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JJ Audio JJT67 VS Neumann K67
View Poll Results: Which pair of clips are the Neumann??
Voice 1 and Guit1 (Neumann)
16 Votes - 39.02%
Voice 1 and Guit2 (Neumann)
10 Votes - 24.39%
Voice 2 and Guit1 (Neumann)
6 Votes - 14.63%
Voice 2 and Guit2 (Neumann)
9 Votes - 21.95%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

Old 3rd January 2011
  #1
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

Talking JJ Audio JJT67 VS Neumann K67

After a long period of R and D we have finally released the JJT series capsules.

To see just how close our capsules have come to the Neumann K67 and K47, we have started a series of blind shootouts with a poll, so that we can gauge just how close people feel we have gotten with our new European assembled capsules.

Our first subject is the JJT67 capsule VS the venerable Neumann K67. The JJT67 is brand new and the Neumann K67 is reskinned by Thiersch.

Both capsules were installed in 2 identical modded Studio Project C1 microphones and recorded at the same time.

The clips are not level matched, please feel fee to download them and level match them in the DAW of your choice.

We have two sets of samples, one set is voice over with the Neumann and the JJT67 capsule and one set is acoustic guitar with the Neumann and the JJT67 capsule.

The voice over was done at 8 inches away and the acoustic guitar was 12 inches away.

Just to clarify, the 4 clips are using the same two mics (with the different capsules) so you can poll in pairs like this: 1 and 3, 1 and 4, 2 and 3, 2 and 4.

Please feel free to post your opinions and choose which capsule is the Neumann.

Thank you for your time and participation!

Peace
Illumination
Attached Files

Voice 1.mp3 (424.5 KB, 1824 views)

Voice 2.mp3 (424.5 KB, 1635 views)

Guit1.mp3 (1.23 MB, 1347 views)

Guit2.mp3 (1.23 MB, 1228 views)

Old 4th January 2011
  #2
Gear Head
 
Crybaby's Avatar
 

Spoken words are not satisfying, this is the best way to make two mics/capsules sound similar. I would need to hear some real singers and don't be afraid to put it up against many other mics on the same take, this way we can really get a good mental representation of what it does. Isn't it your challenge right now?
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crybaby View Post
Spoken words are not satisfying, this is the best way to make two mics/capsules sound similar. I would need to hear some real singers and don't be afraid to put it up against many other mics on the same take, this way we can really get a good mental representation of what it does. Isn't it your challenge right now?

Spoken word is a actually a very good presentation of what a capsule sounds like. You can hear the proximity effect, the amount of high frequencies and if any sibilance is present.

I have tested many capsules and mics with voice alone and the differences are clearly heard when the capsules are of different type and quality.

At this time I do not have any singers available. Please do not ask me to sing.......

The acoustic guitar is also a good format in that it has a variety of frequencies and tones. Recorded the guitar at 12" shows the bass response and transient action of the capsule

Judging the capsule with other capsules, would not show how close these capsules are in tonal quality.

The mics are identical Studio Projects C1s with the JJ Audio mod. They are not the newer models.

The JJT67 has 6 micron German gold sputtered Mylar.





Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Addict
I've never used a u67, or any neumanns for that matter. so take my comments with that in mind.

all 4 clips sound very good to me.
I picked the 1st clip for the voice and the 2nd clip for the guitar for the neumann.
it was not an easy choice, even after many listens.
it was educational for me. as in for the first time, after repeated listens, I started to understand more what people mean when they use the terms:

depth
extended
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
I don't know which is which, but I preferred 2nd clip for voice and for a first listen I guess also for the guitar... if this is the reskinned Neumann capsule, well how can I know..!?

Looking forward to results - is the modified Studio Project C1 microphones used for this test, with or without EQ compensating for the 67 high freq lift..?


::
Mads
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
I don't know which is which, but I preferred 2nd clip for voice and for a first listen I guess also for the guitar... if this is the reskinned Neumann capsule, well how can I know..!?

Looking forward to results - is the modified Studio Project C1 microphones used for this test, with or without EQ compensating for the 67 high freq lift..?


::
Mads
Thank you for listening.

The SP C1 has latest rendition of the EQ compensation built into the circuit.

The differences in the capsule tone is very subtle. Both capsules have similar sonic signatures.

Normally when I do a test like this the Neumann stands out and is immediately apparent. Most of the time, the proximity effect will give away the better capsule. That is why all of the voice samples that I do are about 8" away and the guitar samples are within 8 to 12" away. I have found that the differences are less noticeable when the source is outside of that range. The capsules sound more similar and the differences do not stand out.

I have tested many capsules with the Neumann K67 and have found these to be the closest in tone and response.

I would have a hard time deciding which one is the Neumann.

Tak for din deltagelse


Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
DanDaMan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
I don't know which is which, but I preferred 2nd clip for voice and for a first listen I guess also for the guitar... if this is the reskinned Neumann capsule, well how can I know..!?

Looking forward to results - is the modified Studio Project C1 microphones used for this test, with or without EQ compensating for the 67 high freq lift..?


::
Mads
Yeah, I thought exactly the same. heh
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

Keep the votes coming.

Please make sure you offer a blurb on what you like and don't like, why you liked it etc...Highs, mids and lows etc...

Make sure you let your buddies know about this thread, this is a pretty straight forward test, it is done for the sake of fun and fact finding at the same time. IMHO Both capsules sounds AMAZING.

Tell you what these capsules look like jewlery

PS I didn't vote yet

Peace
Illumination
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
MicDaddy's Avatar
 

Listened to both vox a/b then I took both files into individual channels, panned extreme to either side, on a pair Tannoy 800a near field, and Zxa5/sx300 (x6) mains. (level matched)

I thought they both sounded very good and useful, great description right.

I liked how vox 1 was very warm, very textured on the lower end the high end seemed a little (don't want to say rolled off) darker than a lot of LDC.

I liked how to me vox 2 was much more 'cutting through' in the mids, very forward and perhaps more articulate.

I could find use for both of these microphones and I did think they sounded very similar with the exception 1 being a little warmer on the low end and 2 being a tad cleaner and mid forward.

Neither sounded excessively bright which is a huge +++

Just my opinion others may hear differently.

I didn't listen to the guitar tracks, haven't voted yet.....
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicDaddy View Post
Listened to both vox a/b then I took both files into individual channels, panned extreme to either side, on a pair Tannoy 800a near field, and Zxa5/sx300 (x6) mains. (level matched)

I thought they both sounded very good and useful, great description right.

I liked how vox 1 was very warm, very textured on the lower end the high end seemed a little (don't want to say rolled off) darker than a lot of LDC.

I liked how to me vox 2 was much more 'cutting through' in the mids, very forward and perhaps more articulate.

I could find use for both of these microphones and I did think they sounded very similar with the exception 1 being a little warmer on the low end and 2 being a tad cleaner and mid forward.

Neither sounded excessively bright which is a huge +++

Just my opinion others may hear differently.

I didn't listen to the guitar tracks, haven't voted yet.....
Hey man welcome to the thread!

I really love your work with the tricking out of the RE20. There was one you did (I think?) with black metal flake and red grille mesh! WOOT!!!

We do sweet paint jobs (powder coating soon enough, fingers crossed) and grille work ourselves

Thanks for the cool feedback, these capsules being compared like this is truly exciting because truly there's not really a win/lose situation being presented here.

There is no capsule I would like to be upstaged by more than a Neumann K67, my FAVRITE capsule lol.

However, as you can see, people are voting in quite a few directions and I'm loving every minute of it. Soon enough we will have JJT47 in and we can compare that to the Neumann K47.

What's really truly bonkers is that the Studio Projects C1, modded and with one of these JJT67 is under $600.

I want a pair of these for stereo micing. They would RULE on drum overheads.

Make sure you rawk the vote!

Peace
Illumination
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #11
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat View Post
Tak for din deltagelse


Selv tak - [a danish Jacobsen maybe..?]
Old 4th January 2011 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Selv tak - [a danish Jacobsen maybe..?]

Yea,

My dad was from Denmark and my mom from Spain. Thats why I cant make up my mind........heh

Beautiful country I have a lot of relatives there.

I hope to get back there someday.
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #13
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haz-Mat-Strat View Post
Yea,

My dad was from Denmark and my mom from Spain. Thats why I cant make up my mind........heh
Sounds like a good mix!

::
Mads
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
Danders1's Avatar
I think that the voice #2 and the guitar #2 are the new capsule. I do not know what I am listening for however just throwing it out there.

With the 2nd acoustic especially you can hear the transiants better but it sounds slightly hyped up to me which is what I hear in a lot of the newer LDC's.

Thanks!
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #15
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didier.brest's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danders1 View Post
I think that the voice #2 and the guitar #2 are the new capsule. I do not know what I am listening for however just throwing it out there.

With the 2nd acoustic especially you can hear the transiants better but it sounds slightly hyped up to me which is what I hear in a lot of the newer LDC's.
+1.
Both mics sound rather different to my ears. I'm also preferring no.1 samples, especially on the guitar.
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #16
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illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
+1.
Both mics sound rather different to my ears. I'm also preferring no.1 samples, especially on the guitar.
Hello didier! heh

May I politely inquire as to your findings on the samples?

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

Peace
Illumination
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #17
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illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danders1 View Post
I think that the voice #2 and the guitar #2 are the new capsule. I do not know what I am listening for however just throwing it out there.

With the 2nd acoustic especially you can hear the transiants better but it sounds slightly hyped up to me which is what I hear in a lot of the newer LDC's.

Thanks!
The acoustic guitar test consistently throws me and I have the sample key.


Peace
Illumination
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #18
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didier.brest's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
May I politely inquire as to your findings on the samples?
I voted 1-1 since I preferred the smoothness from cap1. I never used an U67.
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

I'll have to join the crowd and say 1 and 1 are the Neumann and to me have more of that nice even thing which in the end feels more 'there'. Number 2 sounds good at first, but in comparison very hyped. Something that in a modern pop world, where everything is hyped in the end anyway, probably isn't a problem.

Do in general love the sound of the first of each a LOT. Like, VERY NICE!!
So now, please, please tell me the first lot is with YOUR capsules in there, not the Neumann......heh I'd be asking more questions about them then......
Old 5th January 2011 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Oh, and is that eq compensation part of the mod a secret, and if not, would it be transferable to a Gyraf G7 tube mic? hehheh
Old 6th January 2011 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
mhs2xs's Avatar
 

#1 on both

I also believe is the Neumann.

Thanks for the comparison. Either way, they both sound good.

Cheers Langston!
Mitchell
Old 7th January 2011 | Show parent
  #22
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Haz-Mat-Strat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Oh, and is that eq compensation part of the mod a secret, and if not, would it be transferable to a Gyraf G7 tube mic? hehheh


Do you have the feedback circuit installed on the G7?
Old 8th January 2011 | Show parent
  #23
Here for the gear
 
Danders1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
The acoustic guitar test consistently throws me and I have the sample key.


Peace
Illumination
I just want to mention that I listened again with fresh ears. There is a noticeable difference that I can hear especially in the acoustic, though slight. More forward in the upper mids and highs, but the sounds are very similar. Becoming more curious...
Old 8th January 2011 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
I preferred 2 and 4 (2nd mic on both vox and guitar). It was deeper and fuller and less strident on vocals, with a smoother and rounder top end. Guitar was more powerful sounding in 2nd mic. I am guessing 2 and 4 are the Neumann.
Old 8th January 2011 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
They both sound really, really similar to me...I really can't pick one as sounding higher quality, splitting hair differences.
I'll pick mic 1 for the voice and 3 on guitar as my slight favorites.
Old 9th January 2011 | Show parent
  #26
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

On the voice, I like #2 slightly better based on using it for VO. Had a little more upper mid cut and handled plosives better. I could hear a distinct thump on the first "check" and the first "three" on mic #1, which mic #2 didn't have, or at least wasn't as pronounced. I thought both sounded really good, and very similar.

I thought the guitars were VERY different. As said earlier, #4 was brighter and I could hear the transients much more clearly. I liked both and think my preference would change depending on what day you asked me, but if I had to pick one, it would be #3 because it did sound smoother to me.

I liked all the samples but couldn't tell you which is the Neumann and which is the JJT67.
Old 9th January 2011 | Show parent
  #27
I like no 2 best on voice.
Old 16th January 2011 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
resolve please
Old 16th January 2011 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

Talking

The poll will end on its listed date folks heh

Thats in February.

Too many poll results get skewed once the results are listed and the poll is still open.

Regarding the made in Europe information, its not Macedonia or Hungary.

Regarding QC it takes us 30 days for the full cycle of assembly, skinning and QC.

As far as naming our source, we'd like our source to remain our source.

Guess the capsule is giving people pause. Good! It took us a long time to get this right. We want to see if Gearslutz can find the Neumann. This lets us gauge how our capsule stands up.

As far as a random Chinese capsule, its really not worth comparing to. The bass, mids and highs are ALL different, as is the transient response.

I like the JJ67 and JJ47 as good capsules for people who are on a budget and still want a quality sound.

But the JJT series capsules are made to an entirely different standard and
perform to an entirely different standard. You can hear the difference immediately and I thought that it would be better to compare it to the capsule all K67 are judged by instead of dancing around the subject.

There's only a few weeks left so the results will be revealed when the poll closes. After that the JJT47 VS the granddaddy!

Thanks

Peace
Illumination
Old 17th January 2011 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Mark D.'s Avatar
 

Vocal One wasn't as smooth, or clear as Two. But the clarity is a relaxed
kind of clarity. Hard to describe. Just a more open sound, also less harsh.
Guitar One vs Two had worked out the same. One was okay, but there is
an openness, and nice resolution of the guitar in the room in Two, for me.

I won't guess which is which, since while I've heard Neumann mics, these
are capsules that are not being used in Neumanns so that's not the same.
I think one/one, two/two are the same, whatever they may be. It's magic
when a mic can be clearer, yet not as harsh. Not easy, not many do that.
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