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ITB vs. OTB FINALLY A COMPARISON Studio Monitors
Old 17th August 2007
  #31
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UnDeFiNeD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Am I hearing totally differently from you guys?
What are u using for monitoring? I'm deliberatly running them on nearfields(BM5's), since full-range speakers are often to far away in terms of sound from a consumers perspective. I want to hear how the mixes sort in the midrange wich are the most important freq bands, the rest is easy...heh
Old 17th August 2007
  #32
Gear Head
 

mix1 is more distorted and has a very crispy mid-range.

mix2 is a more comfortable listen, but i suppose that isn't the point of this particular song (not big on this style).
in mix2 the hihat seems to have been cut in half by a multiband compressor...

My guess is mix1 is otb, basically because hardware multibands are rare...
Old 17th August 2007
  #33
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fastlane's Avatar
 

Just had a very quick listen.

I think 2 is OTB and 1 is ITB. But to be honest I still prefer 1.
Old 17th August 2007
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnDeFiNeD View Post
What are u using for monitoring? I'm deliberatly running them on nearfields(BM5's), since full-range speakers are often to far away in terms of sound from a consumers perspective. I want to hear how the mixes sort in the midrange wich are the most important freq bands, the rest is easy...heh
JBL 4430 mains, Avantone Mixcubes, Audio-technica ATH-M40fs headphones.
JBL show the real big picture - expose plastic timbre quality (those damn horns..) Auratones, oops Avantones expose midrange warmth vs. lack of it and too obvious grittines (some call it presence or clarity - but it is not), the headphones expose more room information in #2 (esp.vocal) and some hiss (in #2) which should be the most idiot-proof giveaway.

If I am wrong I am at least wrong BIG TIME,
Old 17th August 2007
  #35
LOL
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ITB or OTB ???
Who cares ?
Both are squashed to death
No dynamics !
Old 17th August 2007
  #36
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The Listener's Avatar
I just wanted to say - If I was the mixer, I would compress the #2 less and after mastering (where they would compress and limit it better) it would sound much nicer than #1 in the same process... I would almost bet...
Old 17th August 2007
  #37
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My guess is #1 = ITB, #2 = OTB. Unless some form of tape emulation/saturation has been applied to #2 and not #1.
Old 17th August 2007
  #38
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#1 have smoother transients and the sound is more consistent.


so u passed your mix ITB mix thru Chandler TG1?
Old 17th August 2007
  #39
LK7
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Both are too squashed for my taste. 2 is better(less digital crunchiness).
Don't know if that makes it the otb mix or not.
Neither mix is really in the box if you rerecorded both of them.
Old 17th August 2007
  #40
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I'm going for #2 as being OTB because that's what it sounds like to me.

I prefer the first one though.
Old 17th August 2007
  #41
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so you said that even the itb was passed outboard to the tg1 and the c2?

i would like to hear the results
Old 17th August 2007
  #42
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Did anyone notice the panorama differences?

At 13sec the floortom is on the left side in example 2 and on the right side in example 1. It sems that something's different in the guitar panning also.

I prefer 1 by the way. Has better mid definition which makes the guitar sound more upfront.
But still I'd like to know why things are panned differently?
Old 17th August 2007
  #43
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I prefer #2... Seems smoother overall... Plus Better EQ quality in the voice in the Vrs.
Old 17th August 2007
  #44
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Hey Everybody,
I'm glad there are so many comments about this...it's very interesting for sure!

A little background with it: I first mixed this song ITB while trying to finish a couple of projects in a timely manner, so after pulling up the tracks, I felt this song could work ITB.
The band had no idea I was switching to ITB -- I don't think they care as long is it rocks --. But after submitting 2 itb mixes to them, the feeling was it doesn't have the same 'thing' going on....good, but not the same. SO, I remixed it on the board stemmed out and everyone was happy.
I wasn't trying to mix it EXACTLY the same between the 2, just make it sound good.

The ITB mix was done when I was using the URS Channel Strip demo...that thing is slammin.


Also, I agree these 2 are a little squished...I'm defintely no mastering guy, I just put on a little Massey to raise levels to commercial comparisons for the band...and to see how it would stand up to that type of thing.
I'll try to find some time to post the clips with no limiter, if you guys want.

All will be revealed today about which is which.
Thanks.
Old 17th August 2007
  #45
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so which one is the OTB ?

Thanks
Old 17th August 2007
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indie View Post
All will be revealed today about which is which.
Thanks.
please give us the version without the limiter first and let people guess.
Old 17th August 2007
  #47
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osumosan View Post
...better. There are only two.

Sorry. Had to say it.

#2 is "warmer" to me which is what I prefer ... these days
sEEMS #1 IS THE BEST but it can be easily ITB heh
Old 17th August 2007
  #48
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indie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
please give us the version without the limiter first and let people guess.
Ok, it will be a little later today...


Also, someone asked if the ITB mix was HD or LE. I mixed it on my macbook with LE.
Old 17th August 2007
  #49
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firby's Avatar
 

I listened on ety er4 earphones off of a thinkpad at work. Its really hard for me to hear much difference here. I think that I like 2 better so I hope its out of the box cuz I mix OTB and hence wish to "Win".

Certainly a testament to ITB mixing that I could not tell much difference. Maybe you whizzbang computer nerds are on to something. Did you use a control surface on the ITB mix or did you automate by hand with a mouse ? Come on, tell us your process... please ?
Old 17th August 2007
  #50
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MeSoHornplayer's Avatar
 

You know, digi is doing a similar experiment. I scored six out of seven... wrong.

Digidesign | News | Articles & User Stories | Pro Tools vs. Analog Console Mixing
Old 17th August 2007
  #51
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i don't know which is which but there is a huge difference. 1 sounds better to me, lots more low mid and fuller sounding (gells together better) but you must be able to get this same thing on 2?? definitely seems you know what you're doing anyways, nice track, good mix (number 1 anyways!)
Old 17th August 2007
  #52
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ok, here's the deal....
I checked the files without masey limiter, and there's a BIG level difference between the 2 mixes. I think it would add much confusion and be slanted towards the louder one.

The way it is now, they're fairly close in volume. And the Massey is only taking off about 2db MAX on peaks.

So, come on people...which is which. I'll reveal today.
Old 17th August 2007
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnDeFiNeD View Post
Hehe, nice job but Nr1 still sounds way more alive than Nr2Match (after carefull level matching of course).
I agree with you. The idea was to remove spectral differences, and see what other variables still remained. And to me, #2 still sounds like #1 dipped in a mildly unpleasant grit.

I'm guessing #1 is OTB, due to it's comparative smoothness.
Old 17th August 2007
  #54
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Don't know which is which, I liked #2 better. I'm terrible at those tests too. I tend to try to listen for things that I think should be there ITB vs. OTB. So, that tends to make you make wrong decisions.


later,

m
Old 17th August 2007
  #55
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Kris's Avatar
Both sounded good but I think #1 is the OTB.
Old 17th August 2007
  #56
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#1.

But I should really get one of those new blue sky computer speakers. What I have now, even though I can tell a difference here, really rolls off the highs (the speakers, they don't even have seperate tweeters ).
Old 17th August 2007
  #57
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#1.

But I suspect the test is flawed somehow. One giveaway is the first cymbal crash when the drums come in... it's panned to the left on #2.
Old 17th August 2007
  #58
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UnDeFiNeD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings View Post
#1.

But I suspect the test is flawed somehow. One giveaway is the first cymbal crash when the drums come in... it's panned to the left on #2.
Tests like these are allways flawed, I've always been told that the only way to do a true A/B test is to do a test, change one component and test again. Since we are talking here about different comps, eq's, reverbs, summing, levels and even panning...this is extremely far from an remotely correct A/B test.
And so whatever the outcome is, it won't say the least bit about the ITB vs. OTB sonic differences, not even close.It will just show us wich mix of the two we like best, regardless how it's made.

Pzz
Old 17th August 2007
  #59
Alo
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Sorry, but I have to jump in and say that this test is kind of (totally?) flawed.

What are we testing here? In the box summing vs. analog summing? There are far too many variables in the equation for that.

The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that one specific engineer may be able to get a better mix using his software vs. his hardware or vice versa. If he set everything on his analog gear exactly as it was set on the digital gear, you might be able to say that X mixing board's EQ had a different effect from X EQ plug-in, etc., but again, only specific, not global gear comparison conclusions can be made.

The fact that one mix was done after the other skews it further - upon making the second mix, the engineer may have learned from the first attempt or he may have been fatigued, either way affects the results.

This is a very useful test for the original poster, we should all do this kind of experiment to see which way works best for us on our particular gear, but I don't think this is an effective universal ITB vs. OTB comparison.

btw, Hi! 1st post, hope I didn't make any enemies!
Old 17th August 2007
  #60
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This is true. The title 'finally a comparison' is misleading as the OP now mentions it wasn't really a 'test', just 2 different mixes done 2 different ways.

Really should have titled it as such....maybe still fun, but certainly not a true final ITB vs. OTB comparison.
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