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Digital Limiter Quality Test
Old 2nd May 2019
  #121
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I used Span and Reaper freq analyser.
From my analyse....


Ozone 8 adds a lot of distortion.

Stealth Limiter ads distortion.

Pro-L2 ads a distortion comparable to Ozone 8.




Kuassa - adds crazy low volume spectrum hi freq noise...increasing up to 20 000 hz. strange ! but this noise is most under -140 db so it's impossible to hear especially at texture set up to 0.50ms +++
why this limiter is really problematic ? seems really transparent beside that quiet noise area. I dont understand what is problem witth that limiter.



Tdr Limiter 6 GE seems not bad.
Acon Digital seems not bad.
Old 2nd May 2019
  #122
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johannburkard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTech1 View Post
I used Span and Reaper freq analyser.
From my analyse....


Ozone 8 adds a lot of distortion.
Try IRC IV in Classic or Modern mode with "character" (release) at 10.
Old 2nd May 2019
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Try IRC IV in Classic or Modern mode with "character" (release) at 10.
yes indeed. ozone 8 irc 4 classic and modern is amazing but not depending by character setting. it's depends of peak limiting - disabled or enabled. is amazing when true peak is disabled. when enabled lots of crap starts happening. how i remember
trupe peak disabled was miracle for one of other modes too.


what about that kuassa 2 ? i tested this a lot. depending of texture level (+0.50ms) this limiter creates only very low noises up to -150 db which cant be hearead. it seems nice. why that noises is problem ? on my ear from beginning this limiter at proper settings was more transparent than most competition. i tested it with that knee and attack /relase settings. at 4x oversampling. not only this limter created almost no aliasing but cpu was impressive compared to other distortion generators limiters xd only one problem which i heared is by moving texture knob i hear some phase changes a little bit in audio. is this what happening ?
Old 2nd May 2019
  #124
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTech1 View Post
Kuassa - adds crazy low volume spectrum hi freq noise...increasing up to 20 000 hz. strange ! but this noise is most under -140 db so it's impossible to hear especially at texture set up to 0.50ms +++
why this limiter is really problematic ? seems really transparent beside that quiet noise area. I dont understand what is problem witth that limiter.
That sounds like it might be noise shaped dither to 24 bit.

Alistair
Old 2nd May 2019
  #125
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zmix's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielbest1 View Post
Your way of saying things is so pedantic, why?

Daniel.
Scientific methodology, engineering, and problem solving require an understanding of the underlying principles of operation. Often the concepts involved are not familiar to the lay person, and seem esoteric. When someone, such as an engineer, who is presumed to understand these principles avoids addressing questions or opposing viewpoints by obfuscating or deflecting, the questioner might assume that they have not been clear enough, and thus will attempt to provide more specific details. I suppose that to an outsider this may look "pedantic" but despite the era we're living in, I believe that facts still matter, and I think that solipsistic obfuscators and bull****ters should be held accountable for the statements that they make.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Last edited by zmix; 10th May 2019 at 02:17 PM..
Old 2nd May 2019
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
That sounds like it might be noise shaped dither to 24 bit.

Alistair
Ok i uploaded two files.

first is dry sine wave.


second is kuassa 2 enabled.


what is conclusion ?
dither is disabled.

johannburkard described it in own as clipping. it is really what happening here ? look at this wave. these changes happening in area which cant be heared (!)


by increasing volume this region of noise not goin up by killing dynamic range. so my conclusion this is not clipping at all.
Attached Thumbnails
Digital Limiter Quality Test-bypass-1.jpg   Digital Limiter Quality Test-bypass-1-wet-.jpg  
Old 2nd May 2019
  #127
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTech1 View Post
Ok i uploaded two files.

first is dry sine wave.


second is kuassa 2 enabled.


what is conclusion ?
dither is disabled.
It looks like dither. Maybe the dither on/off button is broken? Are there any dither settings in the plugin? For instance to 16 bit? See how that looks like. If it is the same but just higher in volume (48dB louder probably) then it is probably dither. Are there any noise shaping settings? You could also try changing those and see what comes out of the plugin.


Alistair
Old 2nd May 2019
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
It looks like dither. Maybe the dither on/off button is broken? Are there any dither settings in the plugin? For instance to 16 bit? See how that looks like. If it is the same but just higher in volume (48dB louder probably) then it is probably dither. Are there any noise shaping settings? You could also try changing those and see what comes out of the plugin.


Alistair
on my test looks like there is no difference between enabled and disabled dither 24...spectrum looks the same (!)

difference in dynamic range occurs only when i change enabled dither into 8bit. on 8bit finally dynamic range decrease. on 16 bit dither is no difference between dynamic range of 24 on/off dither.

so my conclusion are good from begin....kratos maximizer 2 is goood limiter very good. except that dither error ?

it looks like dither works all the time (?) shape changes works on 24 and 8 bit yes. on 16 bit looks same as on 24 bit.
Old 2nd May 2019
  #129
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johannburkard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by XTech1 View Post
johannburkard described it in own as clipping. it is really what happening here ? look at this wave. these changes happening in area which cant be heared (!)
All I'm seeing on your screenshots is dither noise (with some rather smooth shaping), but did you do a 10 dB volume jump? Is the limiter actually limiting anything?

Dithering is another topic.
Old 6th May 2019
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
All I'm seeing on your screenshots is dither noise (with some rather smooth shaping), but did you do a 10 dB volume jump? Is the limiter actually limiting anything?

Dithering is another topic.
I see almost none aliasing, distortions when texture parameter is set relatively hi (at least slightly more than minimal volume). It's definitely not clipping when texture param is more than minial value. knob sound a little like knee in compressor i guess so i set it at 0. adaptive value at relase and 0 at relase and voila...it really sound like nice limiter i guess.
Old 6th May 2019
  #131
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johannburkard's Avatar
@ XTech1 I can't give you tips for the Kvassa limiter you're using but with SPAN and the test file in this thread, you can probably find settings that are more or less distorted.
Old 7th May 2019
  #132
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I tested with that wav file. Kratos 2 maximizer seems distortion independently of settings . What a joke.
Old 12th May 2019
  #133
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I decided to test and compare all my limiters - including demos.
In my opinion "by ear" most transparent is Fabfilter Pro-L2 and at second place
Stealth Limiter. Pro-L2 safe most of dynamics in hi registers at second place on this is Stealth Limiter.


at third position i would put
Ozone 8. This limiters settings in some scenarios can bring out some details of tracks in unique super positive way. Ofcource by setting change audio in own way but at same time bringing out details.


these three limiters can deal pretty interesting with medium level of limiting by my ear test.





and with low level of limiting - only couple of db - wery nice are

TDR 6GE - (sound can be very clean and set in way super positive way = by work on dynamics - by modules - for track used with)

Barricade 4 ( this limiter somehow change a sound a little, little bit - in most cases in positive way) but very nicely dealing with low end - dynamics at low end is priority in this limiter which is my concluson on ear - sounds seems smooth and natural somehow dynamics at higher registry is lowered but this gives a feel of glueing effect for track and not changing low registry dynamics at all cost - interesting warm glueing effect ?)



last:
Kratos Maximizer. I tried it with different materials. Dynamics is really somehow killed by this. I noticed even after put this limiter on track - that track sound is somehow changed little even when no limiting is in process.
Sound is changed not in positive way - sounds like stereo (phase issues?) come and transparency of audio is changed a little in degradation way especially at hi freq when lot is happening. hi detail is gone a little bit.
Old 30th May 2019
  #134
Gear Head
 

Sooo... I was thinking about getting Barricade V4 (great value), but this thread left me unsure. By looking at the results I'd say it's not worth it, but.. is it? If it is, isn't it a bit unfair to be spreading such kind of negative analysis without further explanations for the uneducated like me?
Old 31st May 2019
  #135
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johannburkard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinisterbr View Post
If it is, isn't it a bit unfair to be spreading such kind of negative analysis without further explanations for the uneducated like me?
You can come to all kinds of conclusions from the tests in this thread. And people have.

I'm sure you can decide for yourself how important absence of limiting artefacts is to you.
Old 2 days ago
  #136
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I tested this by using Ableton where I put Fab Filter Pro-L2 into master, increased +10dB, true peak at 0dB, and used what the Internet says is the most transparent and cleanest settings for L2 called 'clipper trick' with 'modern' on and this came out. I guess not that clean after all.
Attached Thumbnails
Digital Limiter Quality Test-screenshot-2019-07-15-20.10.02.jpg  
Old 2 days ago
  #137
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And here is the same but with "Safe" mode on. A bit better.
Attached Thumbnails
Digital Limiter Quality Test-screenshot-2019-07-15-20.12.37.jpg  
Old 2 days ago
  #138
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Out of curiosity I also tried the Ozone 8 with IRC VI "Classic" with character at 10 and got this.

Again why do I get boost in the lower range? I have nothing else in the chain.

Edit: I had the wrong size in the specturm plotter thats why. Pictures edited
Attached Thumbnails
Digital Limiter Quality Test-screenshot-2019-07-15-20.06.56.jpg  
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