The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Rode K2 - FLEA 49 - Brauner Valvet on piano
Old 16th May 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Rode K2 - FLEA 49 - Brauner Valvet on piano



Edit: February 2012
I removed the esnips and megaupload links that dis not not work any longer. New download link for raw takes:

take 1

take 2
take 3

Another comparison between the vintage sound from FLEA and the modern sound from Brauner: FLEA 49 - FLEA 50 - Brauner Valvet.
Old 17th May 2009
  #2
Gear Head
 

So how does the Rode compare in your opinion?
Old 17th May 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

I think that the above recordings are well informative about how these mics perform. Did you listen to them? What is your preference order?

In my opinion the Rode has an amazing quality with respect to its price. But it's not in the same sound league like the Valvet and the FLEA.
Old 17th May 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
I think that the above recordings are well informative about how these mics perform. Did you listen to them? What is your preference order?

In my opinion the Rode has an amazing quality with respect to its price. But it's not in the same sound league like the Valvet and the FLEA.
Here on my HD650 headphones I preferred 1 [very full and warm, maybe even too much so] followed by 3 [which may be the most realistic].
I reckon 2 is K2 which sounded a bit blurred and hollow in comparison through my ears
Old 18th May 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
I think that the above recordings are well informative about how these mics perform. Did you listen to them? What is your preference order?

In my opinion the Rode has an amazing quality with respect to its price. But it's not in the same sound league like the Valvet and the FLEA.
too much room = too far for my taste.
but...
K2 sounds more transparent,
the valve has more coloration,
the F49 also has a classic coloration.

the valve has great lows,
the K2 has great highs,
i would use a verry careful mic placement of both mics.
i would mic, the valve in the left front to right side or back to front of the piano, and the K2 in the right to left side of the piano.
hear, and then swap sides and record again the K2 for lows and valve for highs,
and listen whats better, giving the lows more lows, or giving the highs more lows,... giving the highs more highs, or giving the lows more highs.

depends if you want to sound classic or new.
Old 18th May 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Here on my HD650 headphones I preferred 1 [very full and warm, maybe even too much so] followed by 3 [which may be the most realistic].
I reckon 2 is K2 which sounded a bit blurred and hollow in comparison through my ears
Did you listen at different times of the piece or only to the initial chords?
Some other interesting passages are the pp starting at about 1'20'', the ff starting at about 3'40". And you can confirm your preference by listening to the repetition of the initial theme starting at about 4'40.
Old 18th May 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Did you listen at different times of the piece or only to the initial chords?
Some other interesting passages are the pp starting at about 1'20'', the ff starting at about 3'40". And you can confirm your preference by listening to the repetition of the initial theme starting at about 4'40.
Ha - I guess I guessed wrong; I may have more time to listen one of the coming days and through my speakers

Didn't see the names anywhere but outer Space 2012 seem to know which was which
::
Mads
Old 18th May 2009
  #8
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by space2012 View Post
too much room = too far for my taste.
but...
K2 sounds more transparent,
the valve has more coloration,
the F49 also has a classic coloration.
I added a bit of reverb.
Which one is the K2, which one is the Valvet?
Old 18th May 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 

I probably liked 2 the least - wouldn't have clue as far as what mic is what.
Old 19th May 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

The same recordings without reverb

Edit Feebruary 2012: esnips and megaupload download links removed because they did not work any longer.
Old 19th May 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken View Post
I probably liked 2 the least - wouldn't have clue as far as what mic is what.
Which one do you prefer?
Old 19th May 2009
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
now they sound much better.
Old 19th May 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Newcleardaze's Avatar
 

Thanks for this Didier... I liked #3 best... (listening to the dry versions) it seemed to have the best "in the room with the piano" quality to it. I'll check back later to see which is which.
Old 19th May 2009
  #14
Gear Nut
 

I think #1 is the K2.

I liked #3 the best, my guess is it's the Valvet.
Old 19th May 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabriel_au View Post
I think #1 is the K2.

I liked #3 the best, my guess is it's the Valvet.
This would mean that Flea 49 is #2, I can't believe this could be the case.

hmm

Just listened again through my Lyngdorf and 8050A, but my general conclusion are more or less the same as they were with my HD650.

#1 Fat, but clear. Would love to hear it in a bigger room with good acoustics at a little more distance. Which would probably make it a little less "fat" sounding and cope better with the forte part of the piece.

#2 Somethings wrong with this, if the piano sounds like this I don't like the piano, but I would think it's the microphone.

#3 Somewhere in between #1 and #2, but sweeter sound.

Since I don't know the piano it isn't easy to judge, but based on this I would pick #1.

Judged on the price I reckon that #2 is the K2.
But judged on Didiers remark I may be wrong []
::
Mads
Old 20th May 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

I send PMs to the people who expressed their preferences.

I EQed the three recordings by means of the same filters. If you want to check how they sound without EQ:

Edit February 2012: links updated and put in the first post.
Old 20th May 2009
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest View Post
Which one do you prefer?

In some parts i like 1 the best in others 3. I would be very happy to own either of those mics.

A recording using 1 and 3 as a pair would be interesting
Old 20th May 2009
  #18
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Listened to the new rough files, which I by the way, liked better than the EQed.

I still feel the same overall. To my ears it sounds as if there are some peaks in the freq curve of #2 that's annoying. Could partly be a question of placement.

#1 has obviously more lo-freq info than the others, and can maybe be called a bit to "full" or "fat", but again since I haven't heard the instrument it's difficult to judge. Anyhow I like it, especially in soft passages. It's also the most spacious.

#3 arguably handles louder passages better than #1

::
Mads
Old 20th May 2009
  #19
Here for the gear
 

I put in what looks like the only vote for no.2 as best, most accurate and balanced. I'd say that's the best tube sound in that doesn't over-color but yet enhances the actual sound of the piano. It looks like this may be an unpopular preference though!

So...
My guess is no. 1 is K2, too tubby in my opinion, though not bad.
No. 3 is great, and very similar to the 2nd - very accurate, I'm guessing Valvet.
But No. 2 remains my favorite for balancing tonal accuracy with warmth, and I'm betting it's the Flea.
Old 21st May 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebear13 View Post
I'd say that's the best tube sound in that doesn't over-color but yet enhances the actual sound of the piano.
Bear13 - just curious - how do you know what the actual sound of this piano is.. are you familiar with it?

[..as said before if the piano actually sounds like #2, I don't like this instruments sound.]
Old 21st May 2009
  #21
Here for the gear
 

Well I've never heard Didier's piano personally, but I have heard many of his mic shootouts. More to the point, I'm a pianist, and have spent my entire life with the instruments, and perhaps I'm wrong, but I feel that I can to some extent understand what is the piano and what is contributed by the mic.
I should say that I am most interested in recording classical piano, and for this I think the Fleas really excell, and the Valvets also do an admiral job. The Rhode gives a sound I think is less satasfying in this genre. I think the actual sound of the piano kind of cancels out in a comparison like this, as it's the differences in tonal balance and how transients are handeled that is interesting.
It's one of the things that makes finding a mic for a piano difficult, that some lose the clarity of the hammer strike, and some accentuate it so much that this becomes dominant over harmonic content. Didier's piano has a very soft, sweet sound, which might appeal or might not, but in any case I think gives plenty of information to judge the mics. In any case, perhaps if there is interest for it, I can post another example of the Fleas on a Steinway for comparison.
Of course it does all come down to personal preference!
Old 22nd May 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Well i went out and purchased a new mic after this - let me say i'm very happy with it.

Great value thumbsup
Old 22nd May 2009
  #23
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebear13 View Post
Well I've never heard Didier's piano personally, but I have heard many of his mic shootouts. More to the point, I'm a pianist, and have spent my entire life with the instruments, and perhaps I'm wrong, but I feel that I can to some extent understand what is the piano and what is contributed by the mic.
I should say that I am most interested in recording classical piano, and for this I think the Fleas really excell, and the Valvets also do an admiral job. The Rhode gives a sound I think is less satasfying in this genre. I think the actual sound of the piano kind of cancels out in a comparison like this, as it's the differences in tonal balance and how transients are handeled that is interesting.
It's one of the things that makes finding a mic for a piano difficult, that some lose the clarity of the hammer strike, and some accentuate it so much that this becomes dominant over harmonic content. Didier's piano has a very soft, sweet sound, which might appeal or might not, but in any case I think gives plenty of information to judge the mics. In any case, perhaps if there is interest for it, I can post another example of the Fleas on a Steinway for comparison.
Of course it does all come down to personal preference!
Thanks for explaining...!
And yes please - another Flea example would be most welcome.
Old 23rd May 2009
  #24
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
1. I liked #3 the best, it's expressive

2. Liked #1 next best; more cohesive, self-glued and no irritating transients. It's what I'd expect to hear on National Public Radio.

3. Not a big fan of #2. It's somewhat less dimensioned. Though the later part of the recording I think #2 holds its own quite well, but not at the beginning.

I'm fairly convinced the K2 is #2, because I own a K2 and it's not a pearly sound like the other two. However the K2 in -cardioid mode- is very upper-midrange jagged/blunt, and I'd probably have tried it in omni (smooth), or if too much room is coming through, figure 8 (deep).


Thanks for making the recording didier.brest

-update-
I just got the PM, and I'm not tellin' heh
Old 23rd May 2009
  #25
Here for the gear
 

I don't want to take Didier's thread off track, as I think his recordings give plenty of information to judge these mics, but I'm happy to share another recording made with the Fleas - perhaps it will help to guess which is which in the shootout? For the sake of the comparison, keep in mind that the Fleas were used in omni mode for these recordings, while Didier I think used cardiord for all of his.

These files are of my girlfiend playing Ravel's Gaspard de la nuit, and were recorded using the Flea M49s and apogee mini-me. I'm not sure which preamp Didier used, but it was surely better! These were just test takes by the way, we're re-recording the tracks. Be warned, they are heavy files.

This is the first time I've used megaupload, so let me know if the links don't work!

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
Raw ondine take.aif

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
Raw Gibet take.aif

And just for fun, the same ondine run though the Bricasti M7, thanks to one of the other members of these forums (again, not the final settings that will be used).

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
Ondine FleaM49 +BricastiM7.wav

Old 23rd May 2009
  #26
Gear Addict
 

I only listened to the samples in the first post.
#1 was the best, very warm but I like it that way.
#3 wasn't necessarily worse, but more aggressive.
#2 was somehow harsh, not great for this source.
Old 23rd May 2009
  #27
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken View Post
Well i went out and purchased a new mic after this - let me say i'm very happy with it.

Great value thumbsup
What did you end up buying? PM me, I'm just curious!

And a shout to Didier, what did you use for preamps?
Old 23rd May 2009
  #28
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

The preamp is a Fearn VT-2, the ADC is a RME Fireface 400.
Old 24th May 2009
  #29
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 

Quote:
I don't want to take Didier's thread off track
You're welcome. These FLEAs are a nice complement to your Steinway and the playing is superb. I'm impressed also by the Bricasti.
Old 25th May 2009
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Yes, that Bricasti is nice! I'd like to play with one someday... In the meantime, I'm stuck with variverb - here is our Scarbo, to complete the series, my own EQ and reverb added.

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
Scarbo
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump