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Nevaton MC48 vs. AKG C414B-XLS
Old 27th August 2009
  #1
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Nevaton MC48 vs. AKG C414B-XLS

Hello,

do you know the stereo microphone Nevaton MC48?

Look at it here.


I compared it with a pair of AKG C414B-XLS in cardio XY on grand piano at the same placement, 1.55 m height in the piano rim bow. DAV BG1 + Fireface 400.

I much prefer the Nevaton. And you?

EDIT: I did a mistake, the AKG were actually set in omni. I will upload later a new recording with them in cardio.
Attached Files

Nevaton MC48.mp3 (5.78 MB, 5730 views)

Old 27th August 2009
  #2
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Leonid's Avatar
 

If you are in the U.S. you can simply visit FDW Worldwide

Nevaton USA | Hand Crafted Microphones
Old 27th August 2009
  #3
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Here attached the new recording with the AKGs. It's better but I still prefer the Nevaton for its nicer and more natural tone. I apologize for the tempo a bit faster and still less steady here.
Attached Files

AKG C414B-XLS cardio XY.mp3 (5.12 MB, 3209 views)

Old 29th August 2009
  #4
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Two other takes with condensers, a pair of Audio-Technica AT4047s in XY and a pair of Schoeps CMC6-MK21s in small AB. Still prefer the Nevaton. And you?
Attached Files

AT4047 XY.mp3 (5.29 MB, 2661 views)

Schoeps MK21 AB.mp3 (5.57 MB, 2729 views)

Old 29th August 2009
  #5
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Arrow

i never liked the RME sound.
but seems the FF400 has better AD than FF800.

anyway...
the Akg XLS has more mid bass like most neumans, has classic tone/sound, in your face, dry, not roomy.
the Schoeps has also a classic sound but roomy.
if mic placement was the same.
akg xls is narrow cardioid
the shoeps is wide cardioid.
easy to see/measure with pink noise 1 loudspeaker, and rotating the mic 360° in the same axis/place @ 1meter with enough dB SPL.

the Nevaton MC48 sounds transparent.
blows away the AT4047.
at 2:47 the nevaton sounds wrong played or the piano needs more accurate tuning.
anyway most keys are +5cents, one is +24cents. that is: piano tuning + RME SteadyClock(TM) offset.
2:54/55/56 sounds a bit saturated, could be the mic overloading with SPL, or could be the mic.pre, or could be the RME FF400 AD,
even it could be the mp3 encoder.

the Nevaton & Faust .ru mics follow the same transparent design.

cables brands & models?
Old 29th August 2009
  #6
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

The mic cables are 3m long Monster Performer 500. Mic or preamp overloading is unlikely because the SPL is not so high. The mic pre gain is about 30 dB and I applied only minor digital gain, within + or - 2 dB, in Wavelab for balancing the levels of the different takes. The Nevaton sample peaks to about -13 dBFS, 0 dBFS = 13 dBu = 11 dBV on the Fireface line inputs (at sensitivity setting 4 dBu), Nevaton sentivity is 12 mV/Pa, that is - 38 dB re. 1V/Pa so the sound peaks at the mic to about 13 - 13 - 30 + 38 + 94 = 102 dB SPL.
The piano is actually a bit high (A4 closer to 441 Hz than to 440 hz) . The tuning was done 4 months ago, might undoubtedly be improved now.

Quote:
If mic placement was the same
Yes, it was.

Quote:
blows away the AT4047
I always have preferred the AT4047 to the AKG 414 on my piano. Here also...

Quote:
the Nevaton MC48 sounds transparent
I full agree. It sounds right. I like it.

Quote:
it could be the mp3 encoder
My ears are not as accurate as your ones. So judge by yourself:
Attached Files

Nevaton wav sample.wav (5.47 MB, 1632 views)

Old 30th August 2009
  #7
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
I full agree. It sounds right. I like it.
judge by yourself:
i was listening too loud, but still theres an strange resonance there.
the .wav sounds awesome.
verry 3D.
what .mp3 encoder do you use?
Adobe Audition 3 its the best ive heard so far, has the latest frauhofner algorithm.
Old 30th August 2009
  #8
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

I used Lame 3.96. I cann't hear the difference between the mp3 and the wav here.

PS I just performed a null test between the wav and the mp3 of the full recording. The difference RMS level is more than 50 dB lower and it peaks to -55 dBFS.
Old 12th October 2009
  #9
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

I anwer here to a post from here where there is another piano take done with the Nevaton MC48.

Quote:
Bonjour Didier !!!

Thank you for all your samples, very very interesting. I know you from the audioaddict Forum...

I'm a professional classical guitar player and my pleasure is to record myself in my little studio. For now I'm got two KM184 into DAV BG1, Merging Sphynx and Pyramix, I'm happy but I wan't to find a different colour of microphones. I'm very insterested by the Nevaton and the Brauner mics.

So i've been very happy to hear your samples, great sound. What would you say about Nevaton and Brauner on classical guitar ???

Thanks a lot.

Benoît.
Bonjour Benoît,

I do not use to record guitar. I would say that if you want a more impressive sound, you have to go with the Valvets. But the budget is by far higher, still more if you want to record in stereo, about 1000 € for a Nevaton MC48, about 4500 € for two Valvets.

When I had the opportunity to listen to KM184 recordings, I found the sound very good. It was one of my preferred mics in the steel guitar shootout recently made by Mike jaspers for Tape Op, which I was a member of the listening panel of. The Nevaton MC48 will certainly provide another sound, not necessarily better. I would say that the sound of the Nevaton lets the first place to the music, while the sound of the Valvet is more present.
I play my guitar very seldom. The strings are old. I'm not a skill player. So it sounds dull. I don't know whether the attached file will be useful to you. The Valvets are in small AB, plugged on a DAV BG1, with just enough room between them to put the Nevaton, which is plugged on a Fearn VT-2. I also recorded with the same setting a piano take, playing with much hesitation a piece that I'm am currently working on.
When you will have new mics, I woul enjoy a shootout with them and the KM184s.

A bientôt,
Didier
Attached Files

nevaton mc48_guitar.mp3 (1.95 MB, 2176 views)

valvet_guitar.mp3 (1.95 MB, 2146 views)

nevaton mc48_piano.mp3 (1.53 MB, 2241 views)

valvet_piano.mp3 (1.53 MB, 1919 views)

Old 13th October 2009
  #10
Gear Head
 

Bonjour Didier,

Thank you very much, your guitar samples are really interesting. I must say that I like both microphones equally but for different reasons.

Nevaton : I like the stereo image, kind of honesty and simplicty... like you said : "Nevaton lets the first place to the music". Medium and basses seems to be less precise than the Valvet's

Valvet ; very precise, I like the basses but the stereo image is strange. More "in your face". I can hear more self noise on the Nevaton than on the Brauner.

If I buy Brauner, I'll go with the Phantom C, less expensive and more natural. Did you have any experience with the Phantom C ?

Here two samples from me playing in my studio :
- one is classical guitar raw file
- the other is a very old Martin steel strings guitar with eq (Z SYS EQ2) and reverb ( TC M3000)

Both with Neumann KM184 (Din technic) - zaolla cables - Dav Bg1 - Merging Sphynx - Pyramix 6

http://9giga.sfr.fr/n/50-17/share/LNK55244ad458d5863fc/

Tell me what's your feeling about that.

Thanks again.

Benoît.
Old 13th October 2009
  #11
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mr.gefell's Avatar
 

I have been saying this for the last 3 years..these rusian mics are the "Da Bomb" ..affordable and Quality vs cost is favorable---
Old 14th October 2009
  #12
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit ALBERT View Post
Tell me what's your feeling about that.
Bonjour Benoît,

well my feeling is that you play guitar much better than me! Moreover it's really nice music!

I recognize the sound of the KM184, which sounds to me very affirmative, robust, accurate but not harsh at all unlike what I read often here. May be some magic is missing...

I had envisaged for some time to get a pair of Phantom C. Then I decided to get the Valvet because of the silky feature of the highs that high end valve mics have and most solid-state mics don't have.

I like your description of the Nevaton, simple and honest: that's it. I think the noise that you are talking about may be the ambiant one which is picked more by the Nevaton because both caps are steered to outside the source. The self-noise from the Nevaton is low enough, 14 dBA, for not being of concern. if you look at the spetra of the piano take, you will see that the noise floors beyond 8 kHz from both mics are equal. The AB stereo sounds always less natural to me than the XY one. By removing 8 samples to the right channel of the Valvet recording, the time alignment of both channels is better and you might prefer this stereo.
Old 14th October 2009
  #13
Gear Head
 

Didier,

Thank you for the "encouragement", I love playing guitar, it's a very strange instrument, very well known and played around the world but so hard and complex when you want to go deeper....

You are absolutely right with the Km184's, they do the job but I really miss the magic. This is another example, a recording of my guitar duet (with the great Randall AVERS) in the studio (+ reverb and eq). It's more vigorous and rhythmical.
http://9giga.sfr.fr/n/50-17/share/LNK81384ad5b3f3ad92b/

I'm in contact with Funky Junk in France, they import the Brauner's and I would be able to try two Phantom C in the end of October. I think that for classical guitar, the microphone needs a lot of air and must be very transparent, very precise and not having two much low mid.

Do you know the difference between to three Nevaton stereo mics : Mc 404, 47 and 48 ? why did you choose the MC 48 ???

Did you try other Nevaton ? I've in mind that the MC 51 is the most transparent of them ?
Old 15th October 2009
  #14
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Benoît,

I liked your duets but both guitars are not blended enough for my taste. I am listening on headphones at this time. I have one guitar to each ear...

I don't know the other Nevaton models. I choiced the 48 because it was stereo with setting of the angle between both caps. In my room, I must put the mic very close to the piano. Then 90° is too wide.
Old 15th October 2009
  #15
Gear Head
 

Yes, you're right, inspite of the fact I put a TLM 103 between the two KM184, there is a hole in the image in the middle.

Can you explain me how works the MC48 and the variable angle between the two capsules ?

Thanks.

Benoit.
Old 15th October 2009
  #16
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

One cap can be made rotating by means of a mechanical control, while the other is fixed. That's the same principle like in the Neumann SM69, AKG C426 or Manley Reference Gold Stereo, mentioning only the ones that I know (but do not own...).
Old 21st December 2010
  #17
Gear Head
 
v241's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=didier.brest;4515686]Hello,

do you know the stereo microphone Nevaton MC48?




Do you also know the Nevaton MC47, which is also a stereo
microphone 90° max. I tested it against the MC48 and in my
opinion it sounds better. The reason is it has conventional
handbuilt electronics similar to MC51 - the MC48 has
smd electronics.
Old 21st December 2010
  #18
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

There is another important difference, which determined my choice, the setting of the stereo field:

For the MC48 has a variable stereo width from 50° up to a maximum of 140°, while the MC47 one is varying from 0° to 90°. I guess that the narrower stereo field from the MC47 is related to its mono mode where the output of both caps are summed. But the exact reason of this difference between both mics is rather unclear to me.
Old 25th November 2012
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Sorry for digging up an old thread. I wonder if the comparison is fair because the MC48 are phase aligned and all the others are XY. My AT4050ST sounds better than the 4047 XY pair here. I bet because of the physical alignment which is similar to the MC48. I have the old 414EB with the original brass or copper diaphragm rings. I like the sound - but I think the AT4050ST is more accurate (kind of too much spleen in the AKG).
Old 25th November 2012
  #20
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

The AT4047 is much different from the AT4050, which is rather close to the AKG C414 B-XLS tested here as shown by this test.
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