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DIY Speakers Modular Synthesizers
Old 23rd January 2008
  #1
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DIY Speakers

The fellas up in Mastering pretty much insist you need some might fine speakers for Mastering. I just can't afford them. Anyone know of any DIY speakers that are of audiophile quality for a reasonable price?
Old 23rd January 2008
  #2
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check out the local craigslist... audiofools change their sytems regularly and real good deals are to be had... it may take a week or two and ya may need to research some brands but well worth the effort...
Old 23rd January 2008
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith View Post
The fellas up in Mastering pretty much insist you need some might fine speakers for Mastering. I just can't afford them. Anyone know of any DIY speakers that are of audiophile quality for a reasonable price?
Mass production is always more reasonably priced than custom made things, especially manufactured in China production against made in USA custom things.
Old 23rd January 2008
  #4
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Marik's Avatar
 

Check a couple very popular excellent Zaph's designes:

Zaph|Audio - SR71

and

Zaph|Audio-L18
Old 24th January 2008
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Mass production is always more reasonably priced than custom made things, especially manufactured in China production against made in USA custom things.
I hardly think I want to mastering on a production line speaker, let alone one from China. My goal is not cheap, my goal is custom for far less than what I would have to pay a company to do it. My brother-in-law has a wood/machine shop in his basement to die for.
Old 24th January 2008
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik View Post
Check a couple very popular excellent Zaph's designes:

Zaph|Audio - SR71

and

Zaph|Audio-L18

Thanks, that looks very promising, the one that really caught my eye was this:

Zaph|Audio - ZDT3
Old 24th January 2008
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith View Post
I hardly think I want to mastering on a production line speaker, let alone one from China. My goal is not cheap, my goal is custom for far less than what I would have to pay a company to do it. My brother-in-law has a wood/machine shop in his basement to die for.
Good idea;
but if it is not for production so no need for shipment you may afford concrete boxes; they would sound much better than wood: no problems with surface resonances (stiffness) and reactive oscillations (mass).

Here you may see the secret how I make woofers:

http://wavebourn.com/images/domeg/woofers.gif

http://wavebourn.com/images/audio/woofer-12inch-1.gif

http://wavebourn.com/images/audio/woofer-12inch-3.gif

Monitors with good bass is the mast: recently I've bought a CD of Josh Groban, but can't listen it without EQ: some kick drum sounds on frequencies below 40 Hz too loud (my home Hifi is flat from 16 Hz to at least 24 KHz). Most probably mastering engineer used nice stock Yamaha monitors or something similar so could not hear that drum properly...
Old 24th January 2008
  #8


Madisound has good kits. You can buy them with or without cabinets.

They design the cross-overs and do a good job.


DIY Speaker Kits from Madisound Speaker Components, Inc.



-tINY

Old 24th January 2008
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Good idea;
but if it is not for production so no need for shipment you may afford concrete boxes; they would sound much better than wood: no problems with surface resonances (stiffness) and reactive oscillations (mass).

Here you may see the secret how I make woofers:

http://wavebourn.com/images/domeg/woofers.gif

http://wavebourn.com/images/audio/woofer-12inch-1.gif

http://wavebourn.com/images/audio/woofer-12inch-3.gif

Monitors with good bass is the mast: recently I've bought a CD of Josh Groban, but can't listen it without EQ: some kick drum sounds on frequencies below 40 Hz too loud (my home Hifi is flat from 16 Hz to at least 24 KHz). Most probably mastering engineer used nice stock Yamaha monitors or something similar so could not hear that drum properly...
Damn! Them some ugly speakers! But I hear (see?) where you are coming from. And that is a fantastic idea. Ever since I read about Bob Ludwig's monitors (EgglestownWorks Ivy) make from black Italian granite, I have wanted to build something along those lines, but getting and working granite, Italian or otherwise, is beyond my resources. Now concrete...and maybe even some granite just to make them pretty! (I use to do decorative stone work decades ago.)
Old 24th January 2008
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY View Post

Madisound has good kits. You can buy them with or without cabinets.

They design the cross-overs and do a good job.


DIY Speaker Kits from Madisound Speaker Components, Inc.



-tINY
Tiny. You live in here don't you?heh

I am glad you posted that. Some of the Zaph stuff uses their components and I didn't even think to check them out.

In fact, they even sell a complete it kit for the Zaph ZA-SR71
Old 24th January 2008
  #11
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Wavebourn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Good idea;
but if it is not for production so no need for shipment you may afford concrete boxes; they would sound much better than wood: no problems with surface resonances (stiffness) and reactive oscillations (mass).

Here you may see the secret how I make woofers:

http://wavebourn.com/images/domeg/woofers.gif

http://wavebourn.com/images/audio/woofer-12inch-1.gif

http://wavebourn.com/images/audio/woofer-12inch-3.gif

Monitors with good bass is the mast: recently I've bought a CD of Josh Groban, but can't listen it without EQ: some kick drum sounds on frequencies below 40 Hz too loud (my home Hifi is flat from 16 Hz to at least 24 KHz). Most probably mastering engineer used nice stock Yamaha monitors or something similar so could not hear that drum properly...
That ugly bricks with uneven surfaces of cones sound fantastishe!

The rest is, line arrays for from 200 to 3000 Hz in walls made of 8 4" drivers each and 16 1/2" tweeters each.

http://wavebourn.com/images/domeg/left_array.gif

Drivers are mounted on baffles from MDF covered by several levels of linoleum; walls stiffened by linoleum and concrete as well, and contain memory foam.

A sub woofer (below 40 Hz) made as a horn of concrete under the floor (such huge flat grammaphone), you may see it's mouth:

http://wavebourn.com/images/domeg/sub_mouth.gif

Been there, done that, so don't believe such things may be made cheap.
Old 24th January 2008
  #12
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what you're looking for, is, without doubt, tony gee's andromeda.
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Speakers-image002.jpg  
Old 24th January 2008
  #13
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Marik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith View Post
Thanks, that looks very promising, the one that really caught my eye was this:

Zaph|Audio - ZDT3

Well, for monitors I always prefer a two driver solution with 5"-7" mid-bass and a tweeter and then use a sub, but it might be my personal preference.

I actually aquired drivers for this one:

Zaph|Audio - ZD5 - Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and Vifa XT25

Just need to find time to complete the thing.

Another option might be a Proac 2.5 clone, which became almost a standard for many DIYers:

DIY ProAc Response 2.5

Concrete for a sub is a good idea. As an alternative you could check your local craisgslist for granite liquidation. Here in SLC I found a place where slabs of any size can be had for $5 (that's right, five bucks). They charge additional $5 per cut. It might look pretty . As a side note, so far I put complete Ubatuba countertops in the kitchen for about $45.

Or you could make a double box out of highQ plywood and then fill it in with a sand.

The hardest part is just to make up your mind...

Best, M
Old 24th January 2008
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiothings View Post
what you're looking for, is, without doubt, tony gee's andromeda.
I think you may be right. The way the faces are made and how the driver a lined up for the proper phase relationship speaks volumes for the design.
Old 9th March 2009
  #15
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Does anyone have a link for a diy Proac Studio 100 clone? I found a few but the forum was in polish and google translate didn't make it any clearer.
Old 10th March 2009
  #16
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Check this out (DIY speakers)

Tony Gee (Netherlands) builds some very fine speakers. Mine are built upon his crossover networks..

Humble Homemade Hifi

You can be as expensive or cheap as you wish.. Especially the crossover components (caps, inductors) have a great influence on sound.

Cheers,
Masterenzo
Old 10th March 2009
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsmith View Post
I think you may be right. The way the faces are made and how the driver a lined up for the proper phase relationship speaks volumes for the design.
Nope. Doesn't matter at the wavelength where the bass is x-ed to mid. Also the 45 degree (aprox.) speaks loads about not understanding physics. ;-) but sure, I'll give Tony credit for the contouring of the top which decreases edge diffraction.

You don't want an angle that reflects the HF content towards the listening position as it cuases combfiltering and a doubling of impulses/transients.


/Peter
Old 10th March 2009
  #18
nice site Masterenenzo73

I'm going for an active network, and multiple amps of this type:
Hypex Electronics B.V.
Old 10th March 2009
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterenzo73 View Post
Especially the crossover components (caps, inductors) have a great influence on sound.

Cheers,
Masterenzo
Yes of course. Those components shape the response of the design so it can mean +/- "many dB" in the FR of the speaker.


/Peter
Old 10th March 2009
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterenzo73 View Post
Tony Gee (Netherlands) builds some very fine speakers. Mine are built upon his crossover networks..

Humble Homemade Hifi

You can be as expensive or cheap as you wish.. Especially the crossover components (caps, inductors) have a great influence on sound.

Cheers,
Masterenzo
thx for that link Masterenzo. Looks to be a great source of information. Which one is the closest to the Proac Studio 100?
Old 10th March 2009
  #21
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And here's all the info I've found on the diy Proac Studio 100 if anyone else is interested.

diyAudio Forums - diy proac studio 100s - Page 1

Tuning ProAc Studio 100 by McGyver - Do It Yourself - Forum Audio - Audiostereo.pl

ProAc Studio100 - klon?? - Do It Yourself - Forum Audio - Audiostereo.pl

The bottom two are in polish and google transalte doesn't help too much.
Old 2nd February 2017
  #22
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jororaitchev's Avatar
Few DIY projects

Hello,
the first project of my DIY loudspeakers i have served Ti6k- JBL. My first contact with
them, was in distant 2005.
I started working with them in 2009 and finished in 2012.
The loudspeakers are "SEAS"- Excel / Tw-1”, Mw-5”for center 2х 5.5”,Bass-8,5”/ and cross-over parts- "Intertechnik".
Nominal impedance- 8 Ohm
Freguency Range 30Hz-20kHz
Characterstic Sensitivity(2,83V/1m)- 87db
Long Term-110W
Have are some pictures, if there is interest, i will continue.
Regards!
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Speakers-1-1-1.jpg   DIY Speakers-3-.jpg   DIY Speakers-3-3-3.jpg   DIY Speakers-6-.jpg   DIY Speakers-6-6-6.jpg  

DIY Speakers-07.jpg   DIY Speakers-20160311_145456.jpg  
Old 2nd February 2017
  #23
Making a box is the easy part.

Picking the drivers and tuning the box is a little more tricky.

Designing the crossover is magicians work. It takes years to hear the subtle differences. Changing the "right" component value can have huge effect on the sound. all the speaker builders I know are always changing components. This is the black hole of speaker building. If you love the tech you will love the endless possibilites. If you want to do music making this will destroy you.

Peace
Old 2nd February 2017
  #24
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jororaitchev's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by philsaudio View Post
Making a box is the easy part.

Picking the drivers and tuning the box is a little more tricky.

Designing the crossover is magicians work. It takes years to hear the subtle differences. Changing the "right" component value can have huge effect on the sound. all the speaker builders I know are always changing components. This is the black hole of speaker building. If you love the tech you will love the endless possibilites. If you want to do music making this will destroy you.

Peace
The easiest part of the project is the crossover,but to do something similar, is required many opportunities and effort.
regards!
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Speakers-_f.jpg   DIY Speakers-001.jpg   DIY Speakers-4-4-k.jpg   DIY Speakers-5-5.jpg  
Old 3rd February 2017
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jororaitchev View Post
The easiest part of the project is the crossover,but to do something similar, is required many opportunities and effort.
regards!
Perhaps at first, if you are just copying a design from Parts Express, a magazine article or something someone else put together as some sort of "kit", but the real work by audiophile speaker builders of multi way speakers is in modifying that crossover, like a producer arranges songs. I do not want to put you down, but every self respecting speaker builder I know has the crossover outside of the boxes so they can be easily modified. Only when you sell them do real speaker builders install the crossovers in the speaker box. Real speaker builders have boxes and boxes of caps and chokes to select from. Next to the soldering iron you will find inductance meters because we are always unwinding chokes to get that sound dialed in. And capacitance meters so we can match caps on either side and also check caps value when we test different types of caps so each type cap we are auditioning is the same value and not changing the crossover inadvertantly.

You gotta find each drivers sweet spot, carve out any blemishes, get them all to sing the parts they do best, measure to guide you to where more work may be needed and then do it again off axis, and maybe more off axis, listen to more/different music etc. Rinse and repeat until everything else you try sounds worse......then abandon the design and move on.

It is pretty easy to fool yourself when speaker building. I think one of your best tools would be a speaker known to sound right. Then you have something to compare too.

And your choice of reference tracks and your familiarity with these tracks in many environments will be your next best tool after training yourself to critically listen.

And it is all wasted if you are doing your work in an untreated room.

Speaker building is like any other art form. It looks easy when professionals are doing it, but it is a whole new game when you are doing it. The last thing you need when you are mixing for translation is a speaker/room that is lying to you.

Doing it right takes a lot of practice......so what do you want to do? Mix music or become an apprentice speaker-builder?
Old 3rd February 2017
  #26
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[QUOTE=philsaudio;....... I do not want to put you down, but every self respecting speaker builder I know has the crossover outside of the boxes so they can be easily modified. Only when you sell them do real speaker builders....[/QUOTE]

When one is on my age / 57 years /, are supposed to be aware of the details.
By profession I am electrical engineer. Filters outside the hull are so new to me as the discovery of black and white TV. Оf course i do, when making tests of the crossover, he is out construction of the cabinet and when everything is clear, his place can be anywhere and so.
You have a strange attitude towards construction of the audio speakers.
Show me yours the finished project - I will publish my new project.
Old 4th February 2017
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jororaitchev View Post
Have are some pictures, if there is interest, i will continue.
Regards!
Amazing cabinet work. Hats off!

Good driver choice as well.
Old 4th February 2017
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jororaitchev View Post
When one is on my age / 57 years /, are supposed to be aware of the details.
By profession I am electrical engineer. Filters outside the hull are so new to me as the discovery of black and white TV. Оf course i do, when making tests of the crossover, he is out construction of the cabinet and when everything is clear, his place can be anywhere and so.
You have a strange attitude towards construction of the audio speakers.
Show me yours the finished project - I will publish my new project.
What I am trying to say is any DIY speaker that is tuned to measure and sound good has many more hours of expert-non novice work in the crossover beyond what it takes to put one together in a kit where hopefully someone else did the work properly for you.

Even if someone did a bang up design, part of DIY is tuning the C/O to your system which includes your room.

What speakers I have now are here.
Old 14th February 2017
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philsaudio View Post
What I am trying to say is any DIY speaker that is tuned to measure and sound good has many more hours of expert-non novice work in the crossover beyond what it takes to put one together in a kit where hopefully someone else did the work properly for you.

Even if someone did a bang up design, part of DIY is tuning the C/O to your system which includes your room.

What speakers I have now are here.
I do myself every thing - the project from the begenning, to the end!
https://jororaitchev.blogspot.bg/201...project-j.html
Old 14th February 2017
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jororaitchev View Post
I do myself every thing - the project from the begenning, to the end!
https://jororaitchev.blogspot.bg/201...project-j.html
Joro:

Hats off to you bro.

I had imagined building boxes like that, but imagining is how far it got.

I have designed crossovers for Hi-Vi - SWANS brand production speakers and they are somewhat as cool as yours but probably more optimized, industrial-engineering wise for a price point than optimized for audiophila-nervosa.

keep on keeping on and
Listen to more music.

Phil
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