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Check this out! ITB or Analog?
Old 4th January 2009
  #1
Check this out! ITB or Analog?

On the first impression, what is this mix mixed on?

I want to know if most people can tell.

Cry-Mix
Old 4th January 2009
  #2
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Sounds to me like it is recorded to digital. The vocal sounds like a Neve 1272, the drums sound like an IC based pre (maybe an Octapre,Presonus,or Mackie). Cool style. Reminds me of Elvis Costello.
Old 4th January 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
On the first impression, what is this mix mixed on?

I want to know if most people can tell.

Cry-Mix
This is ridiculos, without knowing what it's been recorded on and a bit of a background no one could ever tell (even if you gave us more information it would be almost impossible). There may be some lucky guesses but I strongly believe it would be just a coincidence.
Old 4th January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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reid's Avatar
 

Definitely sounds like the cable everything was going through was cheap - and I'm guessing the mains cables are cheapos from Walmart?

For all I know it's been mixed on an SSL 4000, but it's hard to tell with that cheap cable vibe all over it.
Old 5th January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by reid View Post
Definitely sounds like the cable everything was going through was cheap - and I'm guessing the mains cables are cheapos from Walmart?

For all I know it's been mixed on an SSL 4000, but it's hard to tell with that cheap cable vibe all over it.
Well, this is the responses Im looking for. I want to know if you can tell whether this was ITB or Analog. The tracking was done in Fletcher's studio. And the guitars, piano and a couple other things have that cheap cable vibe on the raw tracks, your right. Its amazing people point that out.

The artist's name is "Jim Gambino". The track is from a solo record he's doing.

The line up for the recording was Jim on vocals, piano & B-3. Jaime Walker and Tim Giovaneillo on guitars, Paul Kochanski on bass and Tony Wilson from Mercenary's NY office on drums... I'm sure there's a gear list somewhere... I just don't know where.
Old 5th January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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World Studios's Avatar
Hi!

I think it sounds "analog", but I could't tell if that comes from heavy use of outboard going in and/or an analog compressor on the masterbuss or whatnot. But, if the goal was to make it sound "analog", I think you have succeeded. The sound is far from perfect, though... I think that has more to do with the tracking than the mixing. :-) Sounds like budget mics, pres and convertors (cables?`;-) ) have seen too much use.
Old 5th January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

It was clearly recorded with 57's facing towards the ceiling. I am positive that the pre's were 1272's and the guitars are nylon strings. Sounds great
Old 5th January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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5down1up's Avatar
 

itb to my ears ... more guessing than knowing heh
Old 5th January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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wildpark's Avatar
 

under that masc seems too be a lot of power !

recorded analog but catched with a cheap ad convertor
Old 5th January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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Since you ask - ITB, I can't see why you would bother to ask If It was mixed OTB

I think it sounds fine qualite wise.

I Would not have used that snare/snare-sample. A matter of taste
Old 6th January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by steffo View Post
Since you ask - ITB, I can't see why you would bother to ask If It was mixed OTB

I think it sounds fine qualite wise.

I Would not have used that snare/snare-sample. A matter of taste
Its not a sample, its called engineering. You know, when you use EQs and compressors with effects to do what you want.....ya know.

The tracking was not that great, true! The GTRs sound way in the back and I could not eq too much to bring them out. I tried allot. Anyways I am at peace that most of you decided that the recording was not great, which is true.

I will let this go a bit and Il spill the beans.
Old 7th January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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..and using samples does not make it less "engineering" ya know
Old 7th January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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Jay-'s Avatar
track one is Monster cable and track two is Radio shack..

I like the radio shack version best..
Old 9th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 

Gear Listing for "Cry"

Hello All,
The gear list for β€œCry” by Jim Gambino is:

Kick: Mic- Crowley and Tripp El Diablo Mic Pre- Tab V78. Amtec PEQ-1A

Snare: Mic- Milab DC 96B Mic Pre- Chandler TG2
Snare: Mic- Shure SM57 Mic Pre- Chandler TG2
Both snare mics summed through TG2.

Floor Tom Top: Mic- Sennheiser 421 Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Floor Tom Bottom- Mic- Josephson e22S Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Both floor tom mics summed in 3124MB+ sent to Empirical Labs Lil Freq

Rack Tom Top: Mic- Sennheiser 421 Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Rack Tom Bottom- Mic- Josephson e22S Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Both rack tom mics summed in 3124MB+

Hi Hat: Mic- MilabVM44 Classic Mic Pre- Phoenix Audio DRS2

Overhead Ride Side: Mic- Microtech Geffell M930 Mic Pre- Thermionic Culture Earlybird2
Overhead Hat Side: Mic- Microtech Geffell M930 Mic Pre- Thermionic Culture Earlybird2

Room Ride Side: Mic- Avenson STO-2 Mic Pre- Drawmer 1969
Room Hat Side: Mic- Avenson STO-2 Mic Pre- Drawmer 1969

Room Center: Mic- KEM 970 Mic Pre- Pendulum Audio Quartet II

Bass DI: Demeter Tube Direct to Purple Audio MC77 to a mult one output to recorder another to Little Labs IBP to reamp line to Ampeg SVT.
Bass Amp: Mic-Shure SM7B Mic Pre- Great River MP1NV

Jamie's Guitar- Mic- Royer 121 Prototype Mic Pre- Great River MP2NV
Tim's Guitar- Mic- Crowley and Tripp Proscenium Mic Pre- Great River MP2NV

B3 Top- Mic- Royer SF-12 Mic Pre- 2 channels of NPNG QMP-4NW
B3 Bottom- Mic- Sennheiser 421 Mic Pre- NPNG QMP-4NW

Ambient Mic Left (Tim vox)- Mic- Shure SM57 Mic Pre- Crane Song Flamingo
Ambient Mic Right (Jamie Vox)- Mic- Shure SM57 Mic Pre-Crane Song Flamingo

Piano Left- Mic- Mercenary Audio MFG KM-69 Mic Pre- Neve 8803
Piano Right- Mic- Mercenary Audio MFG KM-69 Mic Pre- Neve 8803

Acoustic Guitar- Mic- Mercenary Audio MFG KM-69 Mic Pre- Sebatron VMP-2000eVU

Clavinet- Empirical Labs Derr-DI

Lead Vocal: Mic- Brauner KHE Mic Pre- Thermionic Culture Earlybird2 to Purple Audio MC77

If you need anything else let me know.
Alex
Old 10th January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex perez View Post
Hello All,
The gear list for β€œCry” by Jim Gambino is:

Kick: Mic- Crowley and Tripp El Diablo Mic Pre- Tab V78. Amtec PEQ-1A

Snare: Mic- Milab DC 96B Mic Pre- Chandler TG2
Snare: Mic- Shure SM57 Mic Pre- Chandler TG2
Both snare mics summed through TG2.

Floor Tom Top: Mic- Sennheiser 421 Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Floor Tom Bottom- Mic- Josephson e22S Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Both floor tom mics summed in 3124MB+ sent to Empirical Labs Lil Freq

Rack Tom Top: Mic- Sennheiser 421 Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Rack Tom Bottom- Mic- Josephson e22S Mic Pre- API 3124MB+. SPL TD4
Both rack tom mics summed in 3124MB+

Hi Hat: Mic- MilabVM44 Classic Mic Pre- Phoenix Audio DRS2

Overhead Ride Side: Mic- Microtech Geffell M930 Mic Pre- Thermionic Culture Earlybird2
Overhead Hat Side: Mic- Microtech Geffell M930 Mic Pre- Thermionic Culture Earlybird2

Room Ride Side: Mic- Avenson STO-2 Mic Pre- Drawmer 1969
Room Hat Side: Mic- Avenson STO-2 Mic Pre- Drawmer 1969

Room Center: Mic- KEM 970 Mic Pre- Pendulum Audio Quartet II

Bass DI: Demeter Tube Direct to Purple Audio MC77 to a mult one output to recorder another to Little Labs IBP to reamp line to Ampeg SVT.
Bass Amp: Mic-Shure SM7B Mic Pre- Great River MP1NV

Jamie's Guitar- Mic- Royer 121 Prototype Mic Pre- Great River MP2NV
Tim's Guitar- Mic- Crowley and Tripp Proscenium Mic Pre- Great River MP2NV

B3 Top- Mic- Royer SF-12 Mic Pre- 2 channels of NPNG QMP-4NW
B3 Bottom- Mic- Sennheiser 421 Mic Pre- NPNG QMP-4NW

Ambient Mic Left (Tim vox)- Mic- Shure SM57 Mic Pre- Crane Song Flamingo
Ambient Mic Right (Jamie Vox)- Mic- Shure SM57 Mic Pre-Crane Song Flamingo

Piano Left- Mic- Mercenary Audio MFG KM-69 Mic Pre- Neve 8803
Piano Right- Mic- Mercenary Audio MFG KM-69 Mic Pre- Neve 8803

Acoustic Guitar- Mic- Mercenary Audio MFG KM-69 Mic Pre- Sebatron VMP-2000eVU

Clavinet- Empirical Labs Derr-DI

Lead Vocal: Mic- Brauner KHE Mic Pre- Thermionic Culture Earlybird2 to Purple Audio MC77

If you need anything else let me know.
Alex
Thanks Alex!

I was trying to get this from Fletcher to post here. Thanks!
Old 10th January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Where in the heck did all the highs go? Usually when I compress audio as an MP3 @ 320 kbps the highs almost go to 20,000. I'm not bagging on the recording I think it sounds fine. I'm honestly curious.

Thnx

Old 10th January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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bcgood's Avatar
 

For comparison purposes here is a track I mastered tonight.

This is the spectrum of the mp3.



I have also included a short clip of the very beginning of the song as an mp3.
Attached Files

SMFSL_bcgood_master.mp3 (1.49 MB, 209 views)

Old 10th January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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5down1up's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
For comparison purposes here is a track I mastered tonight

looks better heh took me some secs till i realized that the timescale is the x and the hz the y ! whats the name of that meter ?
Old 10th January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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bcgood's Avatar
 

For this example I used the one that came with Cool Edit Pro 2.0

I also have Adobe Audition which has a nicer one but it takes longer to get going.

Cool Edit 2.0 opens files the fastest. What can I say, I'm impatient. heh

The mp3 was rendered in Wavelab.
Old 11th January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Hey guys thanks for your contribution!

But what is this file? I dont get what the discussion is all about? I downloaded the song and it sounds great but its not the song Im talking about. So please, enlighten me!

Btw a on the fly mastered version is now available on the original link. So do download and re listen. I tent to mix darker so its easier to master and I cant help it.


Update!
After actually reading things over a few times I got it....sorry for being stupid there for about 1 minute! LOL

Yeah, I dont know what happened to the highs but please listen to the new one. Redownload it because the first one was a rough mix not mastered as I dont like EQs on the master buss. Like I said I tend to mix darker so its smoother at mastering and not so harsh as the high hats and other instruments tend to get very sibaly and annoying and I hate that as much as bad compression pumping!
Old 11th January 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
For this example I used the one that came with Cool Edit Pro 2.0

I also have Adobe Audition which has a nicer one but it takes longer to get going.

Cool Edit 2.0 opens files the fastest. What can I say, I'm impatient. heh

The mp3 was rendered in Wavelab.
Id appreciate it if you could analyze the new one. This was posted about 3 days ago. Same link.
Old 11th January 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Id appreciate it if you could analyze the new one. This was posted about 3 days ago. Same link.
I just looked at the new one. It basically looks just like the old one I already posted the spectrum of.
Old 11th January 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
I just looked at the new one. It basically looks just like the old one I already posted the spectrum of.
Really? Thats interesting because I did push the High end I think about 1.5-2 db as a shelf. I have no idea why this is like this. il have to check my channels see if I have any filters or something. I dont know....

Anyways, I thought that after seeing Mercenary post a final mix of the same song id post the truth about this mix. Please note that this mix was done just for the hell of it...

This song was mixed in my small home studio (which is currently in the final stages of a massive upgrade in gear). The picture below is exactly the equipment I used and it is mixed obviously completely ITB on Nuendo 3. You have the gear list above and the picture below.

It was interesting to see the spectrum analasys of the mix and as much as I hate to see it drop at about 16 k I do like the really warm activity I am seeing from 3k and down, its exactly what I was going for. The monitors are Roland DS-7s (discontinued, but GREAT MONITORS!) and the converter is an Edirol FA-101 going through the Samson C-Control.
Attached Thumbnails
Check this out! ITB or Analog?-img00003.jpg  
Old 11th January 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Cool, thanks for posting with examples and pics. This is how we all can learn more. You can only read for so long. Hearing and seeing along with writing about engineering is important.

It would be interesting to figure out what caused the sharp drop in the high end of the spectrum. I've done that to my mixes before too but I can't remember what I did to cause it.

Cheers
Old 11th January 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 

For what it's worth, I definitely thought ITB as soon as it came on. Sounds a little 2Dish. As I said.... for what it's worth.
Old 12th January 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Rose View Post
For what it's worth, I definitely thought ITB as soon as it came on. Sounds a little 2Dish. As I said.... for what it's worth.
Not meaning to brag or anything AT ALL but I though this had lots of debth. And when comparing, (again, not barging just for comparisons) the Mercenary edition of the mix (look at their methlab under "cry") after hearing that, you will see what I mean. In my opinion and for my taste that one has too much bite and sounds too un-natural. But maybe thats what Shaun wanted.

Even without the comparrison I think its got plenty of debth. That drum sound and the plate on the snare helps with that. Anyways thanks for letting me know what you think. I just though id post this to shed some light on the equipment "magic box" fantasy most new engineers have about equipment and ITB and OTB. I hope this shed some light on the matter and the fact that if you can mix ITB with some great pluins and the song sounds like ****, then your same song with tons of great outboard on a Neve or API Vision will still sound like ****. Even though I think mixing on a console with some great ouboard yealds much better results as well as makes it easier for me to get the sounds I want i also realize that if I cant get the ITB mix 95% there then I know I wont be doing any better mixing analog. And this proves it.

I would love to hear some of your mixes of the same song. Get the session at Mercs website.
Old 12th January 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
I just looked at the new one. It basically looks just like the old one I already posted the spectrum of.
you sure you re downloaded it, and not just had firefox or what ever skip the download because it thought its the same file? You do know that firefox can do that, as a matter of fact most browsers can. Try to delete the old and download the new one again.

I highly doubt that....
Old 12th January 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
you sure you re downloaded it, and not just had firefox or what ever skip the download because it thought its the same file? You do know that firefox can do that, as a matter of fact most browsers can. Try to delete the old and download the new one again.

I highly doubt that....
Yep, just checked it again. The file was deleted and I downloaded the current one to my desktop. Same thing sorry, no worries though.
Old 12th January 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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seaneldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
But maybe thats what Shaun wanted
My name is Sean and I did not do that final mix. Snippets of my mix in progress can be heard in the videos.
Old 13th January 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaneldon View Post
My name is Sean and I did not do that final mix. Snippets of my mix in progress can be heard in the videos.
Ohh, I asumed that you did the mix since it was you on the videos. My appologies.
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