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BLIND SHOOT OUT - Stam Audio SA-47 vs. Neumann U47 with M7
Old 7th August 2018
  #31
You got an email from us today already.

As far as not ordering, you advertised and took the money with a wait time of 6 weeks. If you could not meet this, you should have told us this because we inquired BEFORE the sale, and you taking our money.

I told the studio owner to email and CHECK FIRST on wait time. Which he did.
You told him 6 weeks. I told him..."yeah...no, expect 3 months."
He said "Damn that's a long time!"
I said "Yeah...supposed to be worth it."
Him "I can wait 3 months."

It's going on 7 months.

You took the order, and the money.

I'm going to leave this alone on GS now, and hope that you get the mic to us as fast as possible.

If all goes well, I will be sure to come back and inform everybody that we did in fact receive our microphone.
Thank you.
Old 7th August 2018 | Show parent
  #32
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
You got an email from us today already.

As far as not ordering, you advertised and took the money with a wait time of 6 weeks. If you could not meet this, you should have told us this because we inquired BEFORE the sale, and you taking our money.

I told the studio owner to email and CHECK FIRST on wait time. Which he did.
You told him 6 weeks. I told him..."yeah...no, expect 3 months."
He said "Damn that's a long time!"
I said "Yeah...supposed to be worth it."
Him "I can wait 3 months."

It's going on 7 months.

You took the order, and the money.

I'm going to leave this alone on GS now, and hope that you get the mic to us as fast as possible.

If all goes well, I will be sure to come back and inform everybody that we did in fact receive our microphone.
Thank you.

Not sure I did
We got over 1.000 emails a day so your best bet is to email [email protected] and put GS Client on the subject line because I have no idea who you are
Thanks
Old 7th August 2018 | Show parent
  #33
PM sent to your GS inbox.
Old 9th August 2018
  #34
$200 more, just because it is in stock? You know how ridiculous that sounds? This is really feeling like you want the buyers only to take the risk, and only manufacture units based on orders up front. At some point though, if you want to go bigtime, you are going to have to make the jump and get some stock, for the same prices, or even cheaper (because they sat on the shelf for a month). And given the high quality and rave reviews you generally get, it seems some real risk on your part with an investment in parts and labor is needed. Get those products in stock, for pete's sakes, and cure this delivery problem that plagues you! Yeah, it's going to cost you more up front. But the long term sales will benefit. Most companies struggle with just trying to come up with a product that sells itself. You already have multiple products that hit home runs! Jeez. What's missing is the investment up front to increase production at this point.
Old 9th August 2018 | Show parent
  #35
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by studioman22 View Post
$200 more, just because it is in stock? You know how ridiculous that sounds? This is really feeling like you want the buyers only to take the risk, and only manufacture units based on orders up front. At some point though, if you want to go bigtime, you are going to have to make the jump and get some stock, for the same prices, or even cheaper (because they sat on the shelf for a month). And given the high quality and rave reviews you generally get, it seems some real risk on your part with an investment in parts and labor is needed. Get those products in stock, for pete's sakes, and cure this delivery problem that plagues you! Yeah, it's going to cost you more up front. But the long term sales will benefit. Most companies struggle with just trying to come up with a product that sells itself. You already have multiple products that hit home runs! Jeez. What's missing is the investment up front to increase production at this point.
You can tell that to the 8.000 folks that have benefited from those 200 USD, for some it makes a big difference, I have clients that are very humble and for them it is a big deal. So excuse me but no, it does not sound ridiculous.

Thanks for the tips on how to run my business, unfortunately getting all products in stock sounds much easier than done and there a thousand things you are leaving outside that equation.

It will happen soon so grab a bargain while you can and if waiting is not your thing then there are other great companies to buy from and much bigger problems in life that saving a few hundred bucks and waiting for a unit to be build.
Old 1st October 2018 | Show parent
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcNuman View Post
Hi roughgear,

thanks for doing the comparsions.
Is the m7 capsule in the u47 all original or was it rescinned or something like that?

Thanks
Marc
Hi Marc,

the capsule of the Neumann had been reskinned by Siegfried Thiersch a couple of years ago.
We also had another Neumann U47 with original M7 in the Shoot-Out but it was obvious that it lacked some bass response due to the old PVC used in those capsules. My full review (comparison between the Neumann U47, the Peluso 2247 LE and the Stam Audio SA-47 will be online at amazona.de in the next couple of weeks!
I'll keep you posted

Cheers from Berlin!
Old 1st October 2018 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

So the 'real Neumann' in this test was actually a reskinned by Thiersch?? How interesting. Jeez.

Well hey, I don't feel so bad now about guessing upside down, do I.
Old 1st October 2018 | Show parent
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
So the 'real Neumann' in this test was actually a reskinned by Thiersch?? How interesting. Jeez.

Well hey, I don't feel so bad now about guessing upside down, do I.
Hi Karloff,

unfortunately the PVC they used at Neumann for the original M7 capsules ages badly and can therefore alter the sound a lot. Especially the bass frequency response suffers on old U47 models with original M7.
The U47 that are in use today are about 50 to almost 70 years old. Most of them needed some service in a way or another and even if not - the sound from one to the other will be very different.
Thiersch worked for many years at Gefell / Neumann and has the reputation of being the best man for the job.
This particular Neumann U47 model is an absolutely amazing mic. Many engineers and authors of mic reviews in Germany know it and love it.
If the Stam get's close to it, i think that's pretty cool.
Old 1st October 2018 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughgear View Post
Hi Karloff,

unfortunately the PVC they used at Neumann for the original M7 capsules ages badly and can therefore alter the sound a lot. Especially the bass frequency response suffers on old U47 models with original M7.
The U47 that are in use today are about 50 to almost 70 years old. Most of them needed some service in a way or another and even if not - the sound from one to the other will be very different.
Thiersch worked for many years at Gefell / Neumann and has the reputation of being the best man for the job.
This particular Neumann U47 model is an absolutely amazing mic. Many engineers and authors of mic reviews in Germany know it and love it.
If the Stam get's close to it, i think that's pretty cool.
With respect, I know all that, only I was thinking I am listening out for a u47 with original Neumann capsule, which to me this is not. For whatever reason I personally haven't loved Thiersch capsules much, although I seem to be pretty alone with that. I know this is his reskin on the Neumann brass, but that no original Neumann does make. But yeah, I guess the original M7's with bass end left in them are pretty much gone now.

In any case, I totally agree about the Stam being pretty cool, or actually rather better than that! I used to have an old Dale M7 in a mic for a while which was nice, but a bit numb. This sounds like Danny has developed it further and made it better than I remember the Dale back then from memory.
Old 4th October 2018 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughgear View Post
SPOILER ALERT!

HERE ARE THE RESULTS

I guess a few of you might be surprised!
Please don't spoil the fun for the others in your comments
The U47 clone had a nice sound. Difficult to tell the difference.
Old 5th October 2018 | Show parent
  #41
Not trying to stir things up, but I have a Stam SA-67 here tonight from our studio. Posting to let everybody know we DID RECEIVE THE MIC.
The mic sounds decent. Good actually.

However...

It has low output, regardless of tube. Tried three in it at work Will do some non-destructive looking under the hood tomorrow. If we cannot get the mic to function, the owner does not want to void warranty, and wishes to send it back.
I am somewhat competent, and would work on the mic to avoid this, if Josh gives the ok. Voided warranty's are no good however.

So, non destructive testing, start with metering PSU.
Does this use the exact same pinout for PSU as a U67?
If not, does anybody know what voltages are supposed to be on what pin?
Any ideas anybody?
Josh?

This is the owner with initial W.E. for reference Josh. So you know who we are.

I can take this down and converse over email if that's better. I'm posting here in case anybody has had this problem sorted it themselves.

For the record, the mic and PSU are well built, nice looking, and contain nice parts. Sux on the wimpy output though. About 1/4 of a WA-47.
Thanks in advance for any help.
John
Old 7th October 2018 | Show parent
  #42
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
Not trying to stir things up, but I have a Stam SA-67 here tonight from our studio. Posting to let everybody know we DID RECEIVE THE MIC.
The mic sounds decent. Good actually.

However...

It has low output, regardless of tube. Tried three in it at work Will do some non-destructive looking under the hood tomorrow. If we cannot get the mic to function, the owner does not want to void warranty, and wishes to send it back.
I am somewhat competent, and would work on the mic to avoid this, if Josh gives the ok. Voided warranty's are no good however.

So, non destructive testing, start with metering PSU.
Does this use the exact same pinout for PSU as a U67?
If not, does anybody know what voltages are supposed to be on what pin?
Any ideas anybody?
Josh?

This is the owner with initial W.E. for reference Josh. So you know who we are.

I can take this down and converse over email if that's better. I'm posting here in case anybody has had this problem sorted it themselves.

For the record, the mic and PSU are well built, nice looking, and contain nice parts. Sux on the wimpy output though. About 1/4 of a WA-47.
Thanks in advance for any help.
John

Hi John

Email me at [email protected] please

It should have a similar output to the SA47, WA47 or any tube mic.

Something must be wrong.

Did you set the PSU to 115V?

Thanks
Old 8th October 2018 | Show parent
  #43
The output of the SA-47 we had for the shoot out was completely normal.
It was actually the hottest of the bunch.
I hope you guys can sort it out.

Here's a video comparing the SA-47 to a Neumann U47 and a Peluso 2247 LE on male vocals:

Old 13th October 2018
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

What preamp did you use on the first series of tests?
Old 15th October 2018 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Head
The Neumann U47 has a smoother tonal and more even dynamic response. Sounds more like a record.
Old 15th October 2018
  #46
Here for the gear
 

We did a shootout at my place with the Stam47, Neumann Badge U47, and a Wunder CM7. After everything was level normalised the wunder and Neumann were quite close, with the Neumann maybe having that little something extra. The Stam came in third... a great mic for the money but we all could could hear it wasn’t in the same class. Although it was voiced similarly, there was a harshness on the top, and a certain quality to the tone that we all associated with cheaper components. They key was being very accurate with level matching, as the stam was significantly hotter than the other two mics, and it was phase reversed.... so go figure.
Old 15th October 2018 | Show parent
  #47
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubertrench View Post
We did a shootout at my place with the Stam47, Neumann Badge U47, and a Wunder CM7. After everything was level normalised the wunder and Neumann were quite close, with the Neumann maybe having that little something extra. The Stam came in third... a great mic for the money but we all could could hear it wasn’t in the same class. Although it was voiced similarly, there was a harshness on the top, and a certain quality to the tone that we all associated with cheaper components. They key was being very accurate with level matching, as the stam was significantly hotter than the other two mics, and it was phase reversed.... so go figure.
If the mic was phase reversed then the test is not valid as it will drastically change the sound on this mic.

The Stam SA47 does not use a single cheaper component either. You might like other mics better but saying it is not in the same class because of cheaper components is incorrect.

I have seven original 47's, the SA47 sounds identical to 4 of them. When I say identical I mean 100% identical where nobody can tell the difference.

Your mic needs to be fixed by the way, please email me at [email protected] so we can organize or help you.

Josh
Old 25th November 2018 | Show parent
  #48
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzin View Post
hmmm ... gotta check my monitors, my headphones, my ears ... if there's sibilance, i can clearly hear more in B not in A.
Bass is much more in B as you can hear on the drums.
both sound good.
Just the same for me, to my ears A is airy and good in all the range, B is very close but do not have that shine, i can not hear sibilance in any of them, maybe B could become sibilant if you equalize to have some more top end... Anyway very close...
Old 25th November 2018
  #49
Here for the gear
By the way i have an SA2A and an SA76 and they both are unbelievable, and i compared to the real ones...for the money i think the Stam 47 is the best choice!
Old 8th January 2019 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Maniac
 

I preferred the Stam 47 over the Neumann in every sound clip in this test.
I just received my Stam47 so can't wait to track some vocals...
Old 14th January 2019
  #51
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I thought the Stam sounded bassier and darker than the U47.

My Peluso doesn't sound that bad! I have a 2247 SE that I put an RCA Red Meanie tube in, as well as a couple of BC Blue capacitors, it's a very smooth and pretty sounding mic. I don't know why I don't use it more.

I wonder if that LE mic has a not so great tube.
Old 5th August 2020 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Nut
 

I chimed in a little late. You cannot judge the quality of a microphone in these tests. I'm 100% sure, that if you make 50 recordings with different people the real Neumanns will mostly sound better. They will be a little bit smoother.
You can hear that in the "Singing loud" example, Crazy... The Neumann remains even and comfortable while the Stam gets a little harsh and resonant. Personally I'm working with the U67 RI and it's always perfect. Never too harsh, always right with every voice.

But... for this money the SA 47 is a good mic. Music matters and the skill of your singer.
Old 6th August 2020 | Show parent
  #53
Company Rep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starstreet View Post
I chimed in a little late. You cannot judge the quality of a microphone in these tests. I'm 100% sure, that if you make 50 recordings with different people the real Neumanns will mostly sound better. They will be a little bit smoother.
You can hear that in the "Singing loud" example, Crazy... The Neumann remains even and comfortable while the Stam gets a little harsh and resonant. Personally I'm working with the U67 RI and it's always perfect. Never too harsh, always right with every voice.

But... for this money the SA 47 is a good mic. Music matters and the skill of your singer.
I don't know about that. Many people prefer my SA-47. Some even sold their 47 and gotten a couple more from me. You can't be 100% sure of that. That's your personal thinking or preference which is perfectly fine.

Do I believe my 47 sounds better than a U47? I would hope not since I try to recreate it. Not improve it. But some say it's a 47 on steroids.

I think you are confusing takes
This version of my 47 was actually darker and fuller than the U47 thus it can't sound harsher. If anything it would sound duller. It has a little less information on the upper Mids.

I have 9 vintage 67's that we test regularly with every 67 I make.

I have made videos about this on Youtube, you can have a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r21RKsk8qo

Enjoy
Old 6th August 2020 | Show parent
  #54
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuanaconda View Post
I don't know about that. Many people prefer my SA-47. Some even sold their 47 and gotten a couple more from me. You can't be 100% sure of that. That's your personal thinking or preference which is perfectly fine.

Do I believe my 47 sounds better than a U47? I would hope not since I try to recreate it. Not improve it. But some say it's a 47 on steroids.

I think you are confusing takes
This version of my 47 was actually darker and fuller than the U47 thus it can't sound harsher. If anything it would sound duller. It has a little less information on the upper Mids.

I have 9 vintage 67's that we test regularly with every 67 I make.

I have made videos about this on Youtube, you can have a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r21RKsk8qo

Enjoy
I would love to test your mics. But there are no shops and it lasts years to get the things I ordered.
Old 7th August 2020 | Show parent
  #55
Yes. When we ordered a mic from Stam, the date got pushed back. And pushed back again.

If you have no deadlines, it could be a viable way to go.
Or you could build one using groupDIY, and a Heisermann capsule. If he's still selling to the market.

Our STAM 67 had a bit more hum, and noise than a Neumann. We added length to the transformer (actually every lead we could) leads, and twisted them for rejection. Also, we redundantly grounded it via the chassis on both jacks (only originally tied at quick lug) and it's quieter now. Little things, but make a pretty big difference when recording vocals, or acoustic gtr.

If you know electronics, you can build these. Or you can get Stam to do it.
They are good mics.
Not here to bash, or stir things up.
Just our experience.
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