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Octava vs DPA vs Schoeps
Old 30th November 2008
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Octava vs DPA vs Schoeps

Today I made a short comparison of three pair SDCs.

Contenders were:

Octava MC012 Omni, matched pair.
DPA 4006, matched pair. Silver grid.
Schoeps MK2s, matched pair

Recorded material is a drum (What I had available)

In order to compare a few different aspects of the microphones, the test contains:

Snare at approx 3 meter distance. Without "snare carpet"
Snare at approx 3 meter distance.
Keys moving from distant to very close.
Drumstick hit on scene floor.
Drumstick walking around.
Snare close in front of, and below, microphones.
Snare behind microphones. (Off axis response)

Levels were matched as close as possible when recording.

Mic A
Mic B
Mic C

Enjoy!
Old 1st December 2008
  #2
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for the test.
I don't care to guess witch microphone is behind A,B,C. I liked B best, then A. Microphone C is noticeably darker with less details. If oktava is one of A or B, i'm buying 2kg's of 012 tomorrow
Old 1st December 2008
  #3
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World Studios's Avatar
Hi!

Tack for posting! I prefer B as well, but could probably be happy with A as well. The stereo field is much more narrow on the A file. Why is that? Bi is a bit brighter, A a bit more full and warm.
Old 1st December 2008
  #4
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World Studios's Avatar
Given the price, there is no way C is anything other than the Oktava. If not, I am buying a dozen of them...
Old 1st December 2008
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Listening to the files with HD600 I rank them subjectively;

B
A
C

I agree more or less with the others about the sound and differences. B sounds most open and clear followed by A and C sounding tired and slow in comparison.

edit:I really have no idea which is which since I have not used any of thes mic's, that said... here we go;

B - DPA
A - Schoeps
C - Octava

I also felt that B was a littel higher in level but I'm not sure. These files are such that the ouder ones would have an advantage. I'll see if I can get some time and import them into Foobar and do level calibrated ABX.


/Peter
Old 1st December 2008
  #6
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drumzealot's Avatar
 

1. B
2. A
3. C
Old 2nd December 2008
  #7
Gear Addict
 
ABBA's Avatar
Listening in my humble stereo-setup in my office...

A - Schopes
B - DPA
C - Oktava

or possibly (but not likely)

A - Oktava
B - DPA
C - Schoeps

There seem to be a difference in the stereofield in the "C-clip".
Probably due to the inferior control of matched frequencies.

Thanks Mr. Ljudatervinning for the clips.

ABBA
Old 2nd December 2008
  #8
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mljung's Avatar
Thanks for making this fine comparison test thumbsup
[How far did you setup the A-B..? 1m or more..? Parallel or..?]

Like many others I agree that ((B)) sounded best or most open on these samples in general. The drums, in this [nice] room, likes that extra lift up high.
That must be the Schoeps MK2s

((A)) has a bit more emphasis in the mids or lack of extra in the highs [but is otherwise pretty similar to B]. Close up recordings are maybe a little better with A [or well suited] than B. That's silver-gridded DPA I reckon [BTW are these TL or not..?]

(C) sounds like bad matched Oktava omni's

¤
Mads
Old 2nd December 2008
  #9
Gear Nut
 
primitive's Avatar
 

the same here:
1-b
2-a
3-c

i also think that c should be the oktavas but if not... gimme gimme gimme hehhehheh
Old 2nd December 2008
  #10
Gear Nut
 
studio freak's Avatar
 

+1 on B

I dont remember the 012 being so bright... so i guess B is either schoeps or DPA
Old 2nd December 2008
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

A little more info...

This is a picture of the setup.
Distance between mics was approx 40cm. Three equally wide K&M bars was used.

All pairs are matched within 1 dB 20-20kHz.
I have measured both the schoeps and the octava par a few years ago. I haven't measured the DPA, but according to the enclosed measurement from the factory, they are within 1dB.



The DPA pair is the "old" version with transformer.
Old 2nd December 2008
  #12
Gear Head
 
llatsni's Avatar
 

Could'nt really decide which I liked best between A & B, at different times i preferred a different one. A, has possibly a little more high mid, but only a touch. Really disliked C, sounded terrible alongside the other 2. YUCK.

So in terms of whats what I think i'll go with:

A - DPA
B - Schoeps
C - Oktava
Old 2nd December 2008
  #13
Gear Head
 
FastlanePro's Avatar
 

B wins by far in my book.

less difference between A & C, but A definitely 2nd. C is third. Transients seem dull, much less sparkle, seemed to emphasize the "wrong" things to my ears. Also much less detailed in the quiet sections. Just due to high end? Hard to tell on my stupid macbook speakers. heh

I only have the oktavas and haven't even really put them through their paces as I *just* got them.

No clue which is which - never heard the other 2. I can say without a doubt that *if* the oktavas are B - i'm going to wet myself.

Cheers,
Lane
Old 2nd December 2008
  #14
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastlanePro View Post
B wins by far in my book.

I can say without a doubt that *if* the oktavas are B - i'm going to wet myself.

Cheers,
Lane
It is not dfegad
Old 2nd December 2008
  #15
Gear Head
 
FastlanePro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
It is not dfegad
oh - i know...

a guy can hope, can't he?
Old 3rd December 2008
  #16
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastlanePro View Post
oh - i know...

a guy can hope, can't he?

Sorry - of course - Hey maybe I'm wrong []

All the best
M
Old 3rd December 2008
  #17
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mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljudatervinning View Post
A little more info....
Thanks for the info [must admit I thought the it was a broader A-B]

Old 3rd December 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
Thanks for the info [must admit I thought the it was a broader A-B]

Actually me too. Even though listening in phones I felt there was a hole in the middle so to speak.


/Peter
Old 3rd December 2008
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Updated files!

Something went wrong when I encoded the mp3s, or is it just me?
The files are now updated.
Please listen again, and reevaluate if necessary.

Same microphones, same file names.

Right click and save as. (If I click on the link, for some reason (?) the sound is mainly coming from the left speaker)
Old 3rd December 2008
  #20
Lives for gear
 

I heard some channel imbalance as well. More volume in left.

Will listen again tomorrow.


/Peter
Old 3rd December 2008
  #21
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bcgood's Avatar
 

I don't normally guess on these types of shoot outs unless I have wave files to compare. But I'm going to guess in this case just 4 fun, weee!

A. DPA

B. Schoeps

C. Octava
Old 3rd December 2008
  #22
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljudatervinning View Post
Something went wrong when I encoded the mp3s, or is it just me?
The files are now updated.
Please listen again, and reevaluate if necessary.

Same microphones, same file names.

Right click and save as. (If I click on the link, for some reason (?) the sound is mainly coming from the left speaker)
Aha this was why I thought that the A-B spread was much larger

It also made quite a difference sound wise:

A: Sounds best on the close-up recording [DPA I guess]
B: Sounds best on distant recordings [Schoeps I guess]. The ekstra lift up high seems more predominant now, B is not a clear winner anymore.
C: Doesn't sound unmatched [as they did] but still does not exhibit the same high resolution as the others [but there's a certain Oktava charm]

¤¤
Mads
Old 5th December 2008
  #23
Here for the gear
 

results?
can't wait any more
Old 5th December 2008
  #24
Gear Addict
 
ABBA's Avatar
I prefer A.
And then B.
Both sound similar and both sound good.

One problem with Oktava is that the stereomatching can be good but
different 012 pairs can sound really different.
I compared my pair against another matched pair and there were
several obvious differences.

ABBA
Old 5th December 2008
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

OK, time for the correct answers!

As some of you already guessed:

A= DPA 4006
B= Schoeps CMC62s
C= Octava MC012
Old 6th December 2008
  #26
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljudatervinning View Post
OK, time for the correct answers!

As some of you already guessed:

A= DPA 4006
B= Schoeps CMC62s
C= Octava MC012

I have a new respect for Schoeps, (Not that I didn't before) those sounded great. I'll have to get a bunch of my own and compare. Would also have loved to hear the Peluso's in this shootout.
Old 6th December 2008
  #27
Gear Addict
 
ABBA's Avatar
Thanks!

Strange - Schoeps sounding brighter than DPA???

In my experience the Schoeps always sound a tad warmer in the high frequencies
compared to DPA.
Is there a big difference in sound with the new Cmc6 compared to the old Cmc5?

ABBA
Old 6th December 2008
  #28
Lives for gear
 

The Schopes omni used is a diffuse field corrected variant, yes?

I don't remember reading anyhting about distance but it sounds like the recordings were done at a good distance and diffuse field mic's tend to sound more open and natural in such situations.

I guessed wrong (probably) because I assumed the smaller capsule of DPA would be more "true omni" but I really don't know how that mic performs depending on the nose cone/grill or whatever is used.


Some time ago I listened to a clip of a MKH80/800 and a KM183 in lively acoustic and at a distance, the KM183 with its diffuse field response ate the Senn for breakfast and lunch.

Short story, I wonder how much of these differences are due to various quality parameters and how much is due to "simple" frequency response.

For sure I'm becoming more and more interested in Schopes.

/Peter
Old 6th December 2008
  #29
Gear Head
 
llatsni's Avatar
 

Yay! i guessed right heh

All the Schoeps mics I've had the pleasure of using are remarkably true to life, accurate and fast microphones of the highest quality. Perfect imaging is possible for Williams/OCT type setups.
Old 6th December 2008
  #30
Lives for gear
 
mljung's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by llatsni View Post
Yay! i guessed right heh

All the Schoeps mics I've had the pleasure of using are remarkably true to life, accurate and fast microphones of the highest quality. Perfect imaging is possible for Williams/OCT type setups.
But even though the CMC62s sounded fine on a distant drum, this does not tell us much about how it sounds on different acoustic instruments like violin and acoustic guitars [or a lot of others for that matter].

My aim here is not to question the quality of Schoeps, but just to emphasize that recording drums+percussion is only telling a part of the story. [I reckon a violin would be a bit strident or "edgy" unless it was recorded at quite a distance in a mellow room using these diffuse-field omnis].

To make a comparison of different brands of omni mics it would be better to test three brands with the same field eq's. Otherwise we are just as much comparing the frequency characteristics [which was why I found it so easy to guess which was which microphone in this test].

But interesting comparison non the less!

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