolytic tantalum replacements back in the 1990's

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Last edited by Jim Williams; 10th September 2008 at 04:29 PM.. Reason: speeling
Old 10th September 2008
  #5
I have a number of equalisers from the mid eigtties. they're loaded with rubycons. (light blue color, dark blue stripe for the + side. they read on the outside 8240 85 degrees)
anybody got experience with these caps.. ?
I will replace them with something suggested above.

thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Electrolytic Cap Recommendations?-picture-7.jpg  
Old 10th September 2008
  #6

did I ask a dumb question?
trying to grasp the difference between those, if there is?
if there isn't, that is useful info too.


chirp chirp
Old 11th September 2008
  #7
Here's what I would do. First, install machine sockets for the 1976 designed 5532A opamps. Next, the stacked film caps would be replaced by Wima FKP-2 or MKP-2 polyprop caps, they should fit. The iron I would have Bill Whitlock at Jensen cross for me. Next, I would first use National LME49860NA opamps, rated at + - 22 volts like the 5532. Check DC offsets at the output pins of the opamps, # 1 and #7. If the DC offsets are below a few millivolts, consider bridging the electrolytic Rubycon caps. If DC offsets are found, replace them with Nichicon HE or Panasonic FM, increase the values by 2 to 4 times to extend the low end and reduce phase shift. Bypass with Wima MKP-2 .01 uf polyprop film caps. That should get you to to neutral land.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 11th September 2008
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Here's what I would do. First, install machine sockets for the 1976 designed 5532A opamps. Next, the stacked film caps would be replaced by Wima FKP-2 or MKP-2 polyprop caps, they should fit. The iron I would have Bill Whitlock at Jensen cross for me. Next, I would first use National LME49860NA opamps, rated at + - 22 volts like the 5532. Check DC offsets at the output pins of the opamps, # 1 and #7. If the DC offsets are below a few millivolts, consider bridging the electrolytic Rubycon caps. If DC offsets are found, replace them with Nichicon HE or Panasonic FM, increase the values by 2 to 4 times to extend the low end and reduce phase shift. Bypass with Wima MKP-2 .01 uf polyprop film caps. That should get you to to neutral land.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
thank you for the extensive answer. as always! thumbsup
I got a number of these, going to see if I can do something myself, if not I'll know what to do..

oh btw, the iron is good. Haufe, not simular but on par with Jensen. (nice flat freq response and they make the lowend less flabby)
which caps do I have to bypass? the ones for the opamps or all of em?

going to look now for the IC sockets. this is all new to me. heh
Old 11th September 2008
  #9
All electrolytic caps should be replaced, especially the power supply bypass caps. Wima polyprop film bypasses on PSU caps arn't necessary but do help transient response in some cases. Local .1 uf mono ceramics are usually sufficiant.

Jensens are all I use. They are the only audio transformers designed with linear phase response, worth the cost. You will hear the difference.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 13th September 2008
  #10
thanks again, will do heh
Old 22nd November 2009
  #11
Is it a good idea to use WIMA polyester in a power supply? I have some 1uF and 10uF caps in a DBX 163X I'm re-working.
Old 22nd November 2009
  #12
[QUOTE

going to look now for the IC sockets. this is all new to me. heh[/QUOTE]

Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor

should have some nice I.C. socket solutions for you.
Old 23rd November 2009
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
All electrolytic caps should be replaced, especially the power supply bypass caps. Wima polyprop film bypasses on PSU caps arn't necessary but do help transient response in some cases. Local .1 uf mono ceramics are usually sufficiant.

Jensens are all I use. They are the only audio transformers designed with linear phase response, worth the cost. You will hear the difference.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Hi Jim,

are you sure about replacing Haufe for Jensen? Not long ago someone measured current model of 10k/10k line in Haufe, and the results were very, very good. For example, transformer had linear response to 1MHz (the limit of instrument used for measurement). I know there is much more to it than just freq. response, but it can give you the idea of quality..
And knowing that Jensen is making some transformers based on Reichenbach patents, i would also look at Cinemag models. This is what i'm using for mic in, line in/out transformers and like them a lot.
Also, can you hear or measure any improvement when bypassing 47u lytic coupling cap with 0,01u film polypropylen? I read that bypassing cap should have at least 1/10th capacitance of bypassed cap. I never tested it myself..

Miha
Old 16th October 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses View Post
For the 10µF caps, I would try to replace the electrolytics with film caps. The WIMA MKS-2XL polyester caps have a 0.2" lead spacing which might allow them to be installed in place of your electrolytics. For the 47µF caps, you'll find that film caps will be substantially larger than the electrolytics. If you have the space, you can find a film cap to go in there. But generally it'll be more practical and effective to either find ways to eliminate the need for the capacitor, or reduce the necessary capacitance (by increasing its load resistance), or simply use a good electrolytic cap and bypass it with a smaller film cap. I personally consider Panasonic FM and Nichicon HE caps to be the most advanced electrolytics available, and I consider them to be essentially equivalent to one another. Most "Audio Grade" caps are really just general-purpose caps with shiny wrappers and higher prices.
WIMA MKS-2XL seems to be discontinued!
Old 7th November 2010
  #15
Gear Addict
 
The Convicted's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Here's what I would do. First, install machine sockets for the 1976 designed 5532A opamps. Next, the stacked film caps would be replaced by Wima FKP-2 or MKP-2 polyprop caps, they should fit. The iron I would have Bill Whitlock at Jensen cross for me. Next, I would first use National LME49860NA opamps, rated at + - 22 volts like the 5532. Check DC offsets at the output pins of the opamps, # 1 and #7. If the DC offsets are below a few millivolts, consider bridging the electrolytic Rubycon caps. If DC offsets are found, replace them with Nichicon HE or Panasonic FM, increase the values by 2 to 4 times to extend the low end and reduce phase shift. Bypass with Wima MKP-2 .01 uf polyprop film caps. That should get you to to neutral land.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
.01uf wima caps......Does the voltage rating matter? 400v, 250v, or 100v?
Old 7th November 2010
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Jensens are all I use. They are the only audio transformers designed with linear phase response, worth the cost.
Not true. Lundahl make transformers which are every bit as transparent as Jensen's and I'm sure there are other manufacturers who do also.
Old 10th November 2010
  #17
I guess it's more a question of "mr. Williams knows for sure the Jensen are good".
I'm not an expert, don't even have necessary measuring tools, but my ears tell me the other transformers can be are as good or better than Jensen or Cinemag. So here's my idea about it FWIW:
Malotki & WSW - huge soundstage, improvement: more focus on transients, sounds beautiful, impossible to overload, very true to source.
Haufe - depends on which one in which machine, the ones in my V675 are some of the best I've ever heard - most of em are in zero ohm designs. So comparing the unbalanced output of those, if the modules have one. (most amps of this kind (german broadcast) do)
Lundahl - Slightly flattering, sort of "classical" details. Got some in my Kultube SPL (much more definition) and heard Calrec modules. Very nice.
http://www.prodigy-pro.com/diy/index.php?topic=13294.0
Jensen - added to the API 550a inputs, clean with some extra definition in the lows, made it even "better" sounding. A little less flattering than the Lundahl.

Just plunked for a battery of Malotki. They weigh more than the whole mixer incl. PSU. heh

transformers rock!

ooops it's about caps, sorry for the OT: I got a box of Panasonic FM, and Nichicon HE.
Old 10th November 2010
  #18
Lives for gear
 
JohnRoberts's Avatar
 

If a transformer sounds significantly different than a Jensen (when used as designed to be used), that difference is not caused by less distortion or less deviation from an ideal response. While one may subjectively prefer some added nonlinearity, that is not IMO objectively better.

Jensen is not the only maker of quality transformers, but there is probably more difference between otherwise similar transformer models from different manufacturers than for other components.

JR
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