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LA2A and Lead poisoning, I’d like to know more.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #61
Gear Addict
 

When RoHS first became an issue, I worked in an industry whose products were categorically exempt from RoHS compliance -- but because our finished devices were based on off-the-shelf components, where non-RoHS versions were being inexorably phased out as time passed, we decided fairly early on to go lead-free so as to avoid interactions between leaded and no-lead metallurgy and resulting reliability issues. Most of that stuff has been pretty well worked out by now (e.g., component pins are often now plated with RoHS-compliant alloys that are still compatible with leaded soldering processes and don't form brittle intermetallics, and the later RoHS solders are improved over the original alloys) but in the early days it was not nearly as clear. I think most of the concern about tin whiskers, brittle solder, etc., is no longer relevant -- though those were legitimate worries in the beginning. Ultimately, it makes sense to make RoHS-compliant devices for anything that will be mass-produced and sold -- I agree with you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick View Post
RoHS regulations on lead and other hazardous materials contain exemptions for some particular types of products, for example industrial control equipment. The rationale is usually based on one or more of the following considerations:
  • Industrial products are built in much smaller quantities than consumer products and also tend to have much longer operating lives. Therefore the total quantity of hazardous materials likely to enter landfills from such products is low.
  • The equipment in question is destined for aerospace or military use, and requires reliability levels which cannot be acheived with typical lead-free solder formulations.
  • There is no current substitute for the material or technology, and the affected industries need time to develop alternatives.

Most such exemptions are only temporary, and have expiration deadlines. My employer has an entire sustaining engineering group dedicated to redesigning legacy products before the applicable deadlines. Most of what they do is sourcing equivalent lead-free components, updating product BOM's to use them, and producing reams of documentation to prove that they're now in compliance.

Here's a link to some upcoming expiry dates.

There was a time when small audio equipment firms could be excused for not having a good understanding of RoHS regulations, but that time is long past. I've been designing RoHS-compliant electronics for more than a decade now.

As is true in many types of health and safety regulations, California is an early adopter within the US. Complaining about how silly some of this labeling is in particular instances won't make the requirements go away. Manufacturers must either "get 'er done", or give up sales to an important market. When you consider the possibility of having to navigate distinct product safety regulations in each the fifty states, the European approach of "harmonized" regulations starts to look like a pretty good idea.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #62
Lives for gear
 
Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Many of my sources of electronic components (like All Electronics and MPJA) now just put warnings on EVERYTHING.
Apparently everything is known to cause cancer in California, so you must be warned about everything.

The notice at MPJA says:

Quote:
As of August 2018 the State of California has changed the requirements of the "Prop 65" law. We now must list on our website any possible chemicals that can cause cancer, birth defects or reproductive problem.

As an example:
ABS plastic contains styrene
PVC wire insulation can contain Di(2-ethylhexl)pthalate (DEHP)
electrolytic capacitors can contain Ethylene glycol
Brass can contain lead
flame ******ant pc boards can contain TetrabrmobisphenolA (TBBPA)

To put it simply we are a small company and do not have the resources to test every single part, so we list everything as hazardous. Please recycle al electronic parts responsibly and under no circumstances eat, drink or smoke these parts and wash your hands after touching!
By that method, practically everything you touch, microphones, cables, connectors, knobs, instrument strings, keyboard keys is probably known by the State of California to "cause cancer, birth defects or reproductive problem".
Old 3 weeks ago
  #63
My shipments of electronic parts now all come with a Prop 65 warning card. Those in the other 49 states are now required to ship one if it arrives here. Much of the stuff at Guitar Center is also now tagged. As to lead, that was dealt with here years ago, long before Prop 65. I have no issue with most of that here. It just changed manufacturing a bit. It was already expensive to produce in California so the extra costs wasn't much to worry about.

Growing up in LA in the 1950's was full of risks. There was a lot of bad stuff used in the aerospace industry. The test nuclear reactor in the Chatsworth Hills above the San Fernando Valley melted down and they didn't tell anyone. That was quite a cleanup. I'm amazed I don't glow in the dark now.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #64
Gear Addict
 

I assume you're talking about the Santa Susana Field Laboratory meltdown? The direct contamination from that incident isn't the only legacy of that site; they used to burn toxic and radioactive waste in open pits (in 1994, two scientists were killed during such activities). Crazy stuff.... Interesting reactor design, though. Liquid sodium as a coolant -- what could possibly go wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
My shipments of electronic parts now all come with a Prop 65 warning card. Those in the other 49 states are now required to ship one if it arrives here. Much of the stuff at Guitar Center is also now tagged. As to lead, that was dealt with here years ago, long before Prop 65. I have no issue with most of that here. It just changed manufacturing a bit. It was already expensive to produce in California so the extra costs wasn't much to worry about.

Growing up in LA in the 1950's was full of risks. There was a lot of bad stuff used in the aerospace industry. The test nuclear reactor in the Chatsworth Hills above the San Fernando Valley melted down and they didn't tell anyone. That was quite a cleanup. I'm amazed I don't glow in the dark now.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
The minds of Excremento have already passed numerous laws to prevent that here in Kalifornia.

Hunters here are required to buy and use expensive pure copper bullets. It's to "save the Condors". I know a couple of the condor researchers and they say lead isn't the problem, there are few animals shot by hunters that are not harvested.

It's the broken glass bottles that kills the condors. They are attracted to shiny objects and eat broken glass pieces ( they aren't the smartest birds).

As to lead contamination, it's already in the ground. That's where we get it from. It's called mining. Maybe the EU can arrange to have it all dug up and sent to the moon?

BTW, Kalifornia is an official RoHS state, just like Europe. I follow the laws here and use RoHS solder for new production.

So far lead fishing weights are exempt in the National Parks, for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Any more political commentary risks the poster being temp banned for a month or so.

It's not allowed here.
Not only did you not get it all -- you had some 'witty' repartee with one of those who frequently posts politically shaded comments, indulging grade school annoyances like dubbing the capital of my state "Excremento" to signal his displeasure with the legislators there -- legislators that in this very thread he incorrectly blamed for the California law sometimes known as Proposition 65, a citizens initiative.

If you're not going to censor both sides, particularly when false assertions are involved, that may cause some to re-evaluate their participation in such a venue.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #66
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, really I am. It can be tough living here. Bags at the grocery store must be paid for, you must request a straw at the local pub and styrofoam is now outlawed. At least we can buy pot to sooth ourselves. Getting a cancer warning card with a new Les Paul can be upsetting.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, really I am. It can be tough living here. Bags at the grocery store must be paid for, you must request a straw at the local pub and styrofoam is now outlawed. At least we can buy pot to sooth ourselves. Getting a cancer warning card with a new Les Paul can be upsetting.
I save my feelings for stuff that counts, but thanks for the thought.

And by 'stuff that counts,' it's my intent to suggest that while environmental toxins are serious business, a discussion like this one, marked as it has been by incorrect information and juvenile rhetoric is not. That said, even here, I think basic rules of fairness should apply when the management exercises their censorial prerogative.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #68

To be fair, the overbearing regulatory apparatus has become a bit of a circus, whomever was responsible for the underlying law.

When a young musician/producer is worried about health risks due to having an opto-comp in the room with him.... When my hose valves have a warning on them not to drink water coming from them because the brass has a small amount of lead in the alloy.... When the music store has to tell you that a guitar can cause reproductive harm.... AND THERE IS NO REAL DANGER. We have a problem.

People are scared, confused, and eventually desensitized to real danger. This is not a political problem so much as a social one.

So, if you want to be as safe as possible, buy new computers and do all your signal processing ITB. If you want to be a little dangerous (because that makes for good art) then consider some equipment that has lead solder... If you want to be extreme - maybe a photocell-based compressor - but it might kill you somehow.





-tINY

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