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Which Solders Sound the best
Old 16th June 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
What IS far more common to affect the sound are bad connections; switches, pots, loose connectors ect...Bad solder joints too...
I'd say there's probably a whole lot more of that sorta thing going on than any other single non-diagnosed (analog) problem in most studios:

I once did a 2-week "semi-lockout" of an old-school analog studio (The agreement was that the owner could come in and do stuff in the daytime.)

There was a full patchbay mounted in the frame of an old Amek Angela, and on the first night, I noticed a couple of noisy patches. (I had to jiggle a few to quiet things down).

...So at the end of the night, I stayed up late and cleaned the patch (and all the connectors on the cables).

When I came in the next night, he looked up and screamed "What the hell did you do?!" (It kinda scared me, 'cause I thought I might have accidentally screwed something up. )

I said "Nothing; I just cleaned the patchbay."

He said "Well, whatever you did, everything sounds a whole lot better!" (and offered me a job!).

...But it does actually make sense that it would make that much difference, when you consider how many times any given signal had been subjected to so many sequential "questionable" connections along the way!
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Old 16th June 2019
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
I'd say there's probably a whole lot more of that sorta thing going on than any other single non-diagnosed (analog) problem in most studios:

I once did a 2-week "semi-lockout" of an old-school analog studio (The agreement was that the owner could come in and do stuff in the daytime.)

There was a full patchbay mounted in the frame of an old Amek Angela, and on the first night, I noticed a couple of noisy patches. (I had to jiggle a few to quiet things down).

...So at the end of the night, I stayed up late and cleaned the patch (and all the connectors on the cables).

When I came in the next night, he looked up and screamed "What the hell did you do?!" (It kinda scared me, 'cause I thought I might have accidentally screwed something up. )

I said "Nothing; I just cleaned the patchbay."

He said "Well, whatever you did, everything sounds a whole lot better!" (and offered me a job!).

...But it does actually make sense that it would make that much difference, when you consider how many times any given signal had been subjected to so many sequential "questionable" connections along the way!
.
I recommend to my clients to clean the bay at least once a year, and all XLR's..Most never would have thought to clean the bay.
And I NEVER use a burnishing tool..
Old 16th June 2019
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Yep.
...And the corollary to this is: When your ear tells you "it's wrong" and the test gear tells you "its right", you have probably just measured the wrong thing!
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Yes back in the 70s I modified some test equipment to make it more sensitive. For example the SMPTE IMD HF tone at 7kHz was already too easy for 70's era op amps (19kHz/20kHz IMD gave circuitry a better workout). Modern test equipment has gotten better too...

If you can hear an insert jack, a switch, a solder connection, etc... you have found a bad/dirty jack, switch, connection. Solder connections don't get dirty, but they can degrade over time especially if marginal to begin with.

JR
Old 16th June 2019
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy2667 View Post
Thanks Chris for advising.

I think it is not difficult to do a simple comparison tests to verify if solders impact sound. My ears tell me it does.

Of course different people may have different opinions and not all people would be able to hear the difference.

Thanks
I doubt, seriously “bet on it” doubt, that you could identify the “better” solder in a blind AB listening test where the tested joints are correctly done and only the solder is different.

Expectation bias was mentioned above. Most audio people don’t understand how heavy a thumb that puts on one side in any comparison.
I’m not arguing that there is no possibility of an actual difference in very detailed scientific parameters, but I would poo-poo the possibility that you can hear the difference in a truly blind test.

“Trust your ears” is an OK thought IF you remove pre-knowledge from the issue you trust your ears to judge.
“...not all people would be able to hear the difference” is an unconscious admission that you really want to hear a difference... so you do.
Old 16th June 2019
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
[...] not all people would be able to hear the difference” is an unconscious admission that you really want to hear a difference... so you do.
...On the other hand, if WE ("the gatekeepers of audio") only consider what "most people" can hear, then we are not really doing our jobs, are we?

Our mission should be: "Do what it takes to make it sound as good as possible".

...But these days (with the "loudness wars", data-compression schemes, and so forth), the mission has changed to "Fock it up as much as you can (before "most people" notice it)."

...And so it DOES concern me that by "enforcing" the "lowest common denominator" upon us all, what we have effectively done is to teach people NOT TO LISTEN!
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Old 16th June 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
...On the other hand, if we "the gatekeepers of audio" only consider what "most people" can hear, then we're not really doing our jobs, are we?

Our mission should be: "Do what it takes to make it sound as good as possible".

...But these days (with the "loudness wars", data-compression schemes, and so forth), the mission has changed to "Fock it up as much as you can before "most people" notice it."

...And so it DOES concern me that by "enforcing" the "lowest common denominator" upon us all, what we have effectively done is to teach people NOT TO LISTEN!
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I don’t disagree with your assessment of the current state of consumer audio.
But I hope you are not linking that subject to anything in my post.
I’m not saying “if the average human can’t hear it, it isn’t important”. I’m reacting to those in our community who claim that they hear wondrous differences between two audio conditions without blind testing to eliminate the possibility of bias.
Old 16th June 2019
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
I don’t disagree with your assessment of the current state of consumer audio.
But I hope you are not linking that subject to anything in my post.
I’m not saying “if the average human can’t hear it, it isn’t important”. I’m reacting to those in our community who claim that they hear wondrous differences between two audio conditions without blind testing to eliminate the possibility of bias.
I'm with you there, my friend:

Although I was responding to your post, I was really speaking more to others who might be reading this thread (and who might've gotten the wrong idea).

...Its kinda like being on the witness stand: The lawyer might be the person asking you the questions, but you are ultimately giving the answers to the jury!
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Old 16th June 2019
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRoberts View Post
That is why we use test equipment...

I can measure things that I can't hear, but I can't hear things that I can't measure.

JR
Test gear, at least the AP stuff I have will not show any solder differences. It does measure switch issues easily. The average DPDT push switch when slightly worn will show .001~.005% THD. Hard solder it and it drops to the residuals, .0005%. Patch bays can measure all over the place. Mostly this is contamination or contact issues. Even a relay can measure differently in one position from the other.

Build a complex analog audio piece with tin/lead solder and another with a high silver content and most with decent hearing will detect the differences with complex acoustic music.

It takes about 1/4 to 1/2" of solder (.20") to fill an average plated-through hole on a double sided pcb. 20+ feet can be used easily on one rack piece. A large console will use many feet or pounds of solder.

Interested folks can wire up a 20 foot "cable" of your fav solder to listen to it's effects.
Old 16th June 2019
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
.....
It takes about 1/4 to 1/2" of solder (.20") to fill an average plated-through hole on a double sided pcb. .....
But the tin doesn't "eat" the copper which has been applied ("plated") to the hole before, does it ?
Old 16th June 2019
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
[...]It takes about 1/4 to 1/2" of solder (.20") to fill an average plated-through hole on a double sided pcb. 20+ feet can be used easily on one rack piece. A large console will use many feet or pounds of solder.

Interested folks can wire up a 20 foot "cable" of your fav solder to listen to it's effects.
Are you talking about how many feet of solder comes off the roll?

...Or are you talking about how much alloy actually ends up in the path of the electrons?

I'd probably believe your "20 foot rule" if you're talking about how many feet of solder (at whatever diameter) comes off the roll!

...But surely you're not suggesting that the average electron has actually passed through 20 feet's worth of "solder alloy molecules" as it wends its way to its given destination, are you?
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Old 16th June 2019
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Test gear, at least the AP stuff I have will not show any solder differences. It does measure switch issues easily. The average DPDT push switch when slightly worn will show .001~.005% THD. Hard solder it and it drops to the residuals, .0005%.
bad switches can be audible.
Quote:
Patch bays can measure all over the place. Mostly this is contamination or contact issues. Even a relay can measure differently in one position from the other.
I don't doubt that...
Quote:
Build a complex analog audio piece with tin/lead solder and another with a high silver content and most with decent hearing will detect the differences with complex acoustic music.
Again do you have any objective proof of this..? Are you suggesting that people with "decent" hearing can hear nonlinearities or artifacts below your test bench residual?
Quote:
It takes about 1/4 to 1/2" of solder (.20") to fill an average plated-through hole on a double sided pcb. 20+ feet can be used easily on one rack piece. A large console will use many feet or pounds of solder.

Interested folks can wire up a 20 foot "cable" of your fav solder to listen to it's effects.
Or you could perform a null test between two otherwise identical cables that only differ in the solder composition.

Sorry I am not trying to be argumentative and I have a personal rule to not argue with people about what they hear.

JR
Old 16th June 2019
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analogguru View Post
[...] But the tin doesn't "eat" the copper which has been applied ("plated") to the hole before, does it ?
Well, I'm not sure how much that has to do with what Jim said there, but...

...Since you have brought this question to the fore, it might be interesting to consider that while the tin does not "eat the copper", it should be noted that there ARE some other very interesting things going on in a solder joint!:

The act of soldering creates what are known as "Intermetallic Compounds" (formed between the two pieces of metal being joined):

These Intermetallic Compounds are formed from the molecules of the two metal surfaces which have (by the act of soldering) been dissolved into the solder.

In other words, right there at the joint is a bit of a NEW ALLOY that you yourself create whenever you solder a joint! (And of course, this IS material through which the electrons must travel! )

...So there is obviously a whole lot more going on here than simply holding two pieces of metal together.
.
Old 17th June 2019
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Test gear, at least the AP stuff I have will not show any solder differences. It does measure switch issues easily. The average DPDT push switch when slightly worn will show .001~.005% THD. Hard solder it and it drops to the residuals, .0005%. Patch bays can measure all over the place. Mostly this is contamination or contact issues. Even a relay can measure differently in one position from the other.

Build a complex analog audio piece with tin/lead solder and another with a high silver content and most with decent hearing will detect the differences with complex acoustic music.

It takes about 1/4 to 1/2" of solder (.20") to fill an average plated-through hole on a double sided pcb. 20+ feet can be used easily on one rack piece. A large console will use many feet or pounds of solder.

Interested folks can wire up a 20 foot "cable" of your fav solder to listen to it's effects.
Sorry Jim, I dont buy it. But you have the test gear, so build up a couple of kits and show us the MEASURED difference. I am constantly amazed by all those on this site who make changes and can instantly hear the difference with absolutely NO objective testing. Hey, have a cup of coffee and your hearing changes.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
It takes about 1/4 to 1/2" of solder (.20") to fill an average plated-through hole on a double sided pcb. 20+ feet can be used easily on one rack piece. A large console will use many feet or pounds of solder.

Interested folks can wire up a 20 foot "cable" of your fav solder to listen to it's effects.
There are two major logical flaws here . . .

First, you obviously can't correlate the amount of solder coming off the roll to the equivalent cross-sectional area of the solder alloy in the finished connection through which signal current actually flows. This is akin to conceptualizing the length of a concrete highway by imagining the total length of the river of wet concrete that flowed through the troughs off the backs of the all the trucks that delivered it to the jobsite. Maybe it's fun to think about, but completely irrelevant.

Second . . . I think we can all agree that the subjective sound qualities of any cable would be the result of its electrical characteristics . . . even those who are of the opinion that any variations in these characteristics are inconsequential. We can also prove that a given cable's electrical characteristics are directly related to the geometry/arrangement of its conductors and properties of the surrounding dielectrics. So even if you were to decide that raw wire solder was a good material with which to build a cable, you'd have to actually build cables out of it to even have a basis to observe its subjective sound qualities. And then if you wanted to compare various alloys of solder, you'd have to make sure that each sample used for evaluation had the same outer diameter, the same flux material, and the same arrangement of the flux within the solder wire . . . and after all this, your evaluation data would ONLY be valid for cables manufactured from solder wire, NOT for solder wire used to make connections inside equipment.

In short, simply yanking some wire solder off a roll and alligator-clipping it into a circuit simply doesn't pass muster for any kind of valid test, subjective or objective.

If you actually want to do some valid tests on the subject . . . perhaps one approach would be to make a run of PC boards with (at least) hundreds of jumpers all in series, and a connector where they could be easily swapped in and out of a test fixture with dedicated I/O and buffer electronics to drive it. Various iterations of the jumper boards could be assembled, each with a different solder composition, and then the whole shebang could be subjectively evaluated by a pool of testers. None of the testers could of course know which jumper board was assembled with which solder (perhaps a potting compound or conformal coating would be necessary to avoid visual differentiation), and the identification nomenclature for the boards would have to be randomized for each tester (to eliminate any bias for i.e. "board A" or whatnot). After a sufficiently large number of evaluations, the results could be tabulated to see if there's any consistent statistical preference for a given board . . . and then measurements could be performed to see if any technical correlations could be made to any subjective preferences, if indeed any are found to exist. Supposing that at this point some subjective and objective variation is found to exist . . . the required final step would be to go back and re-evaluate the test fixture and procedure, and verify that no other parameters could be found to influence the test, other than that of the solder composition.

I'll admit that I'm probably interested enough to think about it for a little bit, or spend an hour perusing an AES paper on the subject. But to go through the effort of actually doing the experiment . . . completely out of the question. There are so many more important things to worry about . . .
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
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I propose a scientifically-conducted double-blind study comparing the following 3 items (for use as speaker cable):
1) 20 feet of "Monster Cable"

2) 20 feet of solder

3) 20 feet of coat-hanger wire
...Any predictions as to the outcome?
.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
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I had really hoped this was satire, but it wasn't.

Maybe its something to do with modern practice? Back in the 70's millspec and phone company soldering both required a tight physical joint sufficient to conduct the signal be made before any solder was applied.

The purpose of the solder was primarily to hold the joint in position and prevent oxidation. The involvement of the solder in signal conduction was minimal.

Even on plated through board the gap between the wire and the the plating is a few thou.

I guess one could use pin connectors and a wire wrapping tool and avoid the problem at all.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
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Do non-conductive "solders" exist? Serious question.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
I propose a scientifically-conducted double-blind study comparing the following 3 items (for use as speaker cable):
1) 20 feet of "Monster Cable"

2) 20 feet of solder

3) 20 feet of coat-hanger wire
...Any predictions as to the outcome?
.
Your ears will not be golden enough to hear the day and night difference.......
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Do non-conductive "solders" exist? Serious question.
I did a mid-gig Hail Mary XLR fix with super glue. That was a couple years ago and it's still intact. So I'd say yes.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Do non-conductive "solders" exist? Serious question.
Yes:

They call it "hot glue"!
.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
Your ears will not be golden enough to hear the day and night difference.......
...Well I would have assumed that if the study was indeed scientifically-conducted, the nighttime results would necessarily be averaged in with the daytime results.
.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Yes:

They call it "hot glue"!
.
Isn’t that a James Brown song?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
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I never hear anyone speak of the “accumulative” effects of doing many small “unmeasurable” things to achieve something measurable. This was made very apparent to me at the age of 17 y/o with a 1988 Mustang. I did all those little things that people said “didn’t matter” because the dyno showed no increase in horsepower, yet my car ended up 1 second faster in the quarter mile (1 second is 10 car lengths and a wave goodbye out the window) next to those who took the alternate route of “It wasn’t measurable” so why do it. For those of you who have built products for sale I can only imagine the number of prototypes that are built before a final design is settled on. How many compromises are made because “accountants” have a price point you must meet? I’m sure there are budgets for R&D that limit testing. Solder is not something I’ve ever really thought about until recently and not for its sound, but someone who is, or has, thought about solder for this reason is someone’s head I want to get into to see what other minute things they’re thinking of that might make a difference.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
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Thanks everyone! I’ll definitely give very serious thought to the sound of solder when buying or repairing audio devices. Considering the sudden importance of this issue, I’m sure manufacturers must highlight which solders are used in their devices. Does anyone have a link to that table?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M. Boykin View Post
This was made very apparent to me at the age of 17 y/o with a 1988 Mustang. I did all those little things that people said “didn’t matter” because the dyno showed no increase in horsepower, yet my car ended up 1 second faster in the quarter mile (1 second is 10 car lengths and a wave goodbye out the window) next to those who took the alternate route of “It wasn’t measurable” so why do it.
So . . . if somebody on an internet forum posed the question of "which diameter of Carter AFB metering rods will give me the fastest quarter-mile time?" . . . what would you say?

Carburetor tuning is of course not simply a matter of sticking the "fastest" parts inside, rather it's a process, or perhaps a craft, in and of itself. The myriad parts available are merely raw materials available to the person setting up the carburetor . . . and success or failure comes down to how these parts are utilized in the application. But there are tons of calibration parameters that one could play around with (i.e. air-bleed orifices, power-valve channel restrictions, booster-venturi geometry, etc. etc.) but they can open up a real can of worms . . . and those experienced in the craft of carburetor tuning understand the value of knowing when to stay with the manufacturer's normative values, and look elsewhere for performance gains.

There are few people here that would argue against the need for consistent, stable, long-lasting solder joints to maximize the performance of a piece of audio gear. And if you read through manufacturer's datasheets on wire solder, you'll see that they invest a considerable amount of effort into the science and metallurgy of soldering, and make a wide variety of products . . . but they're all differentiated from each other by way they perform within the process of soldering. Ignoring the process will leave you with little insight into the quality or suitability of the material.

So in the context of hand assembly or rework with wire solder, I think it's excellent advice to simply pick a high-quality product that the manufacturer has formulated to the normative specifications for this type of work . . . and focus one's effort on the process, not the material.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M. Boykin View Post
I never hear anyone speak of the “accumulative” effects of doing many small “unmeasurable” things to achieve something measurable. This was made very apparent to me at the age of 17 y/o with a 1988 Mustang. I did all those little things that people said “didn’t matter” because the dyno showed no increase in horsepower, yet my car ended up 1 second faster in the quarter mile (1 second is 10 car lengths and a wave goodbye out the window) next to those who took the alternate route of “It wasn’t measurable” so why do it. For those of you who have built products for sale I can only imagine the number of prototypes that are built before a final design is settled on. How many compromises are made because “accountants” have a price point you must meet? I’m sure there are budgets for R&D that limit testing. Solder is not something I’ve ever really thought about until recently and not for its sound, but someone who is, or has, thought about solder for this reason is someone’s head I want to get into to see what other minute things they’re thinking of that might make a difference.
1/4 mile elapsed time is an objective empirical measurement.

I see your 1988 and raise you my 1954.....

JR
Old 4 weeks ago
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkus View Post
[...] Ignoring the process will leave you with little insight into the quality or suitability of the material. [...]
This is true of so many areas of endeavor as to be nearly UNIVERSAL!
.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkus View Post
So . . . if somebody on an internet forum posed the question of "which diameter of Carter AFB metering rods will give me the fastest quarter-mile time?" . . . what would you say?

Carburetor tuning is of course not simply a matter of sticking the "fastest" parts inside, rather it's a process, or perhaps a craft, in and of itself. The myriad parts available are merely raw materials available to the person setting up the carburetor . . . and success or failure comes down to how these parts are utilized in the application. But there are tons of calibration parameters that one could play around with (i.e. air-bleed orifices, power-valve channel restrictions, booster-venturi geometry, etc. etc.) but they can open up a real can of worms . . . and those experienced in the craft of carburetor tuning understand the value of knowing when to stay with the manufacturer's normative values, and look elsewhere for performance gains.

There are few people here that would argue against the need for consistent, stable, long-lasting solder joints to maximize the performance of a piece of audio gear. And if you read through manufacturer's datasheets on wire solder, you'll see that they invest a considerable amount of effort into the science and metallurgy of soldering, and make a wide variety of products . . . but they're all differentiated from each other by way they perform within the process of soldering. Ignoring the process will leave you with little insight into the quality or suitability of the material.

So in the context of hand assembly or rework with wire solder, I think it's excellent advice to simply pick a high-quality product that the manufacturer has formulated to the normative specifications for this type of work . . . and focus one's effort on the process, not the material.
I can’t argue with this. There needs to be a systematic, consistent way of doing things. The middle of thread got into listening bias and golden ears. Does anyone want to argue wether an Alesis 3630 sounds different than an SSL Buss compressors? Does anyone want to argue wether Al Schmidt could mix a better song on consumer gear than probably me on professional gear? Point is, gear and expertise in using it matters and there are sonic differences in op amps, capacitors, resistors, transistors, and maybe even solder. Personally, I think one should buy solder based on longevity and not Sonics. But, an argument can be made. If I filled my house full of solder and attached an audio signal to the front and back door there’s no guarantee the path of least resistance is a straight line. It could go up the stairs through some bedrooms over the balcony and then out the door.

So if the OP is say, about to completely rework a console like I just did and replace every op amp, every cap, and every resistor, then the question may be valid. And just because it can’t be measured across one module, or two modules, maybe across 40 it can. Has anyone here measured a console before and after an entire rebuild but not actually replaced any of the stock parts? Why would someone do this? Now throw in compressors, EQ’s, effects processors. That solder is adding up now is it not?

To the OP, I do as suggested early on in this thread. I make sure the components are touching and the solder is the glue that holds the joint together. It’s systematic and consistent and you can sleep at night. Go with Jim’s suggestion on solder since he’s the only one that made a suggestion. He’s at least got an audio precision and actually tried to measure solder. If the audio precision can’t measure it then you know it’s not adding distortion, but I recently changed carbon resistors to metal film and he said the audio precision didn’t measure a change with that either, but it did make a sonic difference. Good or bad is subjective.

Last edited by Brian M. Boykin; 4 weeks ago at 08:35 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRoberts View Post
1/4 mile elapsed time is an objective empirical measurement.

I see your 1988 and raise you my 1954.....

JR
Don’t have the car anymore. It was stolen from the parking lot of my apartment in Houston and fenced. It had the stock 2 bolt main .30 over with aluminum heads, can, intake, full drag suspension, 125 shot of NO2, and weighed 2850 lbs with me in it. It yanked both front tires and carried them about 1 foot dropping it from 6000 on 10” slicks. It had a Doug Nash 4 + 1 and 3.73 gears with Mosure 31 spline axles and an Auburn limited slip. Skinny tires up front and I drove it daily. At 18 y/o I could do that. No way I’d do it now. Best time was 11.22 at 122 mph. They made me leave because it didn’t have a roll bar. It had it in her to do a 10.99 but she was stolen before I got her back out. I now have a 79 Corvette that I’ve been going through. I’ve taken a different route with her. I replaced every bushing in the steering, suspension, and even the body mounts. She got coil overs up from, dragvette 4 link in the rear, and turns on a dime now. She’s about to get a Richmond 6 speed so me and the wifey can take her on road trips. I’m 45 now, a nice mid 11 sec car with cold blowing AC and great road manners is the goal.

Good to know your a gear head also.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M. Boykin View Post
Don’t have the car anymore. It was stolen from the parking lot of my apartment in Houston and fenced. It had the stock 2 bolt main .30 over with aluminum heads, can, intake, full drag suspension, 125 shot of NO2, and weighed 2850 lbs with me in it. It yanked both front tires and carried them about 1 foot dropping it from 6000 on 10” slicks. It had a Doug Nash 4 + 1 and 3.73 gears with Mosure 31 spline axles and an Auburn limited slip. Skinny tires up front and I drove it daily. At 18 y/o I could do that. No way I’d do it now. Best time was 11.22 at 122 mph. They made me leave because it didn’t have a roll bar. It had it in her to do a 10.99 but she was stolen before I got her back out. I now have a 79 Corvette that I’ve been going through. I’ve taken a different route with her. I replaced every bushing in the steering, suspension, and even the body mounts. She got coil overs up from, dragvette 4 link in the rear, and turns on a dime now. She’s about to get a Richmond 6 speed so me and the wifey can take her on road trips. I’m 45 now, a nice mid 11 sec car with cold blowing AC and great road manners is the goal.

Good to know your a gear head also.
My photo is older than you... My car was also an overachiever... I tried to race it at island dragway and they wouldn't let me run without a scatter-shield.. I suspect the loping idle caused by my full race Isky cam gave away that it wasn't stock.

JR

PS: Be careful about calling cars a "she"... could make them unpredictable.
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