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Vintage King - Summing Mixer VS ITB Processed Shootout! Saturation Plugins
View Poll Results: Which example is OTB?
1a is OTB
49 Votes - 39.52%
1b is OTB
75 Votes - 60.48%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll

Old 17th January 2011
  #61
Gear Nut
 

I prefer "B"... must be ITB ! heh
Old 17th January 2011
  #62
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mljung's Avatar
I tried to listen again because I was surprised that so many voted B as ITB.

What struck me this time was not the difference between A and B but that the general sound-quality of all files were pretty bad in my opinion, generally harsh, lacking body, life and air.

The difference between the two [A-B] is so tiny in comparison, that I doubt any meaningful result can come out of this, other than: the difference between summing ITB and OTB won't make bad or half-good recordings sound good.

I know this post may sound a little unfriendly and I apologize for that, but I thought it was better to reveal my thoughts...



::
Mads
Old 17th January 2011
  #63
Gear Head
 

answer answer
Old 18th January 2011
  #64
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Arksun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
The difference between the two [A-B] is so tiny in comparison, that I doubt any meaningful result can come out of this, other than: the difference between summing ITB and OTB won't make bad or half-good recordings sound good.
Really?, my right ear is currently screwed and I can hear a significant difference between A and B.

Main differences is brighter top end on the A's. A sounds more hyped to me, B sounds more natural.

I prefer B. If B is the ITB mix then thats cool
Old 18th January 2011
  #65
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

crikey yes - significant difference between both but I concede that you have to know what to listen for.... As I said before - I don't care either way what's ITB or OTB - but A sucks and B is pretty nice!
Old 18th January 2011
  #66
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Im curious about why anybody would pick A as sounding better, in the poll its getting so close to B. This has to be a monitoring issue? The difference is pretty drastic in both my focals and HD800. B has better stereo and an in-your-face thing

It aint subtle in any way, but its not as drastic as changing the vocalist or muting the drums either, and its not coloring the signal to make it sound like a neve, so, its doing as advertised: summing the tracks with better separation while keeping itself out of the equation.

If the two tracks were produced by two different studios, I would got o B 100% of the time.
Old 18th January 2011
  #67
Deleted #157546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yohami View Post
Im curious about why anybody would pick A as sounding better, in the poll its getting so close to B. This has to be a monitoring issue? The difference is pretty drastic in both my focals and HD800. B has better stereo and an in-your-face thing

It aint subtle in any way, but its not as drastic as changing the vocalist or muting the drums either, and its not coloring the signal to make it sound like a neve, so, its doing as advertised: summing the tracks with better separation while keeping itself out of the equation.

If the two tracks were produced by two different studios, I would got o B 100% of the time.

It's not what sounds the best. It's which one do you think is OTB.
Old 18th January 2011
  #68
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
It's not what sounds the best. It's which one do you think is OTB.
yeah, but the point is OTB should sound the best. I dont think anyone is picking up A or B as OTB thinking its also the worst sounding
Old 18th January 2011
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yohami View Post
yeah, but the point is OTB should sound the best. I dont think anyone is picking up A or B as OTB thinking its also the worst sounding

Oh really, maybe I'll just run out and buy a behringer 16 channel board and pump my stuff through that....it must be better.

Perhaps you should have a look at this....

Avid | HEAT Listening Challenge
Old 18th January 2011
  #70
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by galoz View Post
answer answer
heh

If I post the answer before the poll ends I know that all of a sudden people will start voting like crazy.
Old 18th January 2011
  #71
Deleted #157546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
heh

If I post the answer before the poll ends I know that all of a sudden people will start voting like crazy.

I think it's already a bit skewed anyway....but good point.
Old 18th January 2011
  #72
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
Perhaps you should have a look at this....
Avid | HEAT Listening Challenge
Yeah, thanks, I was checking that test a few days ago and decided to skip it, as I cant trust a comparison that is sponsored by one of the involved parties. I didnt like A, B nor C. C seemed overdrived on purpose, so I guess that was "HEAT" and that the more dull mix, A, was supposedly the SSL. Did I score?
Old 18th January 2011
  #73
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djanthonyw View Post
heh

If I post the answer before the poll ends I know that all of a sudden people will start voting like crazy.
Haha, the voting for the winner kind of thing. Everybody wants to be right. If B happents to be ITB Im selling my folcrom
Old 18th January 2011
  #74
Deleted #157546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yohami View Post
Yeah, thanks, I was checking that test a few days ago and decided to skip it, as I cant trust a comparison that is sponsored by one of the involved parties. I didnt like A, B nor C. C seemed overdrived on purpose, so I guess that was "HEAT" and that the more dull mix, A, was supposedly the SSL. Did I score?

Put down your ego for a second....

ok...

Now go back and read.

The comparison was between ITB, Summed Neve, and HEAT (which emulates a neve.)
Old 18th January 2011
  #75
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
Put down your ego for a second....

ok...

Now go back and read.

The comparison was between ITB, Summed Neve, and HEAT (which emulates a neve.)
Aight, I assumed they hacked the test to make HEAT win. I´ll do the test and find out

EDIT: yeah, Neve, whatever, I saw it more as an informertial than a real test. Checking it again.
Old 18th January 2011
  #76
Deleted #157546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yohami View Post
Aight, I assumed they hacked the test to make HEAT win. I´ll do the test and find out

Don't worry...they're not out to get you.
Old 18th January 2011
  #77
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
Don't worry...they're not out to get you.
They are, and to get you too, and your money. The best trick they ever pulled out was to convince everybody they arent out to get you
Old 18th January 2011
  #78
Deleted #157546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yohami View Post
They are, and to get you too, and your money. The best trick they ever pulled out was to convince everybody they arent out to get you

And this is coming from someone who owns a summing box...
Old 18th January 2011
  #79
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
And this is coming from someone who owns a summing box...
And would own a big desk if I could afford it
Old 18th January 2011
  #80
Gear Nut
 

I suspect Anthony 'processed' the ITB samples, first to match the summing file as close as he could, then maybe tweak a bit people's expectations of what improvement OTB summing might sound like, compared to the genuine OTB summing file. There's a solidity in the lows of the a) file not matched on the b) files.

I think a) is the Dangerous 2-bus. It sounds a little more 'glued' and less 'tweaked,' although the D/A and A/D conversion from and to the box may be more important to the resulting sound than your brand of analog summing mixer.

Will be curious to read whether I'm a sage or a sap, and what DJA used on the ITB files to process them. When you gain match the VK samples by ear, I am unable to hear $2.6k worth of difference between the Dangerous and the computer. A subtle 'betterness' on the bottom and a pleasant rounding on the top. Which is what the new 'game changer' plugs are offering. And there will inevitably be more to follow.

Also notice DJA's mp3's are slightly different bit rates. A shootout with mp3's should have a common, fixed bit rate conversion, if only for the scientific method.
Old 18th January 2011
  #81
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
Really?, my right ear is currently screwed and I can hear a significant difference between A and B.

Main differences is brighter top end on the A's. A sounds more hyped to me, B sounds more natural.

I prefer B. If B is the ITB mix then thats cool
I hear a difference, but the point was that the general sound-quality of the mix seems so processed already, that the ITB/OTB difference doesn't make any of them sound good.
Still I find A more coherent sounding, and that's what I expect would be a characteristic of OTB.

::
Mads
Old 18th January 2011
  #82
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post

The comparison was between ITB, Summed Neve, and HEAT (which emulates a neve.)
groovey - although no-one is selling HEAT as a Neve emulator. It's supposed to do tape when you turn the drive knob left and transformers to the right. And it's not bad!!
Old 18th January 2011
  #83
Deleted #157546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
groovey - although no-one is selling HEAT as a Neve emulator. It's supposed to do tape when you turn the drive knob left and transformers to the right. And it's not bad!!

Actually, from what I've heard, HEAT is a Neve emulation....not that's it's officially marketed that way.

I could have been told wrong I suppose, but it makes sense that they are comparing HEAT to a summed Neve and not a tape machine.
Old 18th January 2011
  #84
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
Actually, from what I've heard, HEAT is a Neve emulation....not that's it's officially marketed that way.

I could have been told wrong I suppose, but it makes sense that they are comparing HEAT to a summed Neve and not a tape machine.
well - the user guide says "turn it to the left for tape ish sounds " etc etc !
Old 18th January 2011
  #85
Deleted #157546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
well - the user guide says "turn it to the left for tape ish sounds " etc etc !

Ah I see.

Well this may be the case, but HEAT doesn't sound anything like my Crane Song Phoenix. (Which you can actually drive into heavy tape compression.)

Regardless, I am very happy with both.
Old 18th January 2011
  #86
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

the HEAT test for me was: A clean, B mildly saturated, C distorted. Since C was more exaggerated and easier to pick apart I guess that was "HEAT", I didnt like any of these anyway, and I wouldnt trust a test ran by the manufacturer so... lazy to go back and complete it just to find the keys
Old 19th January 2011
  #87
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
Ah I see.

Well this may be the case, but HEAT doesn't sound anything like my Crane Song Phoenix. (Which you can actually drive into heavy tape compression.)

Regardless, I am very happy with both.
yup me too. It's a great system - I prefer it to Phoenix.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #88
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Ok, last chance to vote!
Old 23rd January 2011
  #89
Gear Nut
 

Only five voters left !
Old 23rd January 2011
  #90
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djanthonyw's Avatar
 

Well chances are the poll will end before that, in an hour and a half. My estimation for 80 votes was pretty close.
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