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Acoustic Guitar - Neumann, Royer, Pearlman, Electro-Voice
Old 16th March 2008
  #1
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Acoustic Guitar - Neumann, Royer, Pearlman, Electro-Voice

I just purchased a new acoustic and decided to a do a little mic shootout.

I picked a dynamic, a small diaphragm condenser, a large diaphragm condenser and a ribbon mic.

Each mic was placed about 3 inches from the bridge. No compression or EQ.

I was a bit surprised by the results... let me know what you think.
Attached Files

KM184.wav (4.64 MB, 2568 views)

Royer 121.wav (4.39 MB, 2415 views)

EV RE55.wav (4.65 MB, 2291 views)

Pearlman TM2.wav (4.22 MB, 2286 views)

Old 16th March 2008
  #2
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BradM's Avatar
Was the front or back side of the Royer used? The back side works really well on acoustic.

Three inches from the bridge is kind of an odd placement. I usually do 8 inches from the neck/body joint.

Brad
Old 16th March 2008
  #3
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Mic pre and AD chain?
Old 16th March 2008
  #4
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norman_nomad's Avatar
TG2 -> ada8000
Old 16th March 2008
  #5
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
Was the front or back side of the Royer used? The back side works really well on acoustic.

Three inches from the bridge is kind of an odd placement. I usually do 8 inches from the neck/body joint.

Brad
What I should have said is 3 inches from the sound hole closer to the bridge side.

I used the back side of the Royer.

With the mic this close, proximity effect causes low-mid build up on all of the mics except the RE55 which seems to like this kind of distance from the source. Pulling the mics back evened out the frequency response but then some of the immediacy was lost.
Old 16th March 2008
  #6
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norman_nomad's Avatar
The Pearlman seems to take compression and EQ pretty well...
Attached Files
Old 16th March 2008
  #7
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dan p's Avatar
 

Nice sound! I use either a TM1 on acoustic gtr or a neumann u87ai thru either an avalon 737,great river mp2nv or a summit mpc 100a.I like the royer a lot.That could be my next mic.

Dan P
Old 17th March 2008
  #8
Gear Head
 

I just got a pair of KM-184's and could not be more pleased.

I also like my Senn e914.

Thanks for the Royer clip, I have been thinking about one. The Cascade Fathead II is way too dark for my taste.

I'd like to try the Royer on a guitar cab but I mostly record acoustic so I'd want to get alot of use out of it there to.

The clip here is nice but not my type of sound so there's some good $$$ savings right there.
Old 17th March 2008
  #9
Gear Nut
 

thanks for doing this man. i always enjoy your approaches to these different shootouts . just curious, have you ever done a 44.1k vs. 96k one?
Old 17th March 2008
  #10
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by opdev View Post
I just got a pair of KM-184's and could not be more pleased.

I also like my Senn e914.

Thanks for the Royer clip, I have been thinking about one. The Cascade Fathead II is way too dark for my taste.

I'd like to try the Royer on a guitar cab but I mostly record acoustic so I'd want to get alot of use out of it there to.

The clip here is nice but not my type of sound so there's some good $$$ savings right there.
The KM-184's are great.

I'll just make a few comments about this test to qualify it.

All of these mics are really close to the sound hole... I wanted an "intimate" sound but proximity effect is causing a lot of boominess. If I stuck the mic in a different place this shootout might sound totally different. The only mic that survives this close proximity without the boominess is the EV RE55 which I prefer to all of the others….that was the “surprise” part for me.

In the end I was able to EQ the Pearlman and get both intamacy and a more "mixable" EQ balance.

I think the R121 can be a really good acoustic mic when placed well on the right source.

If I have time, on Wed I’ll do a couple more R121 clips with different positions.
Old 17th March 2008
  #11
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dual0568 View Post
thanks for doing this man. i always enjoy your approaches to these different shootouts . just curious, have you ever done a 44.1k vs. 96k one?
Thanks. thumbsup

No I haven't done this kind of test, but I suppose the results would be different with different types of converters.
Old 20th March 2008
  #12
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norman_nomad's Avatar
OK... I was able to put together a couple more quick clips.

1. Pearlman TM2 in Omni ->TG2->La2a(hardware)->UAD1073
2. Royer 121 with a bit more distance from the sound hole->TG2->La2a(hardware)->Calrec EQ

This is far from a scientific comparison (I just turned knobs till I liked what I heard), but IMO both sound nice. The Pearlman has more detail and the Royer is creamier. I think either would be serviceable in a mix.
Attached Files

Pearlman TM2 OMNI with EQ and Comp.wav (5.04 MB, 1369 views)

Royer 121 with EQ and Comp.wav (5.01 MB, 1285 views)

Old 20th March 2008
  #13
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Zuewi's Avatar
 

On the first clips i prefer somehow the Royer, I think with a little tweaking it would sound better than the others. The Tm2 and the KM184 sounds also good while the the Tm2 has more character in the lows but sounds somehow more Hifi than the KM184. And the EV yeah it's tone is suprising to the others but it sounds that it's not relly made for Guitars

The sound of the second clip of the Tm2 what is unprocessed is awesome. The processed clip is a little overdone and shounds harsh I think.

The sound of the last two files from the Royer and the Tm2 shound also to harsh for my taste. The strumming of the Royer doesn't sound very good.

Very interesting sounds and nice work of you!
Old 20th March 2008
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

I like the EV., olo, I'd cut some hardness off the EV. That's ok with me, cutting that is.

The KM184 would be good for fast whole chord strumming.

I don't like the Royer.

I like the EV for the single note style you're playing.
Old 20th March 2008
  #15
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuewi View Post
On the first clips i prefer somehow the Royer, I think with a little tweaking it would sound better than the others. The Tm2 and the KM184 sounds also good while the the Tm2 has more character in the lows but sounds somehow more Hifi than the KM184. And the EV yeah it's tone is suprising to the others but it sounds that it's not relly made for Guitars

The sound of the second clip of the Tm2 what is unprocessed is awesome. The processed clip is a little overdone and shounds harsh I think.

The sound of the last two files from the Royer and the Tm2 shound also to harsh for my taste. The strumming of the Royer doesn't sound very good.

Very interesting sounds and nice work of you!
Thanks for you comments.

All of the EQ'd clips have a lot of top end added + a good deal of compression. This is how I might treat the guitar if I wanted it to poke out in a dense mix (what I work on quite a bit)... if I can I'll dig up the unprocessed versions to compare.

Old 20th March 2008
  #16
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norman_nomad's Avatar
one more royer clip...

Ok, so I had time to make one more quick Royer 121 clip.

This time the mic was neck side about 8 inches back (as Brad recommends earlier). This is a good position for finger picking, or more delicately played parts.

Here's a quick finger picking example... no processing on this clip.
Attached Files

Royer 121 Finger Pick Neck Side.wav (4.02 MB, 1237 views)

Old 22nd March 2008
  #17
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Zuewi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
Ok, so I had time to make one more quick Royer 121 clip.

This time the mic was neck side about 8 inches back (as Brad recommends earlier). This is a good position for finger picking, or more delicately played parts.

Here's a quick finger picking example... no processing on this clip.
That one sounds nice. Very soft and with a lot of lows and low mids but good!
Old 23rd March 2008
  #18
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuewi View Post
That one sounds nice. Very soft and with a lot of lows and low mids but good!
Yeah. I figured you might like this example since it's kind of the opposite of the super up front bridge-side examples. I like it too. It's a nice soft sound.

I just wanted to show that there are some different sides to the Royer. One of the things I like most about the Royer is the fact that the low-mids are so solid... part of the reason it makes for such a great dist guitar mic.
Old 23rd March 2008
  #19
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janek 68's Avatar
absolutely Pearlman has the most classy tubey sound.....Royer isn`t bad ...
Old 23rd June 2008
  #20
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sharky's Avatar
I'd love to hear more of anybody experiences with a 121 on Acoustic. I've been using it frontside into an SCA A12 into a Distressor with Dave Derr's recommended "transparent setting" and hit it with Dist 2 or 3 at times. Sometimes I'll hit the Distressor kinda hard going in, but I've blown it a few times so I pretty much settle back generally now and be safe. I dig it alright. It's a cool flavor.

A buddy swears by his 122. The tube 122 is in my future I think.

I've got a more aggressive song to track at some point in the next week or so and I'll tweez the same setup but use the MC77 instead of the Distressor and see what's doin' there.

Any magical 121 + Acoustic experiences of late from anyone?
Old 23rd June 2008
  #21
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sharky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by opdev View Post
I just got a pair of KM-184's and could not be more pleased.

I also like my Senn e914.

Thanks for the Royer clip, I have been thinking about one. The Cascade Fathead II is way too dark for my taste.

I'd like to try the Royer on a guitar cab but I mostly record acoustic so I'd want to get alot of use out of it there to.

The clip here is nice but not my type of sound so there's some good $$$ savings right there.
One thing to note about the Royer for future readers of this thread is that at 3 inches from the soundhole it isn't gonna really flatter that mic on an Acoustic. Mad proximity effect. I cruise it the twelfth fret about 18"-24" inches away a lot of the time.

And a 121 on a guitar cab is like apple pie and vanilla ice cream.
Old 25th November 2008
  #22
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Of the first clips I think KM184 was ok and the EV as well allthough the EV was slightly to hot in the upper mids. IMO a guitar doesn't sound very good miced that close and the proximity effect makes it very unfair to the Royer which sounds like a coat of wool. The pearlman.. a little so so, and it sounds like a recessed midrange with a little to prominent lows and highs.

Of the first four clips I'd prefer something in between the KM184 and the EV.

The processed clips of Royer and Pearlman sounded hard and agressive.


The nice thing with a fig-8 like the Royer is that it has more rejection of sounds coming in at an angle than a card (not to mention a omni) and this allows for a relatively distant positioning as long as one think about the back lobe. would be interesting to hear what it sounds like at 30-100cm. I listened to a clip at the Royer site of Bensusan.. a little different sounding than the clip in this test.


/Peter
Old 26th November 2008
  #23
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Of the first clips I think KM184 was ok and the EV as well allthough the EV was slightly to hot in the upper mids. IMO a guitar doesn't sound very good miced that close and the proximity effect makes it very unfair to the Royer which sounds like a coat of wool. The pearlman.. a little so so, and it sounds like a recessed midrange with a little to prominent lows and highs.

Of the first four clips I'd prefer something in between the KM184 and the EV.

The processed clips of Royer and Pearlman sounded hard and agressive.


The nice thing with a fig-8 like the Royer is that it has more rejection of sounds coming in at an angle than a card (not to mention a omni) and this allows for a relatively distant positioning as long as one think about the back lobe. would be interesting to hear what it sounds like at 30-100cm. I listened to a clip at the Royer site of Bensusan.. a little different sounding than the clip in this test.


/Peter
I agree. Close up just didn't sound very good on this guitar... I recently recorded a clip with my newly acquired Beyer 834.

Same guitar as the other clips but different mic position.

Check it out.
Old 26th November 2008
  #24
Gear Addict
 

I preferred the Neumann. The Pearlman sounds nice too, but the midrange in the Neumann sounds much better to me. And the top end, like 10kish, sounds exaggerated in the pearlman clip.

It would be neat to see how the Neumann holds EQ against the Royer. The royer needs a lot more EQ, and it would be interesting to see how comparable the end result would be between the two mics once the royer was brightened up.
Old 26th November 2008
  #25
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norman_nomad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Rose View Post
I preferred the Neumann. The Pearlman sounds nice too, but the midrange in the Neumann sounds much better to me. And the top end, like 10kish, sounds exaggerated in the pearlman clip.

It would be neat to see how the Neumann holds EQ against the Royer. The royer needs a lot more EQ, and it would be interesting to see how comparable the end result would be between the two mics once the royer was brightened up.
The Neumann's are nice. I'm tempted to go back and make some new clips with different mic positions because I think I'm selling some of these mics short with my quick/impromptu recording methods!

The Pearlman does have a healthy 10k bump... which works on some things and not on others....
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