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Six cardio SDC pairs on grand piano
Old 27th January 2014
  #271
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nednerd's Avatar
 

Hi Didier,

just came across this thread and it was a pleasure to listen to your recordings.
Great sounding piano and beautiful playing.
Hard to decide on a favorite.
All of them lack a little bit of body in the upper mids which makes them sound a tad artificial (mic placement?).

#1: Nice ambient sound. Guess I like this one best, although it starts to ring unpleasantly on the louder attacks at 1:19, 1:20.
The other mics also do this more or less though (worst is 5 best is #2 in this respect).
#6: Weird stereo movement of noise tails (Pedal noise?).
#2,6: Higher noise floor than the others.
#2: Frequency vs. phase inconsistency beween the two mics. somehow pleasent though.
Slightly rolled of HF. Overall the most "organic" sound.
Mechanical noises most audible on #5 (I hear the stool in the beginning)
#3: Unnatural frequency vs. amplitude response.

Did you use any compression or limiting, what was the preamp/converter chain (sorry if I missed this)?
I listened to the WAVs.

It would be great, if you could send me the key.
Thanks!
Old 27th January 2014
  #272
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Hi,

The preamp was a Fearn VT-2 and the converter a Fireface 400. No compression, nor limiting. There were 6 takes, one per track. Hence some noise occurring on one track may not be present on another one. The placement of the microphones is shown here.
Old 27th January 2014
  #273
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nednerd's Avatar
 

Thanks for the key!
#3 pretty much caught me by surprise

Taking into account the additional information on your recording chain, mic placement and especially considering the preamp you used, I dare to speculate that the slight general lack in the upper mids mentioned can be attributed to your East-German A/D converter (no offense).

Going to have to listen to #3 again now...
Old 28th January 2014
  #274
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nednerd's Avatar
 

Ok.
After listening to #3 and #1 again on different speakers, in a different room and now knowing what mics they are,
I still like #1 better.
I stand surprised.
Old 31st March 2014
  #275
Here for the gear
 

Thank you so much for creating this shootout and for responding to the thread after all these years.

I found #3 the most balanced between, providing detail to the highs and the lows without over-emphasizing any particular frequency range. #4 was nicely balanced too, but a bit stronger in the mids perhaps. I like both of them. The others were a bit too beefy or muddy in the mids and mid-lows for my taste.

Can you please send the key? This will be invaluable in my research to find a piano mic.

Edit: Thanks for sending the key!

Last edited by s.garzia; 31st March 2014 at 08:51 PM.. Reason: updated info
Old 15th April 2014
  #276
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Could you send me the key as well? Thanks so much!
Old 25th April 2014
  #277
Here for the gear
 

I found #3 to have the nicest balance & good imaging.
#4 was a close 2nd
Next #1 and #5 were very close
#6 is next; not as clean on loud passage
#2 was the worst, dull top, all midrange.
Listened to only once, from MP3s...please send the key, thanks
Old 9th May 2014
  #278
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Update of my tests on Gearslutz:
Comparison of 6 cardio SDCs | Comparison of 3 omni SDCs | Brauner Valvet vs. Neumann M149 | Rode K2 - FLEA 49 - Brauner Valvet Oktava MK012 vs. Schoeps CMC6-MK21 & RME Fireface 400 vs. Steinberg MR816X | FLEA 49 - FLEA 50 - Brauner Valvet | Brauner Valvet vs. Manley Gold | DAV Electronics BG1 vs. Steinberg MR816X | Vovox vs. Cheap cable | Nevaton MC48 - AKG C414B-XLS - Audio-Technica AT4047 - Schoeps CMC6-MK21 | Audio-Technica AT 4047 and 4050 - AKG C414 Ltd | Schoeps MK21 vs Rode NT5 cardio | Superlux S502, Oktava MK-012, DPA 4021 | DPA4060 vs. DPA 4021 (inside the piano) | Neumann M149 vs. FLEA 49 and Manley Gold Reference | Line Audio Design CM3 vs. Schoeps MK 21 | Line Audio Design CM3, Josephson C42 , Schoeps MK 21 | Fireface 400, DAV BG1, Fearn VT-2 (Schoeps MK 21) Fireface 400, Fearn VT-2, DAV BG1 (Beyer M 130, Beyer M 160) | Fireface 400, DAV BG1, Fearn VT-2 (Beyer M130) | AKG C300B + Fearn VT-2 vs. Brauner Valvet + Fireface 400 | Rode NT5 - Oktava MK-012 - Line Audio CM3 - Schoeps MK 21 | Audio-Technica AT4041 - Oktava MK-012 - Line Audio CM3 - Schoeps MK21 | Sontronics Apollo - Schoeps MK21 - Beyerdynamic M 130 | Neumann M149 - Manley Reference Gold - Rode Classic II | Manley Reference Gold vs Rode Classic II DPA 4041 vs. Neumann KM 133 D Neumann KM 133 D vs. FLEA 50 Preamps: DAV -_Line Audio - RME - Little labs et al. Avenson STO-2 - DPA 4060 - Schoeps MK 21 Line Audio CM3 - Josephson C42 - Schoeps CMC 621 - DPA 4021 Manley Reference Gold in living room vs. famous DG recording in good hall Neumann KM 143 D vs Schoeps CMC6-MK21 Neumann KM 184, KM 143, KM 133 Neumann KM 184 - Beyerdynamic M 160 - sE Electronics sE X1R Rode NT5 + NT45-0 - Oktava MK012-omni - Neumann KM 133 Avenson STO-2 vs Line Audio Design CM3 Behringer B-5 vs. Neumann KM 133 | Prodipe RSL vs. sE Electronics X1R| Sontronics Apollo, Prodipe RSL, Beyerdynamic M 130
Old 21st May 2014
  #279
Gear Head
 

Well done! My favorites before reading the thread were 5,3,4 (in this order). After reading the thread, 3 moved to the first place But yet 5 is next.
Please send me the key.
Old 21st May 2014
  #280
Gear Head
 

Well done! My favorites before reading the thread were 5,3,4 (in this order). After reading the thread, 3 moved to the first place But yet 5 is next.
Please send me the key.
Old 6th June 2014
  #281
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BearOnGuitar's Avatar
 

Liked 3 and 1 best. Please send me the results.
Old 12th August 2014
  #282
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liked #4
please send me the key
Old 15th August 2014
  #283
Gear Head
 

I realize this is an old thread, but I'd love to see the key if it is still available. And thanks didier.brest for sharing so many piano shootouts with us!
Old 16th August 2014
  #284
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by j.m.lad View Post
I realize this is an old thread
Yes but it is still alive !

My tests on Gearslutz:
Comparison of 6 cardio SDCs | Comparison of 3 omni SDCs | Brauner Valvet vs. Neumann M149 | Rode K2 - FLEA 49 - Brauner Valvet Oktava MK012 vs. Schoeps CMC6-MK21 & RME Fireface 400 vs. Steinberg MR816X | FLEA 49 - FLEA 50 - Brauner Valvet | Brauner Valvet vs. Manley Gold | DAV Electronics BG1 vs. Steinberg MR816X | Vovox vs. Cheap cable | Nevaton MC48 - AKG C414B-XLS - Audio-Technica AT4047 - Schoeps CMC6-MK21 | Audio-Technica AT 4047 and 4050 - AKG C414 Ltd | Schoeps MK21 vs Rode NT5 cardio | Superlux S502, Oktava MK-012, DPA 4021 | DPA4060 vs. DPA 4021 (inside the piano) | Neumann M149 vs. FLEA 49 and Manley Gold Reference | Line Audio Design CM3 vs. Schoeps MK 21 | Line Audio Design CM3, Josephson C42 , Schoeps MK 21 | Fireface 400, DAV BG1, Fearn VT-2 (Schoeps MK 21) Fireface 400, Fearn VT-2, DAV BG1 (Beyer M 130, Beyer M 160) | Fireface 400, DAV BG1, Fearn VT-2 (Beyer M130) | AKG C300B + Fearn VT-2 vs. Brauner Valvet + Fireface 400 | Rode NT5 - Oktava MK-012 - Line Audio CM3 - Schoeps MK 21 | Audio-Technica AT4041 - Oktava MK-012 - Line Audio CM3 - Schoeps MK21 | Sontronics Apollo - Schoeps MK21 - Beyerdynamic M 130 | Neumann M149 - Manley Reference Gold - Rode Classic II | Manley Reference Gold vs Rode Classic II DPA 4041 vs. Neumann KM 133 D Neumann KM 133 D vs. FLEA 50 Preamps: DAV -_Line Audio - RME - Little labs et al. Avenson STO-2 - DPA 4060 - Schoeps MK 21 Line Audio CM3 - Josephson C42 - Schoeps CMC 621 - DPA 4021 Manley Reference Gold in living room vs. famous DG recording in good hall Neumann KM 143 D vs Schoeps CMC6-MK21 Neumann KM 184, KM 143, KM 133 Neumann KM 184 - Beyerdynamic M 160 - sE Electronics sE X1R Rode NT5 + NT45-0 - Oktava MK012-omni - Neumann KM 133 Avenson STO-2 vs Line Audio Design CM3 Behringer B-5 vs. Neumann KM 133 | Prodipe RSL vs. sE Electronics X1R| Sontronics Apollo, Prodipe RSL, Beyerdynamic M 130 Behringer B-5 vs. Neumann KM 184 Rode NT5 - Behringer B-5 - Line Audio CM3 - Neumann KM184 Neumann D-01 vs. Neumann M 149
Old 17th August 2014
  #285
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woda's Avatar
 

Shot in the dark 5,1 on cans and 4,6 on speakers, can you send me a key?
Old 15th October 2014
  #286
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Can you MP me with answers? Thanks!
Old 16th October 2014
  #287
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FunkFaker's Avatar
 

I liked 2 and 4 a lot.

Could you pm me the key?

Cheers!
Old 5th December 2014
  #288
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Hi Didier,

Great shootout, can you please PM me the results.

Thanks!
Old 4th January 2015
  #289
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Vesta's Avatar
 

Key please. I'm dying to find what's behind number 3.
Old 4th January 2015
  #290
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Vesta's Avatar
 

Thank you so much for the keys!

By the way, is the numbering like I have in the attached image. It's kinda confusing the way it appears on the thread.
Attached Thumbnails
Six cardio SDC pairs on grand piano-sdc-comp.jpg  
Old 4th January 2015
  #291
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

No, the numbering is the one of the names of the files: 1 is 1.mp3, 2 is 2.mp3, 3 is 3.mp3, 4 is 4.mp3, 5 is 5.mp3 and 6 is 6.mp3.
Old 4th January 2015
  #292
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Vesta's Avatar
 

Thanks, didier! And sorry for the dumb question. Somehow I got confused.
Old 30th January 2015
  #293
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I prefer 3 as well. Can you PM the key, please?
Old 24th February 2015
  #294
Here for the gear
First thank you Didier!

I used the following test method: I listened if i can hear any distortion at the louder passages, after that i searched for noise floor, which is present in 6.
It was also interesting that number 5 had a different caracter, and i can hear the notes with very good directivity. So i guess number 5 is the schoeps with the wide cardioid pattern.

1., 3. and 5. was the best to me.

PM me the key! Thanks again!
Old 26th February 2015
  #295
Gear Head
Please, send me the key...
I wonder how good were the Oktavas. Because of those babies are waiting for me at our post office.

If you can, send me also the key for omnis...

Thank you
Old 27th February 2015
  #296
Gear Head
I am a pianist...

HD439, integrated sound card, wav files.

1 and 6 are similar: distorted, unclear, strange glowing sound, the piano sounds like a toy.
5 is bright and sharp. Not my cup of tea. It's not a mic for classical music. But it is a very good mic, sings pretty well.
4 is round and nice. Takes wood from the piano. The best singing sound.
2 takes the steel from the piano, not the wood. Very good bass, musical but for my taste not the sound from piano I want. It's like jazz style mic.
3 very good but the sound of the piano doesn't sing. It is just flat taaaa taaaaa taaaaaa...

From the best to the worst:
4
2
5
3
6
1

But it is very hard to choose. Especially when I know that every mic is different and has a slightly different diaphragm.

I got the keys and I looked right now. I am happy. A matched pair of black Oktava 012 is waiting for me at the local post office.
Old 28th February 2015
  #297
Gear Head
Well. I was so interrested in a overall rating. So I made a chart of penalty points. If somebody wrote a list from the best to the worst then the best got 0 and the worst 5. If somebody wrote just "I prefer no. X" then no. X got 0 and others got 1.
Here are the results of the penalty points:
1: 126
2: 123
3: 62
4: 140
5: 146
6: 179

I have counted votes from 101 people so I think this is VERY objective.
Old 17th March 2015
  #298
Here for the gear
 

Hello

My choice : 2, 3, and 4, no order...

6 is very noisy, bet it's the Josephson ^^

Will you send me the Key please Didier ?
Old 25th March 2015
  #299
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omegaomega's Avatar
 

I liked #3 ,#6 ,#5 .

I really disliked #2 , had a tin foil quality to it, sounds small and cheap.
My guess is this is the C02?

Also didn't like so much #4 .
Is that the Rode?

All others sounded very nice, but more 3D and "expensive" sounding to my ears were #3 ,#6 ,#5 , in that order.

Can I have the key please?

Thank you for this test!
Old 27th March 2015
  #300
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

My tests on Gearslutz:
Comparison of 6 cardio SDCs | Comparison of 3 omni SDCs | Brauner Valvet vs. Neumann M149 | Rode K2 - FLEA 49 - Brauner Valvet Oktava MK012 vs. Schoeps CMC6-MK21 & RME Fireface 400 vs. Steinberg MR816X | FLEA 49 - FLEA 50 - Brauner Valvet | Brauner Valvet vs. Manley Gold | DAV Electronics BG1 vs. Steinberg MR816X | Vovox vs. Cheap cable | Nevaton MC48 - AKG C414B-XLS - Audio-Technica AT4047 - Schoeps CMC6-MK21 | Audio-Technica AT 4047 and 4050 - AKG C414 Ltd | Schoeps MK21 vs Rode NT5 cardio | Superlux S502, Oktava MK-012, DPA 4021 | DPA4060 vs. DPA 4021 (inside the piano) | Neumann M149 vs. FLEA 49 and Manley Gold Reference | Line Audio Design CM3 vs. Schoeps MK 21 | Line Audio Design CM3, Josephson C42 , Schoeps MK 21 | Fireface 400, DAV BG1, Fearn VT-2 (Schoeps MK 21) Fireface 400, Fearn VT-2, DAV BG1 (Beyer M 130, Beyer M 160) | Fireface 400, DAV BG1, Fearn VT-2 (Beyer M130) | AKG C300B + Fearn VT-2 vs. Brauner Valvet + Fireface 400 | Rode NT5 - Oktava MK-012 - Line Audio CM3 - Schoeps MK 21 | Audio-Technica AT4041 - Oktava MK-012 - Line Audio CM3 - Schoeps MK21 | Sontronics Apollo - Schoeps MK21 - Beyerdynamic M 130 | Neumann M149 - Manley Reference Gold - Rode Classic II | Manley Reference Gold vs Rode Classic II DPA 4041 vs. Neumann KM 133 D Neumann KM 133 D vs. FLEA 50 Preamps: DAV -_Line Audio - RME - Little labs et al. Avenson STO-2 - DPA 4060 - Schoeps MK 21 Line Audio CM3 - Josephson C42 - Schoeps CMC 621 - DPA 4021 Manley Reference Gold in living room vs. famous DG recording in good hall Neumann KM 143 D vs Schoeps CMC6-MK21 Neumann KM 184, KM 143, KM 133 Neumann KM 184 - Beyerdynamic M 160 - sE Electronics sE X1R Rode NT5 + NT45-0 - Oktava MK012-omni - Neumann KM 133 Avenson STO-2 vs Line Audio Design CM3 Behringer B-5 vs. Neumann KM 133 | Prodipe RSL vs. sE Electronics X1R| Sontronics Apollo, Prodipe RSL, Beyerdynamic M 130 Behringer B-5 vs. Neumann KM 184 Rode NT5 - Behringer B-5 - Line Audio CM3 - Neumann KM184 Neumann D-01 vs. Neumann M 149 Flea 49, AKG C414 B-XLS, Sontronics Apollo, Audio-Technica AT4047, Neumann M 149 Beyer M 130 vs. M 160 Behringer ADA8200 vs. Lake people F355 (1) Behringer ADA8200 vs. Lake people F355 (2)

Last edited by didier.brest; 11th August 2015 at 10:59 AM..
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