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Testing Audix D6 and Josephson e22s mic & 4 way SSL X-Logic mic pre unit - on drums
Old 8th April 2005
  #1
Testing Audix D6 and Josephson e22s mic & 4 way SSL X-Logic mic pre unit - on drums

(UPDATE - post 25 below has the audio file)

Audix D6 delivers great low end and a nice HF 'slap' on kick

Josephson e22s fits right in there between the hat & the snare.

both mic's do what they claim on the box.

Inside kick = Audix D6 - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting click) Fatso Jnr - PT
Top Snare = Josephson e22s - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting HF) Fatso Jnr - PT

I am still backing up the audix inner kick mic with an outer Royer 121 (w popshield) the combined sub is HUGE!

I am still using my fave Beyer 201 - API - Vocal Stresssor (for HF boost and extreme compresssion) on the undersnare

As Mr Albini says in the user guide that comes with the Josephson (he wrote the whole thing) the HF spill sound from hi hat & overheads is pleasent rather than annoying... and that is true. This is a joy to us....really

SSL pre's - are performing very well indeed

OH - OH 2 x Beyer M160 (in ORTF) SSL X-Logic mic pre's - TubeTech PE 1C (HF & sub boost for cymbal 'sheen' & tom 'thunder'- PT

Thanks to Keith at KMR UK for the loan!

Old 8th April 2005
  #2
Deleted User
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I loved the josephson e22 when I tried it out!! Works really well on snare (of course) but was killer on mesa-boogie guitar combo

I found the SSL mic pres to be really nice and open - very good for OH and acoustic guitar, if you want a bright prominent sound.

Enjoy your tesing!

Si
Old 8th April 2005
  #3
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
both mic's do what they claim on the box.

Inside kick = Audix D6 - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting click) Fatso Jnr - PT
Top Snare = Josephson e22s - SSL X-Logic mic pre - Focusrite 215 (boosting HF) Fatso Jnr - PT

I am still backing up the audix inner kick mic with an outer royer 121 (w popshield) the combined sub is HUGE!
I'd love to hear that e22 ...

Also try the D6 on the beater side o kik (out of phase) with a dark LDC or the 121 heh
Old 8th April 2005
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
I'd love to hear that e22 ...

Also try the D6 on the beater side o kik (out of phase) with a dark LDC or the 121 heh
the e22s is worth a try for sure!!!

I may try that beater side tip if we hang on to for another session
Old 8th April 2005
  #5
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

Try the D4!, it's a compact 421, best out of the D series. You might have to Eq it for kik but it should be the only mic you have to use if you put it right. you can use a few of them for different things gtr bass amp trombone baritone sax floortom tom top snare percussion, the D6 you can only put in front of a kik for that one sound if it suits you
D4 beater side and shell side angle them to SS and opposite BS the OH
Old 8th April 2005
  #6
We have the D6 inside the kick.. is this illeagal?
Old 8th April 2005
  #7
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lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7rojo7
Try the D4!, it's a compact 421, best out of the D series. You might have to Eq it for kik but it should be the only mic you have to use if you put it right. you can use a few of them for different things gtr bass amp trombone baritone sax floortom tom top snare percussion, the D6 you can only put in front of a kik for that one sound if it suits you
D4 beater side and shell side angle them to SS and opposite BS the OH
We love the d4 on any bass into a portaflex, centered, with an API 512b to 2"


what's the lingo ... "SS and opposite BS the OH" ?
Old 8th April 2005
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
We have the D6 inside the kick.. is this illeagal?
fwiw, i use my d6 inside the kik as well. this is combined with a yamaha subkick and it works really well.
joshua
Old 8th April 2005
  #9
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joaquin's Avatar
 

post by Jules
Quote:
I am still backing up the audix inner kick mic with an outer royer 121 (w popshield) the combined sub is HUGE!
Hey Jules, Can we listen to some samples of this combination?
Where exactly do you position the D6 with respect to the beater? distance to the front, to the side, and angle?...or it don't matter much?
Isn't the Royer supposed to be fragile and not suited for that much SPL?
Thanks....Joaquin.
Old 9th April 2005
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by joaquin
post by Jules


Hey Jules, Can we listen to some samples of this combination?
Where exactly do you position the D6 with respect to the beater? distance to the front, to the side, and angle?...or it don't matter much?
Isn't the Royer supposed to be fragile and not suited for that much SPL?
Thanks....Joaquin.
Audix in middle of drum.... (through hole) just off centre.... (I was taught to try to find the spot with the least 'wind" ????? and put the mic there) royer 6 inches away..

I will try to post MP3 samples

On my drum aux I always have McDSP compressor bank, URS N12 graphic eq plug in (boosting 30hz & top 3 bands in smile shape), Cranesong Phoenix set to Dark Essence Opal (3 O'Clock)

Seems both brownmouse and I are diggin the same Audix D6 inner + "something picking up the sub" outer party....

This session is sleazy rock n roll....

Somehow I can imagine the Audix to be an awesome New Metal / Emo punk kick mic...(Oh Sliiiiiiiiiiiipermannnnnnnnn where arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre yooooooooooooooo?)

Is this the Dual Rectum Fryer of kick mic's??
Old 9th April 2005
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Audix in middle of drum.... (through hole) just off centre.... (I was taught to try to find the spot with the least 'wind" ????? and put the mic there) royer 6 inches away..

I will try to post MP3 samples

On my drum aux I always have McDSP compressor bank, URS N12 graphic eq plug in (boosting 30hz & top 3 bands in smile shape), Cranesong Phoenix set to Dark Essence Opal (3 O'Clock)

Seems both brownmouse and I are diggin the same Audix D6 inner + "something picking up the sub" outer party....

This session is sleazy rock n roll....

Somehow I can imagine the Audix to be an awesome New Metal / Emo punk kick mic...(Oh Sliiiiiiiiiiiipermannnnnnnnn where arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre yooooooooooooooo?)

Is this the Dual Rectum Fryer of kick mic's??
It was designed specifically to go inside the kick
Old 9th April 2005
  #12
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

Sorry
SS = shell side
BS = beater side
OH = overheads
I was in a rush
I was describing something similar to Snare Top and Bottom technique
I always use the same mics for top and bottom and point them directly at each other also keeping in mind the angles of the over heads.
I don't ever point the mic 90° to the skin, one of the first engineers I worked with showed me this and I've done it ever since. If I mic beater side and in the shell through the hole or with the front head off, I position the beater mic for optimum isolation from the snare and Fl.Tom and the shell mic exactly opposite. This works great for closed double headed kiks also with mics you wouldn't normally associate as kik mics, SD condensors. I've used KM56s like this for Jazz kits, but that's a whole different business.
I like the SM91 inside a closed drum sound alot. I like my N90 in the hole or with the head off. Recently I had a Schoeps CCM5 in omni about 2 feet in front of a closed kik with nothing in side and 2 Schoeps CCM5 in Cardioid over head and over the shoulder for a blues power trio which was real. Tight player with good control over his sound.
I wish I could get more N90s, they need a lot of gain but they have a very natural sound. That's what the D4 sounds like to me but I like my N90 better, you can use these mics for other things too.
For a bigger sound I'll put a mike LD 4feet or so in front of the kit 1/2 an inch from the floor angled down a touch (boundary effect) this can make even smaller rooms sound huge.
The D6 is that metal sound for sure and works for other music, I like it better than it's competitors, D112, Beta 52, Sennheiser 602, haven't tried the Beyer kik mic or the EV. But RE20s and 421s come in handy for other purposes.
Old 9th April 2005
  #13
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Hey Jules,

Thanks for posting. I have a very bad case of gear lust for the Josephsons, so I, for one, appreciate your post of the use of them on drums.

Like others have asked, if you get a chance to post some mp3s, that too would be most appreciated.

What would be even more appreciated would be mp3s of the Josephson on snare, in a shootout with the Beyer (I have the Revox badged version) and the (insert denigrating word here...) SM57.

Taking you completely for granted,

bdp
Old 9th April 2005
  #14
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...727#post303727

You will find sound bites there...

in .aiff format

I dunno if they will help you draw any conclusions...

But there they are..

Old 9th April 2005
  #15
I have since added SansApmed distorted copy tracks of the inner kick & SN to make it 'hip hop' breath a little more.... (I do that all the time anyway...)
Old 9th April 2005
  #16
Moderator
 
toolskid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joaquin
post by Jules
Isn't the Royer supposed to be fragile and not suited for that much SPL?
Thanks....Joaquin.
the royer is well capable of handling the spls, just angle it downwards and use a decent popshield. I've had people yell into my r122s and an assistant walk it into the door frame on a tall stand () no reduction in performance wat-so-ever!!! heh

very very robust....

AWESOME front of kick mic!!!
Old 9th April 2005
  #17
Gear Addict
 
alnico's Avatar
 

What about the E22's on toms????!
Old 10th April 2005
  #18
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joaquin's Avatar
 

Hey, Thanks Jules and Toolskid!!
I'm planning on using a D6 in my up coming project paired with a D112 flushed with the outside skin in the Kick. I've been using this last one in that position with great results, I just need to add a little more of "click" to the sound, and for all I'dhear the D6 seems to be the right choice. I may also try a K2 about a feet in front of the Kick...any one did that?
Good to Know that the Royer is capable of high SPL...I was avoiding that mic in my "must have" list for that reason, and the fact that I usually do not work a lot with Fig8 patterns...must try it.
Hey Jules, I could not listen to the samples...

Quote:
I don't ever point the mic 90° to the skin, one of the first engineers I worked with showed me this and I've done it ever since. If I mic beater side and in the shell through the hole or with the front head off, I position the beater mic for optimum isolation from the snare and Fl.Tom and the shell mic exactly opposite. This works great for closed double headed kiks also with mics you wouldn't normally associate as kik mics, SD condensors. I've used KM56s like this for Jazz kits, but that's a whole different business.
Hi 7Rojo7, interesting aproach, but that would be from the beater side?, is the interior mic a 180' out of phase with the one in the beater side? what if you are only using the mic from the inside? would that one be in a 90' angle with the skin?
Jules, what's the angle you are using it in relation with the skin?
I know that I will have to try all my self and get my own conclusions, but knowing others experiences wont hurt.
Thanks again.............................Joaquin.
Old 10th April 2005
  #19
"Hey Jules, I could not listen to the samples... "

Try downloading them then burning a CD... they are aiff's

D6 inside, middle of drum, slightly to one side facing straight towards drummer..

It does have a nice click, I added to it with a Focusrite 215 about + 4 db..
Old 10th April 2005
  #20
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

You check for the one that's in phase with the over heads, the other one should be logically out of phase if it's pointed directly opposite. listen in mono, solo each mic with the overheads and switch the phase. Out of phase presents a drastic decrease in lo end response and after a couple of seconds makes you feel like this This should be done with every mic on the kit always stike
I don't ever put a mic at 90° with something blowing into it, not even singers, I angle the mic away from their nose and towards their chest (down) and keep their distance with the pop filter and a music stand
I've only done this on a non double headed kik once when I couldn't no way get a mike inside to work, on double header kiks I use it quite a lot.
The thing I like about double micing drums with opposing pairs is the bass and fullness you get, not just the snare.
If I use 1 mic on a snare, I use a good mic and get it more from the side of the drum (shell), but this doesn't work for every type of drummer or music.
The E22 sounds like it could be good for this.
What's the verdict, what do they go for here in Europe? The E22
Have you used them on gtr amp, ac gtr, other things?
I am actually looking for a "good" snare and tom mic that I can use on other things, and especially as a spot mic when recording orchestral music.
I'm trying some AT AE series next week the 5400 hand held LC gets a shoot out with a KMS105 I expect the 5400 to be bigger and the 3000 side address SC that could work.
Old 10th April 2005
  #21
We got great 'live' takes on this session (just putting the last mix down now)

So we didn't do any overdubs... so dont know what it would be like on gtr.. Tom the engineer here is v excited to hear it on gtr....

OK band just left.. said I can stick an MP3 up..

I will add it to the aiff files here...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...727#post303727

Old 10th April 2005
  #22
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

thanks for posting the samples jules
Old 10th April 2005
  #23
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joaquin's Avatar
 

Thanks Jules!!
Old 10th April 2005
  #24
May try to put up a drum only MP3 tomorrow
Old 11th April 2005
  #25
Here it is...
Attached Files

01 Jules Mic Test.mp3 (4.04 MB, 1287 views)

Old 11th April 2005
  #26
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joaquin's Avatar
 

JULES YOU ROCK!! THANK YOU!! heh
Old 11th April 2005
  #27
TRW
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TRW's Avatar
Hi Jules! New here but been lurking for ages...great post at a great site.

...lovin' the bottom snare "F**k it!!" thumbsup - too funny.

I think the e22s sounds awesome - are you keeping them, impressed? I would kill for a pair of those. Maybe next year...

I think I have to try the sans amp trick BTW - really powerful sound.

Cheers Tom
Old 11th April 2005
  #28
We loved BOTH mic's

We would like 1 x Audix D6 and about 8 x Josephson e22s'

thumbsup
Old 11th April 2005
  #29
Deleted User
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I too get the feeling that just a single e22 would never be enough

Si
Old 12th April 2005
  #30
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Jules, you are a legend.

Cheers,

bdp
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