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Vintage King - Summing Mixer VS ITB Processed Shootout! Saturation Plugins
View Poll Results: Which example is OTB?
1a is OTB
49 Votes - 39.52%
1b is OTB
75 Votes - 60.48%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll

Old 23rd January 2011
  #91
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Ok lets hear it!
Old 23rd January 2011
  #92
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

B = otb.

What I find amusing is that anyone could have have just downloaded the files from the Vintage King website and figured out which file was OTB. I'm surprised that the votes weren't further a part. heh
Old 23rd January 2011
  #93
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djmukilteo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo View Post
B=OTB
A=ITB

"A" was crisper, edgey, glassy
"B" had the edge smoothed off, warmer

Some sound people will like the crispy sound
Some sound people will like the smoother sound
All depends on what certain people prefer
Most consumer listeners can't hear a difference using earbuds all the time
And the majority don't really care!
So what's the point?
Yeah for me!
what do I win
does this mean OTB is better?

It was a good test though and having the poll and waiting to reveal...all good
Straightforward, easy to listen...good job djanthonyw nice test!
Old 23rd January 2011
  #94
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Thank you, and also to everyone that voted.

I really want to do a proper test though if someone has a project they would like to use PM me.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #95
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo View Post
does this mean OTB is better?
short answer: yes
long answer: theres no spoon

I liked B more, and A sounded more like what I used to get ITB.
Old 24th January 2011
  #96
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thedigitalgod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimthepisces View Post
Well, first of all, I hope everyone votes before they read the replies on the thread.

That being said....


All the A's are definitely OTB. No question. They blend together and are in harmony with each other, whereas the B's fight each other. I think the biggest difference was in the first track. 1a to me sounded powerful and moving while 1b sounded underwhelming. The next two tracks repeated these findings. It would be nice if the B's were OTB....that would mean 1 less piece of gear I have to buy down the road!
the good news is: you just saved a lot of money by switching your sonic taste to harsh and brittle heh
Old 24th January 2011
  #97
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
B = otb.

What I find amusing is that anyone could have have just downloaded the files from the Vintage King website and figured out which file was OTB. I'm surprised that the votes weren't further a part. heh
Ha, that's what I did. I thought your b) .mp3 sounded more hyped than the VK .wav Dangerous 'driven' file. The a) file sounded closer to the VK example.

How did you process the ITB file?
Old 24th January 2011
  #98
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mljung's Avatar
I was one of those who actually thought that A was OTB.

What I found was not the big difference between A and B tonally as I didn't really care for any of them, but simply that B sounded more processed and disintegrated than A.
I simply thought it sounded as if it was put through "analogue" emulation plugins.

Anyhow now I know that real analog summing can have this effect too and that's pretty interesting new knowledge.

So maybe it's time to reveal in detail what equipment was actually in use here!

::
Mads
Old 24th January 2011
  #99
Deleted #157546
Guest
Someone should start a new thread titled...

Analog summing...worth the money?

See what kind of poll we can get with that.
Old 28th January 2011
  #100
Here for the gear
Analog summing is worth the money but of course if you can really hear the difference...
Old 31st January 2011
  #101
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Amun Ra's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleo View Post
Analog summing is worth the money but of course if you can really hear the difference...
I'm starting to get a little bit tired of these summing-freaks trying to push their confirmation-biased beliefs on everyone else.

It's like they think they are the only one with ears. Not regular ears, but SUPER-EARS! Only the people equipped with the summing-freak super-ear will be able to tell if something sounds good or not. It has nothing to do with aestetics, taste or opinion. It's like everyone who didn't vote for B being OTB is accused of being semi-deaf, or bad AE:s or something.

Why not simply admit that they sound kind of close (which they do), and that there really is no overwhelming consensus regarding the benifits of summing.

Really tiresome.
Old 31st January 2011
  #102
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amun Ra View Post
Really tiresome.
They sound very close, most regular listeners will find it hard to tear them apart. But we are like chefs here, would you say its wrong to aim at developing SUPER TASTE?

B sounds better - period
Old 31st January 2011
  #103
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I'd be more interested to hear summing in the box with vcc or nebula console programs on each track and buss vs otb summing.
Old 1st February 2011
  #104
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amun Ra View Post
I'm starting to get a little bit tired of these summing-freaks trying to push their confirmation-biased beliefs on everyone else.

It's like they think they are the only one with ears. Not regular ears, but SUPER-EARS! Only the people equipped with the summing-freak super-ear will be able to tell if something sounds good or not. It has nothing to do with aestetics, taste or opinion.
We're (many of us) PAID to be high end experts. We expected to have better hearing, more discerning tastes etc....Not with the tastes or hearing of the common man - but tuned and trained (self or otherwise) facilitators for product directed by those who DO have the tastes as directed. To be able to tell that B - in this test - has a vastly more euphonic quality, is of a generally higher sonic virtue - is part f the job. whether the man in the street can tell, whether you agree or any other stamp[ of approval just has not relevance. Why are the best cinematographers in the biz paid for expert opinions that don't matter.... ? Because to many squeezing the tiniest bit of quality and/or competitive edge matters.

Those who love A ? No problem.... that's their right. Those who prefer B? Same again - but my thoughts would be "yes that guy can hear the better quality". So - whether you're tired of it or not has no relevance. The fact that some have a preference is a good thing.
Old 1st February 2011
  #105
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Amun Ra, I think you may be interested in the current shootout. ITB VS OTB Summing Shootout Part 2!
Old 1st February 2011
  #106
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
Amun Ra, I think you may be interested in the current shootout. ITB VS OTB Summing Shootout Part 2!
a good one indeed
Old 1st February 2011
  #107
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mljung's Avatar
Please let us know what equipment was used.!?
I can't find this info anywhere

I still believe that both A and B sounds too processed, with B sounding even more processed. This showed up being OTB processing, but again without knowing what equipment was used I don't know what I could learn from this test, other than the obvious: don't over-process!

::
Mads
Old 1st February 2011
  #108
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Please let us know what equipment was used.!?
I can't find this info anywhere

I still believe that both A and B sounds too processed, with B sounding even more processed. This showed up being OTB processing, but again without knowing what equipment was used I don't know what I could learn from this test, other than the obvious: don't over-process!

::
Mads
As I mentioned, the B files are the OTB (D2B driven) examples taken from the Vintage King website. I did not process them, just adjusted the volume.
Old 1st February 2011
  #109
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
As I mentioned, the B files are the OTB (D2B driven) examples taken from the Vintage King website. I did not process them, just adjusted the volume.
I see, that wasn't clear as I didn't go to Vintage King Website. I reckon the D2B is the so called Dangerous 2-bus.
We usually discuss if software can sound like hardware, but after this I would ask the opposite: can hardware sound like software...

::
Mads
Old 1st February 2011
  #110
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Please let us know what equipment was used.!?
I can't find this info anywhere

I still believe that both A and B sounds too processed, with B sounding even more processed. This showed up being OTB processing, but again without knowing what equipment was used I don't know what I could learn from this test, other than the obvious: don't over-process!

::
Mads
??


I mean
????

Of course they're processed. They're mixes!!!
Old 1st February 2011
  #111
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
??


I mean
????

Of course they're processed. They're mixes!!!
Yes but too much so in my opinion, and my point is that over-processing doesn't sound good just because it's OTB.

::
Mads
Old 1st February 2011
  #112
Gear Addict
 
Amun Ra's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
To be able to tell that B - in this test - has a vastly more euphonic quality, is of a generally higher sonic virtue - is part f the job. whether the man in the street can tell, whether you agree or any other stamp[ of approval just has not relevance.
I disagree. You claim that B has a "vastly more euphonic quality" than A. But everyone did not vote B in this case. 40 percent of the participants, including me, actually prefered A.

Now, hypothetically, it could be that all "PAID high end experts" with "more discerning tastes vastly greater than the tastes or hearing of the common man" voted B.

My first point is that you don't know if that is the case. Neither do I.

My second point is that "euphonic quality" is, to some degree, a matter of taste. Some like more sugar in their coffe than others. Some like oil paintings and some like acrylic. Some brilliant engineers mix bright and some mix mellow. Some people hate opera and some people love it. And I know for a fact that not all brilliant cinematographers in the world agree on all aestethic issues either.
Old 1st February 2011
  #113
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amun Ra View Post
I disagree. You claim that B has a "vastly more euphonic quality" than A. But everyone did not vote B in this case. 40 percent of the participants, including me, actually prefered A.

Now, hypothetically, it could be that all "PAID high end experts" with "more discerning tastes vastly greater than the tastes or hearing of the common man" voted B.

My first point is that you don't know if that is the case. Neither do I.

My second point is that "euphonic quality" is, to some degree, a matter of taste. Some like more sugar in their coffe than others. Some like oil paintings and some like acrylic. Some brilliant engineers mix bright and some mix mellow. Some people hate opera and some people love it. And I know for a fact that not all brilliant cinematographers in the world agree on all aestethic issues either.
I agree - euphonic is a subjective word.
We all have to accept difference, disagreements...

I tend to like mellow sound more than hard, in general or "warm" or "musical" two other subjective words. Anyhow I don't find that in either A or B here and certainly no ""euphonic quality" either.

::
Mads
Old 1st February 2011
  #114
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amun Ra View Post
I disagree. You claim that B has a "vastly more euphonic quality" than A. But everyone did not vote B in this case. 40 percent of the participants, including me, actually prefered A.

Now, hypothetically, it could be that all "PAID high end experts" with "more discerning tastes vastly greater than the tastes or hearing of the common man" voted B.

My first point is that you don't know if that is the case. Neither do I.

My second point is that "euphonic quality" is, to some degree, a matter of taste. Some like more sugar in their coffe than others. Some like oil paintings and some like acrylic. Some brilliant engineers mix bright and some mix mellow. Some people hate opera and some people love it. And I know for a fact that not all brilliant cinematographers in the world agree on all aestethic issues either.

No one is more "right" than anyone else. But some peoples opinion carry more weight than others {in my case within the soundtrack world}. There is absolutely nothing that says I'm more right than anyone else....... however - I do a lot of AAA product in the soundtrack world which means my "version" gets heard more than most. In other words - whether others like it or not - how I see/hear audio gets shoved down the throats of the great unwashed.....

In my opinion, and I'll say that again for effect, "in MY OPINION" if you like A more then you probably will struggle more to convince people in my field that you should "do the job". Yes it's subjective, yes it's completely biased - and heck, it probably sounds arrogant. It's not mean to be - but under my roof and under my decision making professional work - that's how it is!! Asked which of those two mixes to accept for a sync {and trust me - that's often he way .... you don't get a "no favoured candidate vote" in the work I do} then I'd reject A. Why? My professional judgement {the opinion I'm paid to have} tells me to do that.

Doesn't make me any more "right" than anyone else. But my opinion carries weight on the projects I'm employed to do! That's all I meant! heh
Old 1st February 2011
  #115
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Yes but too much so in my opinion, and my point is that over-processing doesn't sound good just because it's OTB.

::
Mads
It's not the mix itself or the production decisions {which of course don't change} but how the elements combine. Well - at least that's how a read it !! heh
Old 15th March 2015
  #116
Gear Head
 

A- instruments sound detached and high frequencies sounds like a trash and edgy
B- instruments sounds like merged together and high frequencies sounds smooth and transparent (airy)
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