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Vintage King - Summing Mixer VS ITB Processed Shootout! Saturation Plugins
View Poll Results: Which example is OTB?
1a is OTB
49 Votes - 39.52%
1b is OTB
75 Votes - 60.48%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll

Old 5th January 2011
  #31
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The dman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spice house View Post
All this B is better talk is throwing the polls! it used be almost dead even
Hopefully most people will trust their own judgment. I voted B because that's what I heard but there have been tests where I voted against the grain

I do want to say that 2 tracks is a whole lot different than separate tracks or even stemming so I only wouldn't take the results as an absolute. djanthonyw thanks for doing this.
Old 6th January 2011
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The dman View Post
I do want to say that 2 tracks is a whole lot different than separate tracks or even stemming so I only wouldn't take the results as an absolute. djanthonyw thanks for doing this.
Indeed, which is why I'd also love to do a full test on a project that has all tracks fully available if anyone has something they can share.
Old 6th January 2011
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spice house View Post
All this B is better talk is throwing the polls! it used be almost dead even
+1 Used to be VERY even. I hope people are listening before reading the whole thread.
Old 6th January 2011
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
..... from the mutton deaf rush to the finish crowd.... hoho!
lol wtf is this... all i know is im using it
Old 7th January 2011
  #35
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amenbrother's Avatar
Voted b for otb from experience on itb d&b/ techno mixing. For me, the high end on A sounds a bit nasty compared to B. Didnt read any replys before listening.
Old 8th January 2011
  #36
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B sounds much better! Better separation and resolution. I would say it's OTB.
But...it's too much better than A.
Maybe the store is trying to fool us
Old 8th January 2011
  #37
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 

B has better stereo separation, I guess thats the OTB
Old 8th January 2011
  #38
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subscribed.
Old 8th January 2011
  #39
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4 more til 80! doo iittt

edit: oh wait its 80 one or the other SAD FACE!!!!
Old 8th January 2011
  #40
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heh
Old 8th January 2011
  #41
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Dudevico's Avatar
 

I'm feeling B. Both sound nice though, which kinda makes me happy since I do it ITB
Old 10th January 2011
  #42
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13 more days....
Old 12th January 2011
  #43
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Alright guys, I will reveal the answers early IF there's someone willing to do another test with me. Anyone with a hardware summing box or quality mixer please PM me if interested. Even if someone doesn't PM me early enough to reveal the answers early, I would like to do one more shootout, so please contact me.
Old 12th January 2011
  #44
Gear Addict
 

I only listened to the first song, but I'm guessing that #2 is OTB. It's close enough to be irrelevant as far as I am concerned.
Old 12th January 2011
  #45
I liked B a lot more in all three cases. OTB?
Old 12th January 2011
  #46
Gear Addict
 

on crappy laptop speakers both sound the same
basically the dangerous has no character and no color and is near an itb summing so its difficult to tell, maybe in the studio it reveal differences but not on this **** im listening to

if it was a tube tech, shadow hills, fat bastard etc the difference would be just huge, ITB and OTB would be two totally different tracks, dangerous has no character, id much better stick with the ITB mix instead of this summing box

cheers
Old 13th January 2011
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christosm View Post
on crappy laptop speakers both sound the same
basically the dangerous has no character and no color and is near an itb summing so its difficult to tell, maybe in the studio it reveal differences but not on this **** im listening to

if it was a tube tech, shadow hills, fat bastard etc the difference would be just huge, ITB and OTB would be two totally different tracks, dangerous has no character, id much better stick with the ITB mix instead of this summing box

cheers
I think in general, it's that fact the people believe there is something WRONG with ITB mixing; that's not true. But if your driving your outs into a chandler mixer or tube tech or whatever to add color or a certain characteristic....that's different.

I don't like the fact that Dangerous gear is marketed as "solution to your problem" type of product.
Old 13th January 2011
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvo86 View Post
I don't like the fact that Dangerous gear is marketed as "solution to your problem" type of product.
Assuming B is OTB, I like the stereo separation there more

If somebody else has better stereo separation than me, thats a problem. If thats something I can fix by throwing a few hundreds in, why not fix it.
Old 13th January 2011
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yohami View Post
Assuming B is OTB, I like the stereo separation there more

If somebody else has better stereo separation than me, thats a problem. If thats something I can fix by throwing a few hundreds in, why not fix it.

More like 13 hundreds.

I'd rather buy the BLA summing box which is transformer based....and cheaper.
Old 13th January 2011
  #50
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Im curious about the BLA one. My money went into a Folcrom though
Old 13th January 2011
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
B sounds better by miles, the As sounded distorted and harsh.
Especially the metal mix. I'd wager even the ipod kids would hear the difference there - those guitars in the A mix are obnoxious!

I voted for B as being the otb summing because they sound significantly better, but, since I really don't want to spend $5000 for another 16 channel converter and summing mixer and then have to solder together another patch bay, I'd really really love it if the otb mixes were the A's.

A man can hope.

djanthonyw, for the next shootout you should try to include the Slate VCC as well!
Old 14th January 2011
  #52
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A) seems to be at LEAST 1dB quieter than B).

When the vocals enter on the first sample, I'm measuring between -10.4 and -9.3 dB RMS on A, but B seems to be around -9.3 to -8.2 dB RMS.

That'll skew the results somewhat, although I do think B sounds better all round. The soundstage/positioning of instruments in A seems a little blurry in comparison to B, where it sounds like everything is taking up it's own 'space'. I don't know whether that means it's ITB or OTB, so I guessed it was OTB.
Old 14th January 2011
  #53
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Amun Ra's Avatar
 

thanks for this. I think that all the A's sound best. I would suspect that A is analog summing, but I'd be thrilled if it wasn't :-). That would be a lot cheaper for me . Reveal! C'mon there's been over 80 participants in the poll already...
Old 14th January 2011
  #54
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Thumbs up

I thought the country clips were A OTB
Couldn't distingish the Jazz clips but there are level differences.
On the metal clips I'd say B is OTB.

The conclusion is the ITB sounds better if you listen on 5 in PC speakers
Old 14th January 2011
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinksdingo View Post
I thought the country clips were A OTB
Couldn't distingish the Jazz clips but there are level differences.
On the metal clips I'd say B is OTB.

The conclusion is the ITB sounds better if you listen on 5 in PC speakers

It's either one or the other....
Old 14th January 2011
  #56
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spencergs's Avatar
 

I too thought B sounded better..

But regardless, this has pointed out that the difference here is not drastic and doesn't hurt my ears like some people have led me to believe. You can make really, really good music ITB too.

Some users brought up a good point in that we should also try summing with individual tracks, and with different gear (high end stuff too), and then set all the tracks to similar volumes, and then have a go again.

Also, someone may have posted this link already, but checkout the shootout Avid did comparing the SSL eqs and comps to the Waves SSL series. In the quizzes on the page, I consistently got 4/7, but the differences were so minimal that most of the time I was guessing and couldn't hear any difference. Keep in mind I was listening in an untreated room on KRK Rokit 5s. But anyway, I'm not too concerned with having analog gear to make my sound better; I'm more concerned with improving my mixing skills, and perhaps treating my room

Avid Shootout link: Pro Tools vs. Analog Console Mixing Experiment

ALSO, here's another one: Avid | HEAT Listening Challenge

btw, thanks OP!!
Old 14th January 2011
  #57
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still gobsmacked that anyone likes A at all!!! ..... dont care whether it's ITB or OTB - you deliver that to me and I'd be looking for someone else to do the work !! hehehe
Old 14th January 2011
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencergs View Post
I too thought B sounded better..

But regardless, this has pointed out that the difference here is not drastic and doesn't hurt my ears like some people have led me to believe. You can make really, really good music ITB too.

Some users brought up a good point in that we should also try summing with individual tracks, and with different gear (high end stuff too), and then set all the tracks to similar volumes, and then have a go again.

Also, someone may have posted this link already, but checkout the shootout Avid did comparing the SSL eqs and comps to the Waves SSL series. In the quizzes on the page, I consistently got 4/7, but the differences were so minimal that most of the time I was guessing and couldn't hear any difference. Keep in mind I was listening in an untreated room on KRK Rokit 5s. But anyway, I'm not too concerned with having analog gear to make my sound better; I'm more concerned with improving my mixing skills, and perhaps treating my room

Avid Shootout link: Pro Tools vs. Analog Console Mixing Experiment

ALSO, here's another one: Avid | HEAT Listening Challenge

btw, thanks OP!!

Thanks for the links!!!
Old 15th January 2011
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencergs View Post
I too thought B sounded better..

But regardless, this has pointed out that the difference here is not drastic and doesn't hurt my ears like some people have led me to believe. You can make really, really good music ITB too.

Some users brought up a good point in that we should also try summing with individual tracks, and with different gear (high end stuff too), and then set all the tracks to similar volumes, and then have a go again.
It will make a difference as will the summing box,the console,outboard etc.I wouldn't be making a decision based off of 2 tracks going through a clean (but good) summing box which it sounds like you are.
Old 15th January 2011
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The dman View Post
It will make a difference as will the summing box,the console,outboard etc.I wouldn't be making a decision based off of 2 tracks going through a clean (but good) summing box which it sounds like you are.

I think the link spencergs posted is probably the best A/B/C comparison I have seen. Yep, decision to stay ITB has saved me a lot of money. Workflow of a console is one thing, but there is CLEARLY no obvious advantage sonically for the price that companies are charging for "summing."

"Analog summing or mixing" can be reproduced ITB as the example demonstrated.
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