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Neve 8816: The Real Test Summing Mixers
Old 23rd October 2007
  #1
Gear maniac
 
Vato's Avatar
 

Neve 8816: The Real Test

Sorry to put up a new thread but there seemed to be some wandering topics in that other one. Anyways THIS is a REAL test of what seemed to be the majority vote.
I want yall to know I didnt use ANY external hardware for this exept for the NEVE 8816. In the case of the ITB mix it is just bounced to disc. I also would like to give a disclaimer for being in a hurry to do this mix. This is not how this mix is going to sound. I have the Neve not only for its sonic watermark but for these other reasons:
1. outboard integration
2. Inserts- there is a standard one on as well as a mix insert that allows me to "dial in" the amount of iserted signal
3. Control Room Section ( the people in the booth never heard it so good)
4.Width Control- this is handy but you can get carried away.
5.A/D--this option is one of the best converters Ive heard and will allow DSD

So here it is. I tried to get the levels the same. they seem to be. I will again leave them unidentified untill later. Note that I still think there is more benefit from the Neve when you sum more that just a stereo track which is what I did here.
Vatoheh
Attached Files

A.mp3 (5.15 MB, 87785 views)

B.mp3 (5.13 MB, 81012 views)

Old 23rd October 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
goldphinga's Avatar
 

B is the Neve. More glued together, low definition better and much wider sounding than the ITB mix.

Old 23rd October 2007
  #3
Gear Addict
 
Continental's Avatar
 

b = neve
a = itb sound
Old 23rd October 2007
  #4
DAH
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DAH's Avatar
b=Neve, it seems to make low lows bigger, and the middle mids a lil scooped/balanced.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #5
Yup, I agree, B is the 8816.

It would be interesting to know how the ITB 2-trk mix would sound being passed through the 8816 and back to the DAW.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #6
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

id say B is the neve.

its pretty obvious to me.

that thing has a distinct color, and its a nice one to my ears............
Old 23rd October 2007
  #7
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To me the difference isn't worth $3000,
I can hardly hear a difference!
Old 23rd October 2007
  #8
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lpkyer's Avatar
 

A sounds like 1987
B sounds like Neve
Old 23rd October 2007
  #9
Well! now I can say that the Neve 8816 is not taking out some low mid info!

I maybe prefer B and found on B this:

Basicly is just a very tiny difference to me.....that is more a perception, I feel a super, super light warmth and a super tiny bit of depth and a little bass boost...yes I think B reacts better in certain parts like in the bridge where I feel a bit more cohesion ..like a light compression.

Soundwise I think the difference is not vconsiderable at all and you have to really close your eyes and really " try to hear and find " those tiny differences...I think is so hard to find the differences that from one day to another you will not know which one is Aor B.

Anyway...I think soundwise is not worth it the $3000 ticket, but if you want great Hardware integration, a good monitor section with width control and AUX..and other cool features...maybe is not so bad...and I am sure many would like it...also you may have a Neve unit that processes all your sounds!! many find this very attractive!

I am just here trying to judge only the sound,,,,,now, I also think may be interesting how this piece influence your mixing decitions..and maybe there is where is all about....so hard to know without the unit for a few days....

This so is not my song cup of tea(style) but I have to admit was cool and refreshing and I really like the feel of the vocals! very good Vato!

Vato what was your vocal chain in the recording and in the mixi?

Thanks!! I see you are really trying to help here and give all the best info for the Slutz interested in the Neve 8816!
Old 23rd October 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 

almost the same except middle and punch is gone in B. I believe that's the neve.

I also prefer the A. Dont want any box killin my punch and mids

$3,000 plus more $ in coverters not worth it to me.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #11
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GYang's Avatar
Very good song

Mix A is not exciting, even such nice song feels mostly like boring, plastic fukked, everything just missing 'that something' after one minute listening. Oh, no it can't be OTB, even if it is 8816 which I resolutely don't like.
If 'A' is 8816, pls, throw it to garbage heh

Mix B is very different to A, not in terms of how many $$$$ differences, but 100 times better, it's alive, although not perfect.

Thx of being not lazy to do bring that to GS.

BTW which bass did you use?
Also, vocal mic and pre?
Old 23rd October 2007
  #12
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Donny's Avatar
 

The difference is obvious. B is the Neve as you can hear the tranny working. I agree with GYang the difference is not quantifiable in $$$$ but it certainly sounds much better.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #13
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A440's Avatar
Really liked the song and the singer, and much preferred mix B. It sounded sweeter and there was much more depth of field to everything, as well as a better defined bottom end. I think B is the Neve.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #14
Mgr
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Mgr's Avatar
 

A. More high defined, maybe a little bit more transparent too.. general feel is more metalic, more sparkle.

B. Sound less A, more round maybe, hi's soften and blended, but a little bit less transparent too.

I dont know wich one i prefer tough both mixes are good

Thx for the samples
Old 23rd October 2007
  #15
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post
Mix B is very different to A, not in terms of how many $$$$ differences, but 100 times better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny View Post
I agree with GYang the difference is not quantifiable in $$$$ but it certainly sounds much better.
Ok!! Please guys how mix B can be 100 times much better!! that is ridiculous!! here I sent the link to some friends that are super pro mixers..

Some Prefere B, others A...but the only thing they agreed is that is just a tiny difference....

They say that you can make this difference with a plug in at the master fader or with an analog EQ.....

The question is...how much better can be then a box like the Nicerizer, SPL Mix dream, API 8500A or Shadow hills?

I consider 10% of improvement is alot...but here I think you can not even say that!!

Anyway I prefer B.....just by a little.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #16
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post
Mix B is very different to A, not in terms of how many $$$$ differences, but 100 times better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny View Post
I agree with GYang the difference is not quantifiable in $$$$ but it certainly sounds much better.
Ok!! Please guys how mix B can be 100 times much better!! that is ridiculous!! here I sent the link to some friends that are super pro mixers..

Some Prefere B, others A...but the only thing they agreed is that is just a tiny difference....

They say that you can make this difference with a plug in at the master fader or with an analog EQ.....

The question is...how much better can be then a box like the Nicerizer, SPL Mix dream, API 8200A or Shadow hills?

I consider 10% of improvement is alot...but I think you can not even say that!!

Anyway I prefer B.....just by a little.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #17
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Ya know guys...
If B turns out to be ITB, a lot of you will have to rethink your comments. heh
Old 23rd October 2007
  #18
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

Wow. What a tiny, tiny difference. B sounds a hair wider at the beginning of the tune with the hard panned vocals. I don't know that I'd even be able to pick which was the Neve. FWIW, I've used this box before, and was equally unimpressed then as well. Not that it isn't a cool idea, but I just don't hear a $3000 difference. Maybe if I had every single piece of gear I could ever want and still had 3K left over I might get an 8816. But then again, I'd probably just get a new TV.

It seems like the method most of you guys are using is "I like B better, so it must be the Neve". Like Tony said...
Old 23rd October 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 

First I thought I must be really an idiot because a couldn't hear all these dramatic differences a lot of you seems to hear. But after reading some posts later I have the heart to say that I prefer A... vocals are more upfront, the rooms and spaces sound clearer (wider?) to me... well just a tiny, tiny little bit :-)

Interesting test (and reaktions heh), thanks Vato for doing this!

Andreas
Old 23rd October 2007
  #20
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
Ok!! Please guys how mix B can be 100 times much better!!
You know it's same like saying that mix 1 is 3000$ or 36 Euro better than mix 2.
If we consider 1 unit of difference like small subtle nunce and each subtle nuances is worth to be noticed, than might be that 100 times small nuance makes quite a difference.
I can even understand some people who like A more than B for some obvious sonical characteristics that prevail in mix A.
What is hard to believe that some posters DIDN'T hear the difference or that the difference is so small that it's not worth mention.
If we (humans) differ so much in perception of sound than all these debates on GS about which pre, mic, monitor is better really have no sense.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #21
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alexstringer's Avatar
 

If sound engineers or hobbyists on this forum don't make a difference, the consumer who will buy the Cd won't even know there could be a difference.
Conclusion: Save yourselves $3K, you won't sell more CD's because of this box.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #22
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The Listener's Avatar
Ok, I'll chime in once again - since I was also interested in getting one 8816 or Mixdream or Nicerizer, ot whatever - I guess I will rather save for some nice little console - maybe TOFT ATB - since I adore those EQs I have in ATC-2...

Ok - B sounds much better to me - it has more low-mid roundness - it is more coherent and overall nicer - so I guess it is ITB

BTW - I also re-listened to the previous A - B test and I still prefer the B version that was revealed to be ITB - it is more round and has more space to it - at least this is how I hear it on my big monitors - JBL 4430 - and they don't take any clouding or decreasing of impact, transients, highs, etc. well...
So if B here is Neve I would be surprised...
Old 23rd October 2007
  #23
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas G View Post
First I thought I must be really an idiot because a couldn't hear all these dramatic differences a lot of you seems to hear.
Andreas
Well is not that! you are right! and some will hate me for saying this:

The sitution is that may guys here are trying to say ..wow I am such a higheder ...this is a huuuuge diference!!...is dramatic can you hear that!!!..very funny!!


Well myself and many others can hear a bit of difference between A and B!
Some prefer A others B...

The point is that there is not a huge difference!...not for me and others a and not $3000 plus difference to me!

The question is ....there is a summing box that can really deliver a totally noticeble sonic improvement and difference that nobody can really argue about???

I think Vato made a great thread!! whatever is A or B if you like better your Neve...great for you!
Old 23rd October 2007
  #24
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syra's Avatar
The difference is obvious between the 2 sound files. I can hear them on my crappy $100 sony stereo system... B has the sonic signature color of a Neve. If for whatever reason B is ITB maybe the 8816 sounds different.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
A is a little more forward in the middle, not as well balanced, not as well blended.

B is a better overall balance and melding, smoother and softer, but a little less immediate.

It would sure be nice to hear the .wav files.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #26
Gear addict
 

I'd say b is probably the 8816. Seems a little less crispy... if it is b... there are cheaper ways to get that effect.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #27
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang View Post
I can even understand some people who like A more than B for some obvious sonical characteristics that prevail in mix A.
What is hard to believe that some posters DIDN'T hear the difference or that the difference is so small that it's not worth mention.
If we (humans) differ so much in perception of sound than all these debates on GS about which pre, mic, monitor is better really have no sense.
Yes! you are right about it!

But Dear Gyang....you know well the difference is so clear and the money is so worth it when you hear a cheep preamp or a cheap mic against a great High end mic or pre! there is a nother level of improvent!

there is a real big difference!!

Now for many of us $3000 plus is not worth it o does not do too much to the sound......I prefer B ..but I do not put $3000 on that! I rather buy another piece of gear that will have a bigger impact on my mix!!
Old 23rd October 2007
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
I don't know that I'd even be able to pick which was the Neve.
Try it with headphones. B is much rounder and softer.

I'd still like to know if its the summing that is making the difference or just the output transformer. For me thats the real question. Any chance you can pass the ITB mix through 2 channels of the 8816 and back to the DAW?
Old 23rd October 2007
  #29
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The Listener's Avatar
I'm becoming sure that B is ITB AND better
What kind of DA converters do you use - what's feeding the Neve?
Old 23rd October 2007
  #30
I prefer B by a little... very, very little.
Maybe if you had sent 16 ch out of your DAW into the 3316, the differences where more substantial.
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