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WAVs Posted: A/Ds- Apogee vs Lavry vs ... Mackie???
Old 29th June 2005
  #31
Gear Nut
 

One thing that's really obvious is that No.1 has much less bass than 2 and 3!
Old 29th June 2005
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
The funniest thing is that I can't easily hear the worst one that is expectedly Mackie, compared to other two higher caliber converters.
So. either Mackie likes your type of music or something is wrong with my ears today.
But, if Mackie wins something is probably wrong with your test.
Nr. 2 sounds better relative to 1 and 3. Maybe other two are just more realistic.

GYang
errrrr..... So if the Mackie wins the test is wrong?? We need to test and test until the Mackie losses then? I don't think that is what you are trying to say but that is how it is coming out and if that is what you mean then sorry I disagree.

This is a test and a reasonable one for what it is worth. There is something wrong with all testing to some degree but this test is valid as far as I can tell and if the Mackie is the one that most people like... I got news for ya, the Mackie would win.
Old 29th June 2005
  #33
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Albert's Avatar
 

On this test I liked number 2 the best. It seemed to have a little more low end balls and greater forward to back depth to it. Also, the biggest difference I could hear was that there seemed to be more space or air around the vocals in number 2 as compared to the others. The vocals felt like they had their own space in the middle and the left and right didn't crowd them. On number 3, I felt that the left and right sides kind of bled into the middle and the vocals didn't have quite the separation of number 2. Mix one just seemed kind of flat to me.

However, once again the differences weren't night and day, but were more along the lines of being subtle.

What would interest me a lot is listening to examples of the Apogee and Lavry converters clocking internally.
Old 29th June 2005
  #34
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Sui_City's Avatar
 

Bang,

Please put me out of my misery!

or into it depending on one's point of view
Old 29th June 2005
  #35
Lives for gear
i thought #2 was slightly 'clearer', #3 was 'thicker' and #1 was less defined to me.
liked #2 most, #1 least.

of course #2 will probably be the f%^!! mackie...

G4 laptop > carver amp> NS10s in my house. i'm not in the studio.
Old 29th June 2005
  #36
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matucha's Avatar
Quote:
of course #2 will probably be the f%^!! mackie...
...this is starting to be a bit irracional, don't you think?


Am I the only one, who's reading the same thing over and over again in this thread? I don't think there's gonna be any new view on the files so it's a time to see the names behind the filessss.....
Old 29th June 2005
  #37
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
The funniest thing is that I can't easily hear the worst one that is expectedly Mackie, compared to other two higher caliber converters.
So. either Mackie likes your type of music or something is wrong with my ears today.
But, if Mackie wins something is probably wrong with your test.
GYang
?

Please clarify.

Since you can't tell an 'obvious' difference between Mackie, Lavry and Apogee then the testing is flawed?

Why should anyone be able to tell?

We can only use our ears to determine what we like or percieve as best, which is what we should be doing all of the time anyway. We as a whole disregard, embrace or judge to quickly based on brand name.


P&B,
Old 29th June 2005
  #38
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha
...this is starting to be a bit irracional, don't you think?
no... i wouldn't be surprised if i were wrong (#1 being my pick for the worst), just like i picked the ITB mix over the dangerous 2 bus the other day in one of these threads - and i may be buying an AWS 900 - am i being irrational? we use our ears, and make decisions accordingly. that's all.

this is a fun test, being listened to on MP3s.... what's the big deal?
Old 29th June 2005
  #39
Gear Maniac
 

I listened to the Wavs before I read the posts. I liked 1 the best for the song. Did not care for 2 or 3. The vocals sounded more in your face. The whole mix was thicker and punchier. I don't care if I picked the mackies maybe I should go get some. Whatever gets the job done. Peace
Old 29th June 2005
  #40
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raal
no... i wouldn't be surprised if i were wrong (#1 being my pick for the worst), just like i picked the ITB mix over the dangerous 2 bus the other day in one of these threads - and i'm buying an AWS 900 - am i being irracional? we use our ears, and make decisions accordingly. that's all.

this is a fun test, being listened to on MP3s.... what's the big deal?
I think he's only saying that the consensus isn't changing and there are more than enough replies to establish a consistent 'popular' opinion.

So the envelope please....
Old 29th June 2005
  #41
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matucha's Avatar
raal: no big deal for sure... it is not a mp3, it's a wav (though 16bit)

if you hear mackie and you like it more than apogee, would you buy apogee only because it is more convinient and potencialy "safe"? If you like more the sound of the ITB mix, why are you buying SSL?

I also joked about it... but isn't there a cheep factor in it somewhere?
Old 29th June 2005
  #42
Lives for gear
 

ok to clarify one thing, these bad boys are uncompressed wav files.

Ok...

1. Lavry Blue

2. Apogee Rosetta 200

3. Mackie Onyx

all clocked to the 777 (Big Ben) clock of an Apogee DA 16X via BNC cable.

I thought the Apogee sounded most like the mix off the console. The Lavry was second with a tiny bit less OOOMPH at 60-80Hz. The Mackie was third just because it seemed to ADD a bit of 250Hz... granted it made it sound a bit "fatter" but it wasn't in the original mix. The top end was pretty clear on it though, all around good converter if you already have a Big Ben Clock lying around. The Mackie impressed me so much that I'm trying out one their new onyx consoles for my band's rehearsal mix. Also, another use of A/D is slamming it during mastering and all three would probably perform differently at that task as well, it all depends on the headroom of the analog section. I can tell you, the Lavry's analog and digital saturation are the worth the price alone during mastering time, I like the digital saturation so much (it adds about 6db of gain and a "warmness" to the transient), that I'm trying to convince Dan Lavry to make a VST/TDM plugin of it. I swear it'll be the hottest plugin available.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com
Old 29th June 2005
  #43
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha
raal: if you hear mackie and you like it more than apogee, would you buy apogee only because it is more convinient and potencialy "safe"?
no, i'd buy the mackie - if i heard it in a real situation (my studio for example), and preferred it over the apogees.

Quote:
If you like more the sound of the ITB mix, why are you buying SSL?
never said i preferred ITB mixes. only that i picked the ITB over a 2Bus mix in one of these threads - have no idea how the stuff got to the MP3s i heard on my laptop -- when i demoed the SSL (with my material, through my speakers, in a controlled situation), the difference between ITB and through the SSL with the same material was appalling. thats why i'm thinking of the SSL.

i love these A/B threads though - they're fun!... and i'm always wrong.
Old 29th June 2005
  #44
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sleepwalker's Avatar
 

I didn't notice much of a difference at all between the 3 using blue sky monitors. My environment has some humming fans, but I certainly wouldn't worry about using any of these at the expense of the others.
Old 29th June 2005
  #45
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matucha's Avatar
raal: clarified ;-)

this is real surprise, I like my favourite (lavry) the least ;-) (in this test at least)... funny is everytime in my situation Lavry was a bit softer, crispier and extended over the others. I don't hear it here.
Old 29th June 2005
  #46
Gear Maniac
 

Just great. I Picked #1 as my favorite. I was hoping #1 were the mackies. Maybe Dan will give me a special deal since I picked his converters.
Old 30th June 2005
  #47
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Seems this man is a sophisticated listener.

Ruphus

PS: Bang, he won your prize of two weeks on a Carebbean island. heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stixxs
And then envelope please...

1) Lavry

2) Apogee

3) Mackie

...I think.

-Stixxs
Old 30th June 2005
  #48
Gear Maniac
 
Stixxs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stixxs
And then envelope please...

1) Lavry

2) Apogee

3) Mackie

...I think.

-Stixxs
Man I hate to be right...but I already own the Onyx, kinda like cheating.

...What I don't have is that 16ch. firewire card, I assume were talking the same beast?

I've been telling folks, 'This ain't you daddy's Mackie" now the converters too?

-Stixxs
Old 30th June 2005
  #49
Gear Maniac
 
Stixxs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruphus
Seems this man is a sophisticated listener.

Ruphus

PS: Bang, he won your prize of two weeks on a Carebbean island. heh
A copy of Blacklines new one would do. heh

-Stixxs
Old 30th June 2005
  #50
Lives for gear
 

WOW the bottom end of #2 really shines through - the other two??I wouldn't care either way. But I'm with you on the Mackie - it certainly doesn't bother a good song whatsoever.

But what the hell does good reason have anything to do with being a slutz heh
Old 30th June 2005
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stixxs
A copy of Blacklines new one would do. heh

-Stixxs
Thats a deal. We'll sign it too just in case someone gets smart and gives us a record deal, that way it'll actually be worth something other then being a great coaster.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com
Old 30th June 2005
  #52
Gear Maniac
 
Stixxs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang
Thats a deal. We'll sign it too just in case someone gets smart and gives us a record deal, that way it'll actually be worth something other then being a great coaster.

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com
Steve,

Serious about the CD?... I've dug listening to your stuff from day one. thumbsup

Anyway, I thought the Onyx has better sounding pres/EQ's than the old 1642VLZ Pro by a long shot...with the Firewire option and studio talkback, couldn't pass it up, with my budget.

That said, I'm thinking about ordering the Portico this week, to get an idea what I'm really missing.

...but for those who'd like to here an Onyx ITB, here goes.

-Stixxs
Attached Files

YOUR MONEY clip 6-8.mp3 (941.1 KB, 294 views)

Old 30th June 2005
  #53
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kevinc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats
But what the hell does good reason have anything to do with being a slutz heh
heh exactly !

The only thing I noticed about the 2 I thought could have been the Mackie was a subtle harshness or fizziness in the upper mids that I usually attribute to digital recording in general. Number 2 seemed to lack that edge and"smooth" things out a bit. Made things seem a bit rounder and more analog like. Easier to listen to.

1 and 2 really sounded very close to me.

I`m off to buy an Onyx !
Old 30th June 2005
  #54
Lives for gear
 

The pres on that Onyx are also pretty damn nice. You can't diss Mackie any more, they're the real deal with this Onyx stuff. There is always Behringer.. oh wait, I used a Behringer B-2 for the vocals on WHY... Well there is always Samson. Ahhhh, Samson.

Stixx thanks for the kind words.. is that in the box or mixed to the Onyx??

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com
Old 30th June 2005
  #55
Gear Maniac
 
Stixxs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang
The pres on that Onyx are also pretty damn nice. You can't diss Mackie any more, they're the real deal with this Onyx stuff. There is always Behringer.. oh wait, I used a Behringer B-2 for the vocals on WHY... Well there is always Samson. Ahhhh, Samson.

Stixx thanks for the kind words.. is that in the box or mixed to the Onyx??

Steve
www.bangrecording.com
www.blacklinerock.com
Yeah, stricktly ITB...Onyx1620 > Delta66 >SX2 >UAD-1 >Wavelab. (Sorry for printing this in the high end column)

I've been wanting to use the board for mixing/summing, but haven't had the time with the day job.

-Stixxs
Old 30th June 2005
  #56
Gear Maniac
 
SoulSpace's Avatar
 

OK Steve,

Next test...the A/D shoot out! Mackiet vs. Apogee vs. Lavry. Let's hear it.

You gotta do it!
Old 30th June 2005
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
SoulSpace's Avatar
 

my bad, I thought this was a D/A test...sorry.
Old 30th June 2005
  #58
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spectacular g's Avatar
 

Thanks Bang,

you just saved me some major ching.

when is good, good enough...

now.

when is "the best" a pipedream...

always.

next time,
jfg
Old 30th June 2005
  #59
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for the time and effort doing this, Bang! Can you post the original, source clip to compare to?
Old 30th June 2005
  #60
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spectacular g's Avatar
 

and...

how about the mix chain?

any tube or tape emulation?

thanks again,
jfg
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