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SSL plugins shoot out! (UAD / SSL / Waves)
Old 30th July 2013
  #91
Lives for gear
This is interesting. The Glue is the only one of these that i own. In the reverb thead, the one i picked as my favourite was Valhallaroom - also the only one of the reverbs i own.

Can it be that i've learned to like? I haven't used either Glue or Vroom so much that i would have learned them. I don't think so at least. Maybe i just picked the "right" products.
Old 30th July 2013
  #92
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dotl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepydog View Post
This is interesting. The Glue is the only one of these that i own. In the reverb thead, the one i picked as my favourite was Valhallaroom - also the only one of the reverbs i own.

Can it be that i've learned to like? I haven't used either Glue or Vroom so much that i would have learned them. I don't think so at least. Maybe i just picked the "right" products.
Well...you can't go wrong with those two.
Old 30th July 2013
  #93
Gear Nut
 

1 3 2 for me; didn't expect I liked Duende the least, but what you said about the ratio makes sense to my ears: Duende sounded most crushed to my ears.
Old 9th August 2013
  #94
Here for the gear
 

Thank you so much for this effort. I also pick #3. I happen to own the UAD2 SSL , and am VERY interested in the results. Please pm me.

Jerry
Old 9th August 2013
  #95
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROMEWAUK View Post
Thank you so much for this effort. I also pick #3. I happen to own the UAD2 SSL , and am VERY interested in the results. Please pm me.

Jerry
The results are already here:
SSL plugins shoot out! (UAD / SSL / Waves)
Old 3rd October 2013
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl View Post
Results:

1. t glue
2. duende
3. waves


As i said before, the Duende comp doesn't have the 'soft' shaped curve but the other two have, ratio set at 4:1 is actually more like 6-7:1 (so it sounds more lively here) and it has differently shaped attack/release curves. It usually sounds more open than the others but sometimes it can sound like a cardboard.

The Waves comp and the Glue sound very similar but the waves' comp compresses more at hight end (0.9 dB more), narrows the stereo field a bit more and has the biggest 'glue' effect out of the three IMO. I like the weight it adds to the upper-lows but i also like the hi-fi sound of the glue.
duende sound the best here
Old 29th November 2013
  #97
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

in the original post i liked 2, 1, then 3 the best... please PM me the answer
Old 29th November 2013
  #98
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
TEST1
1. SSL Duende Buscompressor Native
2. Waves SSL Buscompressor
3. UAD SSL Buscompressor
4. Slate Digital VBC Grey

TEST2
1. Slate Digital VBC Grey
2. UAD SSL Buscompressor
3. SSL Duende Buscompressor Native
4. Cytomic Glue
5. Waves SSL Buscompressor
Old 29th November 2013
  #99
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JblKid95's Avatar
 

Oh shoot I didn't see test 2!
Old 6th December 2013
  #100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalcide View Post
mp3 "compression" is lossy data compression, not audio compression (that modifies signal gain/volume).

the only thing the two have in common are letters, and the tendency to make a perfectly good mix sound like crap.
Thank you... I saw more than one reference to mp3 compression.

To further the discussion of data compression...

Data compression means that when an audio file is created, it is turned into a bunch of 1s and 0s. WAVs and AIFFs are not compressed at all. Most mp3s are lossy compression. Then there are lossless compression files.

Lossy compression means that the file is scanned, and any repetitive information is deleted. So, lets say for every snare hit (this is oversimplified, but its an example that makes the point), every bit of information that represents every snare hit is scanned, and anytime a series of 1s and 0s is repeated in every single snare hit throughout a song, it is kept for the first instance and for flagged. It is then removed for every other snare hit when the file is compressed (made smaller). When you play it back, the mp3 player then reads the first snare hit and the flag, and then reconstructs the audio file in real time putting that deleted information back as the song is played. So, on one hand, there is no real change because as long as the 1s and 0s are put back like they were, there is literally NO difference in the file before or after.

The problem is... music files are very complicated. It has to read (again just an example) every single little flag for every single sound and put it all back as the song plays for every sound in real time. If you we talking a series of numbers this long... 100110100101001010001000101010 it wouldn't really be a problem. The reality is, its a series of numbers much bigger than that stacked all on top of each other for every single milisecond of delay repeats, reverb wash, every frequency present, every volume change of every frequency present, etc. etc. etc. In reality, an mp3 player just can't do this in real time, can't even really pre unpack the file fast enough in relation to songs being a few minutes long. Errors are made.

As mentioned, this is heard is some pre-transient accuracy loss, and is also heard in the areas where the most amount of file deletion and restoration occur... low frequency and high frequency. The lows seem a little more flabby because they're more often being "put back in" than mid frequencies are. Highs seem less crisp for the same reason. Transients are affected in the way described because they are, by their nature, in the proximity effect low end land, and snappy high end land.

In this thread's context, it would affect the results more to hear an mp3 as the source that is compressed, than it would to hear a compressed WAV converted to mp3.

Most people, and this is why mp3s are not being thrown out the window en-masse, simply do not have the equipment to hear many of these things, nor are they really picky enough to notice them if they did. If something doesn't make an obvious flutter, or click, or pop, most people won't really notice it....especially since there is now nearly a whole generation that has never really even heard a WAV file on a cd to have a frame of reference. Also, with modern mastering methods, its not like you're going to play someone a cd and there be the kind of difference for most people to hear the way there would be if you played them a great Hi Def file or a vinyl of the same song where you can easily point out more exciting and up front drums, silkier highs, and less farty lows.. not to mention the excitement of having a mix grow as the music grows.

Not surprisingly, you'll tend to hate an mp3 of an original master cd of something like say Hysteria's original cd release than you will any of its re releases, or anything modern in the brickwall mastering era. It is both more work to compress that audio file, because it is more dynamic with more changes, and more noticeable because of the lack of transient squashing done in older mastering. If you've ever wondered why artists are now "mastering for Itunes", now you can start to imagine why. You also now can imagine, in a tangible way, why people like us are starting to be rather vocal about for Itunes mastering being better than for CD mastering. They're purposefully mastering a version that will be less affected in those areas where most of the file deletion occurs. Really, its just like mastering used to be... when mastering was done for records, they had to master things. If it was too loud, the grooves would blow out. They had to take out the bass, and the exact bass frequencies that the turntable's filter would put back in, so that the grooves wouldn't blow out. You simply could not send a signal from the 2 bus straight to a lathe. In the CD age.. aside from making things as loud as possible, mastering is virtually unnecessary for some high end mixes. I know I will be slammed for this, but I'd bet money that the unmastered mixes of my bands songs would be indistinguishable to many a super experienced ear from the mastered versions. The only reason is the mix and mastering was done in a prepared manner to get the modern loudness with as much old school dynamics as possible. Compromises made yes, but mastering isn't going to fix a bad and unpunchy mix anymore than mixing will fix a bad and unpunchy recording. When you hear masters that have had to compensate for flat mixes, you can usually tell for this very reason. When you think of that magic commercial frequency curve you see on an analyzer, all the great mixers in the world send the mix to be mastered with that curve 95% or more there. Its just a day where more people are more aware of more information.

Please note that I did say "VIRTUALLY" unnecessary. LOL

I made note of the subsequent tests, and I need to give them a listen because I couldn't even come to a conclusion off of the first test. #2 felt pumpy and squashed, but it seemed snappy too... odd how those things work. It started making sense when I re read that the settings were different. Fabrice's post is also invaluable, even if a whole lot of science to absorb. LOL
Old 6th December 2013
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4damind View Post
Waves SSL seems to be a very good option.. I preferred "5" in the last test.
Unfortunately Waves SSL is not cheap and Afaik the SSL G-Master Buss is not available as a single plug-in? Some re-sellers having Waves SSL 4000 for about $460.
Duende SSL G Bus is available on its own, but it is 399 by itself, and the channel strip/G Bus bundle is 479. Pretty much, might as well buy the bundle.

When the Waves puts the SSL on sale, it is usually in the 450 range, so most of the time the Duende bundle is less expensive.

On a related note, I don't think that the SSL being ported from the CS200 has anything to do with how it compares to a real 4k. The CS200 was, if I recall correctly, modeled off of a J series desk. Now, as I understand it, the real sound difference in the 4k and 9k Superanalogue era is the preamps. The channel strip, and bus compressor have remained relatively unchanged since the E series EQ changes. Correct? I would think that the J series 9k versus a G or an E series 4k differences would be most noticed if someone released a VCC or NLS type plugin based on the 9k instead of the 4k like the current console emulators are.

Hopefully some of the ninjas of the forum will comment on that.... Especially the SSL folk.
Old 6th December 2013
  #102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotl View Post
This tests made me rethinking about ssl bus comp emulations so i did a little test myself.
No Slate's comp cause it's not a 'clear' emulation and I'm not on UAD so only
The Glue, Waves SSL Comp and Duende Bus Comp this time.

Erol's original file, same settings as before.

Ratio 4:1
Attack : 30 ms
Release : 100 ms
GR: about 4 - 5 dB

Thresholds are matched by trying to null the signals.

320 kbps mp3 files

Results in a few days.

Q: Which one do you prefer?
I don't know which I prefer second, but 2 stood out every time I listened to it, and I didn't peek at the results. LOL

How any of this affects what I would choose based on the music I write and deal with more often is beyond me. LOL Although, I think I would probably prefer the Duende in a rock setting too because I do tend to prefer clarity over warmth if I ever have to choose.
Old 13th November 2014
  #103
Here for the gear
 

UAD/SSL/Waves

I know I am a year or so late, but please send me the results. I am about to buy one of the three, but need to know which is which.
Old 13th November 2014
  #104
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanta1999 View Post
I know I am a year or so late, but please send me the results. I am about to buy one of the three, but need to know which is which.
look above
Old 28th November 2014
  #105
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Results?
Old 28th November 2014
  #106
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyPants View Post
Results?
all the results are in this thread.
Old 15th March 2015
  #107
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godface9's Avatar
 

Thanx so much for this, very fun to read and listen along. My thoughts the whole way were "How COME no ONE is SAYing 1!!!!!!!!" Im listening at home studio with Yamaha msp5 , One is so punchy and lively , its top notch sounding to me .The others all! sound smeared and crappy, 1 is crisp ,punchy and dynamic. Ive been thinking of pulling the trigger on the uad line of stuff,Im a little undecided what to do so ive been researching. I love my plugs but if some of that uad stuff is sounding like outboard gear then I want a Fatso and some neve comps and millennia eqs.!!!!!!!! All and All im gonna go look up the duende plugins now. that sounded awesome
Old 16th April 2015
  #108
Gear Head
A bit old but how about the IK Multimedia British Channel with British style buss compressor? Anyone compare these. At 169 Euro not a bad deal

I love their reverb as it is the closest thing I have found to Lexicon. Their LA2A is sweet also.

Demoing the SSL channel and buss compressor now and I must say it is nice, just pricey at around 450 USD
Old 29th May 2015
  #109
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plugger's Avatar
 

please send me resluts. thx
Old 29th May 2015
  #110
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Progmatic-Studios's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by plugger View Post
please send me resluts. thx
Please read the whole thread
Old 16th October 2015
  #111
Here for the gear
results?

can somebody im me the results and is there a link to the glue comparison?
Old 16th October 2015
  #112
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i WOULD LOVE NOW TO HEAR THE RESULTS AGAINST THE SSL HARDWARE UNIT: The XL Logic Series and the the SSL GX384

If anyone takes this game?
thks
Sergio
Old 5th November 2015
  #113
Gear Addict
 
Pyxis360's Avatar
 

Waves SSL killed that first test, way more vibe.
Old 9th November 2015
  #114
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funka's Avatar
 

Quote:
i WOULD LOVE NOW TO HEAR THE RESULTS AGAINST THE SSL HARDWARE UNIT: The XL Logic Series and the the SSL GX384
No GX 384 but...

Here are 3 files:
- Waves SSL plugin
- PA Vertigo VSC-2 plugin(no SC filter), not really SSL clone, but...
- X-Logic SSL rack looped with a Forssell MADA.

Plugin files were done with the analog loop source, thus we are only comparing compressors with the same D/A/D loopback sound.

Pumping at 20db of gain reduction on a small LogicX electro loop:
- attack 10 ms
- release 0.6 s
- threshold -15dB (for XLogic rack & waves plugin, but vertigo was set at -33dB, as 0db is -18dBFS)
- ratio 4:1
- make up 15dB on Waves and XLogic, adjusted on Vertigo to be on par with the others, then volume RMS matched for final 3 files.

Settings may not be perfect for the vertigo plugin, I tried to match them by making some assumptions for level calibration.

Last edited by funka; 9th November 2015 at 10:58 PM.. Reason: attachment failures...
Old 19th April 2018
  #115
TNM
Lives for gear
Total necro, but waves SSL bus on sale for 29 today (all plugs actually, just over 90 in cart for full SSL collection, cheapest ever and individual licenses.. although i don't see point in buying the G EQ as it's just the G channel without dynamics)..

Thought it would interest some of you...

I did my own SSL shootout the other day and the UAD killed everything for me.. glue (good) NI (was my least favourite, just awful), PSP Buss comp (decent), IK(decent), Duende

I don't have the waves and can no longer even demo it unfortunately, waves are so tight with demo time these days.. they are only 7 days, why don't they allow each account to demo once per year is my take..

Anyway, for 29 i am just going to buy it. And since my UAD SSL channel is modelling the E, I will buy the Waves G channel.. why not at those prices.. also don't forget to use code YNY23 at checkout for further discount, works on everything.

Anyway I was just curious about other shootouts so a google led me to this thread...I never used the first rev of the UAD, only the updated one with HP filter and wet/dry.. and it's my favourite bus compressor ever.. I just wish i could compose and mix into it as i go, but way too much latency sadly to play Vi's with live, or monitor..

That said, it CAN be on the master bus and put into live mode, where the latency turns to only 55 samples, almost bearable, BUT, the cpu for me goes from 0 to 20% (my buffer is at 128 with apollo TBolt).

Just amazes me how good it sounds.. I decided my work around from now on will be to use the PSP Bus compressor as it's true zero latency to mix into on the master buss and replace it and see if i can get a better result with UAD once all the live composing is done. Or I could buss every channel in PT to a buss with the UAD on it, and have the live channels going directly tp master so still low latency, and send them to same buss only after recording. That would work actually. Why didn't I think of that before LOL.

Trust me the UAD rev2 SSL G buss is incredible....truly.

For some alternatives not talked about too much, try vertigo from plugin alliance.. it's an emu of a clone afaik and it's a very decent plugin, zero latency also.

Also, the PSP as mentioned.

Arousor is also very convincing, it quite arouses me lol.. also zero latency. Arousor has a lot of control so it's not as set as forget as the others, has nothing to do with SSL, but it can do almost any compression task.. well.. it CAN do any.. works in all scenarios.
Old 24th August 2019
  #116
Lives for gear
Not going to lie. I was enjoying the music too much to notice any difference. Also, it's 3 AM and I'm tired.
Old 25th August 2019
  #117
Gear Head
 

CLA Mixhub is the one
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