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ITB vs. OTB FINALLY A COMPARISON Studio Monitors
Old 17th August 2007
  #1
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indie's Avatar
 

ITB vs. OTB FINALLY A COMPARISON

Ok, so here we go. I did the absolute best I could trying to make an ITB rock mix sound right to me.
One of these mixes is mixed stemmed out 12 channels to my Midas via Radar24 converters, using my outboard -- eq, compression...TG1, La3a, C1 on mix buss etc. Back to 2 channels of Radar24.

The other, is mixed completely in PT, coming out spdif 2 channels, through 2 Radar24 DA converters, clocked via Radar24, into 2 channels of Midas through TG1 and C1 back to Radar24 converters.

Both have some Massey limiter afterwards. These are just 25 second clips.

Which do you like better??? And which is which???
Old 17th August 2007
  #2
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JohnnyTonk's Avatar
 

I like 1 best...
Old 17th August 2007
  #3
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indie's Avatar
 

OH...be aware that one is ever so slightly louder than the other...adjust if you will.
Old 17th August 2007
  #4
i think i prefer 1 the most too, it seemed more open and big. number 2 had more exagerrated punchy transients on the kick and snare, which sounded a little weird to me. I couldnt tell a difference at all until the band kicked in, the intros i doubt i could tell them apart, but thats why im not a pro.

although in fairness, if 2 ends up being the ITB example, which i bet is likely, id still be satisfied with it. I probably wouldnt even notice the transient thing i did if i had been listening for differences. Its the type of thing that probably would get lost in teh suffle of listening on different monitors/stereos.

does OTB sound better? probably, but is it cost/time effective for me as a broke musician? nope.
Old 17th August 2007
  #5
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Brian Whitten's Avatar
 

i like #1 best, the second one has a weird vocal edit, the reverb does not trail off, that's what I heard.
Old 17th August 2007
  #6
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I like 1 the best; you do have to lower the volume on 2 to really compare. The low end is better on 1; I'd call it thicker. However, actually a very big however, is the improvement on 1 enough to justify a significantly larger investment to play it for the average listener that won't get it at all?

No Way
Old 17th August 2007
  #7
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Osumosan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyTonk View Post
I like 1 best...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Whitten View Post
i like #1 best,
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
I like 1 the best;
...better. There are only two.

Sorry. Had to say it.

#2 is "warmer" to me which is what I prefer ... these days
Old 17th August 2007
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

I agree with the above. #1

IMO the drums sounds better in #1 which sealed it for me.
Old 17th August 2007
  #9
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Daniel Antix's Avatar
i prefer the band in number 1 but the vocal eq in number 2... but i like the reverb on the vocals better in number 1.
Old 17th August 2007
  #10
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Daniel Antix's Avatar
damn you i wanna hear the rest of the song now it's stuck in my head.
Old 17th August 2007
  #11
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Good job! Do you use pt Hd or Le?
Old 17th August 2007
  #12
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blaugruen7's Avatar
blur 2 is a bit brighter.
i like it more.

just a question:
with a bit of eqing can one sound like the other?
Old 17th August 2007
  #13
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BigAl's Avatar
 

2 is OTB
Old 17th August 2007
  #14
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Mr. Quimper's Avatar
 

#1 by far.

It's much warmer and present, and the frequencies feel like they're blending together well, whereas #2 seems harsh and brittle and more disjointed.

Also, as has already been mentioned, the abrupt cut-off of the intro vocal release on #2 starts the whole thing off on a negative, so that doesn't help any.



If #1 is OTB, which I'm guessing, I think I might cry. haha As I'm still a youngster just starting into the audio game, I'm completely weaned on the box, so this might make me at least consider exploring OTB later in my life.

That said, I have to feel that anyone can make a great mix in either situation if they're really comfortable in the environment. Given your intro statement, it seems you're more comfortable working OTB, so that's naturally going to translate into your ITB mix. Granted, I haven't mixed OTB, but I find it hard to swallow that there are any inherent advantages to either approach. You are crafting the mix - your gear doesn't mix for you (not yet anyway, thankfully!) A great artist should be able to make great work in any situation he/she is handed and should be able to overcome limitations, not make excuses w/ them. (I'm just making a general statement - not directing it at you personally!)
Old 17th August 2007
  #15
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superburtm's Avatar
 

#1 sounded more open and ballsythumbsup But I must add that I am listening to horrible computer spkrs at home.
Old 17th August 2007
  #16
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Bob Yordan's Avatar
Smile

I like the coloring of #2 sounded smoother.


But I listened to both samples via extra cheap phones on my work PC.

Old 17th August 2007
  #17
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dizzy dog's Avatar
 

I like 1 best but I can't say which is OTB.
Old 17th August 2007
  #18
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Another for number 1, nice energy ...
Old 17th August 2007
  #19
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miqer's Avatar
 

1

#1 sounds a bit better to me!

Mix 2 has a brighter EQ on the vox... that sounds to my ears a big ugly even. It might be over compression that brings out the high ssssss... (Is that a digital or analog one?!) Needs a slight D-esser I would think...
Om mix #1 it is a bit better, but also has the distorted 's'-es!


We should all add what kind of monitors we listen on For more slutty fun.

Me: Genelec

ciaow,
M.
Old 17th August 2007
  #20
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van Overhalen's Avatar
 

I say #1 is OTB.
Like it way better than #2.
The hi hat is smeared like hell with #2.
Sounds just like plug in compression to me.
Old 17th August 2007
  #21
Gear Addict
 

2 is a bit brighter. I ran it through the Match EQ in Logic, usinig 1 as the template, and then differences became too small to really matter. #1 still sounded just a touch smoother, but the difference was small enough that only someone who has spent a lot of time with the track would notice if you crossfaded between both versions...hmmm...good idea! I'm going to do just that, and post back in a bit.
Old 17th August 2007
  #22
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The Listener's Avatar
The #2 is what I would like to achieve ITB, but I am 1000% shure it is OTB.

If #2 is not OTB, than I will stop dreaming of going OTB someday...

#1 has this contemporary harshness that I detest, sort of plastikkkness that is unlistenable at high volumes (I have a privilege of listening at concert levels on JBL4430) and #2 can be listened to at such high levels without ears bleeding...

No.2 is better, No.2 is OTB!
Old 17th August 2007
  #23
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UnDeFiNeD's Avatar
 

Mix nr1 is the best, hands down.

Wich one is OTB or ITB shouldn't matter, they are both achivable with both tools and aren't a fair A/B comparison, just 2 different mixes.

I used Dynaudio BM5's
Old 17th August 2007
  #24
Gear Addict
 

Well, I proved myself wrong. The guitars in 1 just sound smoother than 2, even after EQ (which got the vox just about equal).
Old 17th August 2007
  #25
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Slaytex's Avatar
 

#1 as well.
A little more cohesivness/glue and everything has it's own place.
Old 17th August 2007
  #26
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Just for fun, here's blur#2 after Match EQ
Attached Files

Blur 2 Match EQ.wav (4.37 MB, 946 views)

Old 17th August 2007
  #27
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blaugruen7's Avatar
that is cool.

that sounds really more identical than before.

when you would actually now match the volume of each clips it would be even closer.

funny times!!!
Old 17th August 2007
  #28
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The Listener's Avatar
Obviously people like modern agressive stuff. Should I adjust my preferencess?

No.1 is slightly louder - adjust levels for #2 playback.

Complex accented hits are the most obvious giveaway for me - like entrance of the drums, bass and everything after the intro - in #1 it sounds like typical ITB grab in #2 it is cultivated more analog... The hit is more pleasant, when listened loudly it has more impact in a good way... #1 sounds loud, but a little harsh and the impact is (for my ears at least) typical for ITB summing & compression.

If I am wrong I have to seriously adjust my analytical apparatus.
Old 17th August 2007
  #29
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UnDeFiNeD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Just for fun, here's blur#2 after Match EQ
Hehe, nice job but Nr1 still sounds way more alive than Nr2Match (after carefull level matching of course).
Old 17th August 2007
  #30
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigsawlogic View Post
Just for fun, here's blur#2 after Match EQ
Am I hearing totally differently from you guys? Is sounds even warmer and more different from "1 than before (but too much) - did you apply dither at the end? It sounds like you lost some high frequency information in the process.
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