The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Bruaner vs Schoeps/KM184/AT2020 Condenser Microphones
Old 16th October 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 

Brauner vs Schoeps/KM184/AT2020

Hi, I posted some Brauner VM1 vs Schoeps tracks back a while when I first was checking out the Brauners, and people suggested that the comparison was flawed due to the different preamps being used. I just did a new comparison where I used two decent signal chains, and ran each of the left/right mics being compared thru the same path. The left side is

Great River MP2-H, Cranesong HEDD, RME AES32 card

right side:

AEA RPQ, Mytel Stereo96, RME AES32 card

So each pair of stereo mics is split between the GR chain and the AEA chain, the left Brauner and left Mic X is thru the GR, the right Brauner and right mic X thru the AEA.

I ran 3 tests, using a pair of Brauners, one VM1 (left) and one VM1 Lite (right) as the reference. The mics are set up as spaced pairs on acoustic guitar, and I set the brauners up first, then placed the other mics as close as I could to the same position. Three separate recordings, but each comparison was recorded simultaneously.

Competing mics were Schoeps CM6/MK41, Neumann KM184, AT2020. Other than attempting to match levels, no processing on any tracks. The brauners are in cardiod mode.

In the following, the Brauner's are always first, then the other mics. (Again, recorded simultaneously, but pasted in as one after the other). These are 16 bit wav files, about 8M each.


Brauner vs Schoeps CMC6/MK41


Brauner vs KM184


Brauner vs AT2020

Any comments or suggestions welcome.
Old 17th October 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 

To be honest they all sound nice to me .Brauner is nice and warm but ill take any of them for the guitar . Its amazing that 2020 sound so good in comparation to other beasts .
Old 18th October 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

My preference order

1 Brauner (richest sound)
2 AT2020
3 KM184
4 MK41 (a bit dull with respect to the other ones ?)

Thank you for sharing.
Old 18th October 2009
  #4
Gear Addict
 

To my ears:

Brauner: the smoothest of the bunch, but comes off as a little bland.
Neumann: very rich and smooth, but with a little top-end character that I like.
Schoeps: too mellow.
Audio-Technica: ever so slightly thin-sounding.

Each of these mics provides great results, but I would definitely go with the Neumanns. They have a wonderful sound and are an excellent value considering how little they cost compared to Schoeps and Brauner.
Old 18th October 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 

is it me or there's some kind of wow & flutter in the samples ?

the AT2020 is surprisingly excellent for its price, but has no midrange, sounds cold, doesn't go as low as the Brauner

the KM84 sounds quite dark, but i like it. it doesn't really sound like a SDC

the Brauner sounds very refined, big, impressive, like a record.

the Schoeps sounds kinda like the KM84 but darker, and maybe less detailled
Old 18th October 2009
  #6
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hankdrummer View Post
is it me or there's some kind of wow & flutter in the samples ?
Hmm, not that I hear. If anyone else hears something, I'd like to know

Quote:
the KM84 sounds quite dark, but i like it. it doesn't really sound like a SDC
Interesting that people hear different things. Note that it's a KM184, not the older, darker KM84.
Old 18th October 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Schaap's Avatar
The Schoeps MK41 is a supercardoid capsule and has a stronger proximity effect and less 'room' pickup as the other cardoids. If the distant is rather small it can influence the tonal balance more. Don't know the spaced pair setup.

Nice recordings and I love the guitar playing. The Brauners are very nice!

Henk
Old 19th October 2009
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Nice playing...

Brauner sounds nice.

I'll never ever ever be able to afford that.

The 2020's $90.

I tried imitating the Brauner using the 2020 sample.

It's not exact obviously, but, pretty close over here,
and for $90.
Attached Files

Brauner imitation.wav (4.27 MB, 416 views)

Old 19th October 2009
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angler View Post
I tried imitating the Brauner using the 2020 sample.

It's not exact obviously, but, pretty close over here,
and for $90.
Your version sounds good. At least for this particular example, the 2020 was pretty amazing. I threw it in just for grins,and was surprised how good it sounded. I think I got mine for $79, they were too cheap not to have a couple on hand.
Old 19th October 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Well done, the imitation is good. But it's only an imitation. The truth sounds fuller. In this test, the Brauner sounds to me much better than the three other mikes.
Old 20th October 2009
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

I might consider that 2020 for a first mic after hearing this. I was thinking of the CAD M179 also because I heard it was really flexible. Do you know if all the switches on the CAD really make a difference? I'm looking for the usual acoustic guitar and voice mic. Thanks for any advice.
Old 20th October 2009
  #12
Gear Addict
The switches on the CAD definitely do make a difference. The pad lowers in the level, the high pass cuts bass, and the pattern switches change the directional characteristics.

Fran
Old 22nd October 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Hello Doug and thanks for the informative samples. They tell me some things that I knew already such as:
1 Quality playing is so much more important than gear choice(your playing quite beautiful btw)
2 The Brauner is very nice -I wonder how the valvet would do in this application? as it's closer to my price range

And some things I did not know:
1 the km184's do suprisingly well in your application considering all the bashing on gs
2 the at's while not my first choice sound very good considering

I checked your site and wow - what a collection of great guitars. I see you have the Bown bari that recorded the last track on "leaves of Life". I have the Sobell that recorded the first track of that record. small world, or made smaller by the internet I guess. Anyway thanks again for the samples. Greg
Old 22nd October 2009
  #14
Gear Head
 

Thanks Gregory. I thought about trying the Valvet or even the Phantom C, but found these VM1s at a good price. My web site's in need of some updating, I sold that Bown quite a while back, to someone in the UK, so it's back home again. Martin Simpson did own it at one point, supposedly (never can be sure of these things), but it's newer than his leaves of life CD, so he couldn't have used it on that, tho that's what the person I bought it from told me. Long story... Cool guitar, but I always struggled with the 28.5 scale, and sold it after I got a 27.5 McCollum that was a little bit less of a stretch!
Old 25th October 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Very nice samples! What guitar did you use for this?

I prefer:

1. Brauner (full, clear and open)
2. Schoeps
3. Neumann
4. AT

Oliver
Old 25th October 2009
  #16
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzjoe View Post
Very nice samples! What guitar did you use for this?
The guitar's a Ryan Mission Grand Concert.

I've been proceeding on my recording project, using the Brauners and Schoeps simultaneously. I'm not so much planning to blend them as to have a choice. A little different setup, I went back to my usual favorite with the Schoeps, MS with the MK8 capsule. So far, so good, and it's a tough choice between them.
Old 27th October 2009
  #17
Lives for gear
 

This Ryan guitar sounds really great! But sadly it's way too expensive for me (7200$!!). A combination of a Brauner (I use a Valvet X) and a Schoeps MK8 in M/S can sound very nice imho. It would be very intersting to hear this combo in comparison to the Brauner spaced pair.
Old 27th October 2009
  #18
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzjoe View Post
A combination of a Brauner (I use a Valvet X) and a Schoeps MK8 in M/S can sound very nice imho. It would be very intersting to hear this combo in comparison to the Brauner spaced pair.
I think I did try that at one point, I'll give it another shot.
Old 30th November 2009
  #19
Lives for gear
 
amfortas2006's Avatar
 

I hear something screechy on the left channel of each take (all three samples).

It is just the first 25 seconds of each take. Im listening trough a digigram vxpocket and DT770.
Old 5th May 2010
  #20
Gear Nut
 
billyindonesia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Hi, I posted some Brauner VM1 vs Schoeps tracks back a while when I first was checking out the Brauners, and people suggested that the comparison was flawed due to the different preamps being used. I just did a new comparison where I used two decent signal chains, and ran each of the left/right mics being compared thru the same path. The left side is

Great River MP2-H, Cranesong HEDD, RME AES32 card

right side:

AEA RPQ, Mytel Stereo96, RME AES32 card

So each pair of stereo mics is split between the GR chain and the AEA chain, the left Brauner and left Mic X is thru the GR, the right Brauner and right mic X thru the AEA.

I ran 3 tests, using a pair of Brauners, one VM1 (left) and one VM1 Lite (right) as the reference. The mics are set up as spaced pairs on acoustic guitar, and I set the brauners up first, then placed the other mics as close as I could to the same position. Three separate recordings, but each comparison was recorded simultaneously.

Competing mics were Schoeps CM6/MK41, Neumann KM184, AT2020. Other than attempting to match levels, no processing on any tracks. The brauners are in cardiod mode.

In the following, the Brauner's are always first, then the other mics. (Again, recorded simultaneously, but pasted in as one after the other). These are 16 bit wav files, about 8M each.


Brauner vs Schoeps CMC6/MK41


Brauner vs KM184


Brauner vs AT2020

Any comments or suggestions welcome.
Hi Doug.. thanks a lot for your effort, great work thumbsup
anyways what ac guitar did you use for this comparasion


Regards,
Billy
Old 6th May 2010
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyindonesia View Post
Hi Doug.. thanks a lot for your effort, great work thumbsup
anyways what ac guitar did you use for this comparasion


Regards,
Billy
Really old thread :-) Answered above, a Ryan Mission Grand Concert, Koa and Cedar.
Old 6th May 2010
  #22
Gear Nut
 
billyindonesia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Really old thread :-) Answered above, a Ryan Mission Grand Concert, Koa and Cedar.
yes its old but still Rock stike

thanks for the answer Doug..
anyways i bought AT2020 because this thread, lol..
Old 6th May 2010
  #23
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyindonesia View Post
yes its old but still Rock stike

thanks for the answer Doug..
anyways i bought AT2020 because this thread, lol..
I bought the Brauners :-)

The AT2020 is quite respectable for its price, tho, isn't it?
Old 6th May 2010
  #24
Gear Nut
 
billyindonesia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I bought the Brauners :-)

The AT2020 is quite respectable for its price, tho, isn't it?
hehe honestly, brauner is much much much better than AT2020 heh

unfortunely my pocket is very2 thin, i look inside and nothing there..
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
jrubbernek / Low End Theory
18
denniskersten / Post Production forum
2
Polkbrosmusic / High end
11
Clonkified / Low End Theory
18
jackinthebox / So much gear, so little time
6

Forum Jump
Forum Jump