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ITB Plate reverb shootout
Old 8th January 2016
  #1
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Beatworld's Avatar
ITB Plate reverb shootout

With all the new reverbs out lately time for a little shoot out.

Simple test.

One aux send instance on the drum bus.
About 30ms pre-delay, about 0.8 sec decay.

One aux send instance on the guitar.
About 3 sec decay.

The 3 reverbs, in no particular order, are:

PSP 2445 (the 244 on both)
Valhalla Plate (Cobalt on both)
LiquidSonics Reverberate2 (M7 plates on both)

Also the dry for reference.
As always shoot outs have limitations.
Hard to match the 3 ... it is what it is

EDIT: For some reason sometimes when a Test gets to about 50secs it seems to start again and doesn't end where it should !!

Each of the files should run to 1:17 (there is an identical fade out on each)
You can see they are all the same size, they all run to 1:17 here.
Don't know what is going on at the GS server.
Attached Files

Reverb test dry.mp3 (2.92 MB, 4392 views)

Reverb test A.mp3 (2.92 MB, 4382 views)

Reverb test B.mp3 (2.92 MB, 4277 views)

Reverb test C.mp3 (2.92 MB, 4335 views)


Last edited by Beatworld; 8th January 2016 at 05:40 AM.. Reason: Odd playback behaviour with test files.
Old 9th January 2016
  #2
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 

My guess: A is Reverberate, B is PSP, C is Valhalla.
Old 10th January 2016
  #3
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison View Post
My guess: A is Reverberate, B is PSP, C is Valhalla.
PM sent with results.
Thanks for taking part.
Old 12th January 2016
  #4
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Thank you for the test.

I haven't used any of the mentioned plugins, but would be it possible to make reverb B more closer to the others? I really dislike reverb B.
Old 12th January 2016
  #5
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp69 View Post
Thank you for the test.

I haven't used any of the mentioned plugins, but would be it possible to make reverb B more closer to the others? I really dislike reverb B.
Well the test is what it is.

Maybe I could make it "closer" but maybe it is the nature of reverb B.
I've tried to match them but each has its own set of controls.
Of course two settings in different reverbs which may appear similar may be different.

I imagine you could do a better job of matching them because I know you have a very good ear.

I will PM you the results so you know what B is at least

Thanks for the feedback.
Old 12th January 2016
  #6
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Maybe you're right - maybe it's the nature of reverb B. I can easily hear some similarities on the other two, so I don't think I could do a better job.

Well done.
Old 15th January 2016
  #7
C : Valhalla

A/B : others.. I don't know.. Haven't used any of them
Old 15th January 2016
  #8
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I would say I like the sound of C best in this case, and from what testing I have done with Valhalla Plate, it seems to have the dark resonance of Cobalt (modeled on the EMT 140).

The apparent level of reverb in A and B sounds higher and they also sound brighter to me, especially on the drums. I haven't used the PSP but I would say:

A: Reverberate
B: PSP
C: Valhalla

I love these comparisons even though I'm not very good at them. Thanks for posting!

Nick
Old 15th January 2016
  #9
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

I'm saying A vallhalla, B 2445, C Reverberate.

A/C could be interchangeable though, since I know I can get a very similar sound to A with reverberate.
Old 17th January 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
Not to knock the shootout, but isn't the PSP Plugin based on an EMT 250, which is an old school digital "plate"? If you wanted to shoot-out more of an apples to apples comparison, you could shoot out the following digital plate algorithms:

UAD EMT250
PSP2445
Valhalla VintageVerb in Sanctuary Mode (loosely based on the EMT 250)

If you wanted to do a "Physical Plate" shootout, you could always look at:

Valhalla Plate
SKNote Verbtone
UAD EMT 140

Don't know much about the LiquidSonics plugin.
Old 17th January 2016
  #11
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Not to knock the shootout, but isn't the PSP Plugin based on an EMT 250, which is an old school digital "plate"? If you wanted to shoot-out more of an apples to apples comparison, you could shoot out the following digital plate algorithms:

UAD EMT250
PSP2445
Valhalla VintageVerb in Sanctuary Mode (loosely based on the EMT 250)

If you wanted to do a "Physical Plate" shootout, you could always look at:

Valhalla Plate
SKNote Verbtone
UAD EMT 140

Don't know much about the LiquidSonics plugin.
All feedback is good

The PSP is based on the EMT 244 and 245.

I've done a shoot out before which included the ERS EMpTY250 and Sanctuary Mode in VVV and some others, that was fun.
B2 v ERS250 v LX480 v Vee3

Not really trying to do an exact Apples to Apples shoot out, just 3 new entrants in the plugin market that all offer plates, albeit from different vintage backgrounds.

cheers
Old 17th January 2016
  #12
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ive never used any of those verbs but i say

A sounds really bad...very tinny and fake sounding
B sounds really nice.....sounds real and professsional
C sounds more lively than B but I like B better.....

still.....with each piece of gear, you can just adjust it to get the right sound....id think this shows that one is better than any other...
Old 19th January 2016
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
If you wanted to do a "Physical Plate" shootout, you could always look at:

Valhalla Plate
SKNote Verbtone
UAD EMT 140
Yes this is a good idea too. I would love to add the new Cupwise "Plates of Legend" Nebula reverbs to the comparison as well (I no longer have Nebula). Some on that thread are saying that these Nebula reverbs are clearly better than Valhalla Plate. I think I was able to get a pretty similar sound dialed in (at least to match one sample), but I'd like to know if POL is really that much better--rather than the "Nebula is real hardware and algos are digital" mentality that seems common on those threads.

Valhalla Plate does not have a separate damping control on it, but the same sound may be achievable through EQ. After all, I guess damping was only used in plates because there was no way to control the decay directly.
Old 19th January 2016
  #14
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfortablynick View Post
Valhalla Plate does not have a separate damping control on it, but the same sound may be achievable through EQ. After all, I guess damping was only used in plates because there was no way to control the decay directly.
The DECAY slider in ValhallaPlate is the Damping control. I call it "DECAY," as my other reverb plugins follow that convention, and the decay range in ValhallaPlate is wider than in physical plates. However, it is a true damping control, in that it adjusts the decay in various frequency ranges, in a nonlinear manner. The different modes had their damping (frequency vs decay) dialed in from different physical plates, over as many settings of the plate damping as we could get.
Old 19th January 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seancostello View Post
The DECAY slider in ValhallaPlate is the Damping control.
Ah, that's good to know. Thanks for the reply, Sean. Makes sense that there's no need for a separate control as some other reverbs have. Yet another testament to the greatness of your design!
Old 19th January 2016
  #16
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seancostello's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfortablynick View Post
Ah, that's good to know. Thanks for the reply, Sean. Makes sense that there's no need for a separate control as some other reverbs have. Yet another testament to the greatness of your design!
I thought about putting a separate Damping control in ValhallaPlate. The problem is, any adjustment of the control would have rapidly gotten the sound into non-plate ranges. All the EMT140s I tested had pretty specific constraints on the RT60 in the high frequencies, and adjusting this would create a plate that has way too long of a high frequency decay.
Old 22nd January 2016
  #17
TNM
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answers?
Old 23rd January 2016
  #18
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
answers?
PM sent
Old 23rd January 2016
  #19
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Alex Niedt's Avatar
 

Answer PM, please?

My initial reactions: "A" is cloudy. "C" sounds better. "B" seems too different from the others to judge fairly.
Old 25th January 2016
  #20
Gear Nut
 

I'm also interested in answers. I like A and C, B is too wet or too mushy
Old 23rd February 2016
  #21
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transverb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld View Post
PM sent
Late to the party... may I have the answers thanks?
Old 23rd February 2016
  #22
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by transverb View Post
Late to the party... may I have the answers thanks?
welcome to the party

PM sent
Old 23rd February 2016
  #23
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

So you know, the PSP 2445 was updated to have modulation depth control now. That is somewhat valuable to this test.
Old 23rd February 2016
  #24
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
So you know, the PSP 2445 was updated to have modulation depth control now. That is somewhat valuable to this test.
I'm guessing you are suggesting that the modulation in the PSP 2445 be wound back
Old 23rd February 2016
  #25
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apartment dog's Avatar
 

Haven't used these reverbs.
I prefer C, than B than A.

Guess;

C is Reverberate cause the decay sounds a bit convolution-like (which can be a good thing)
B I think is Valhalla, reminds me of other Valhalla reverbs character
A is PSP 2445, I can imagine PSP making a less in your face reverb
Old 23rd February 2016
  #26
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Are samples from Verbtone welcome?

I'm releasing the update tonight and I can upload some audio here now.
Old 23rd February 2016
  #27
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintosardo View Post
Are samples from Verbtone welcome?

I'm releasing the update tonight and I can upload some audio here now.
Sure quinto, upload if you like
Old 23rd February 2016
  #28
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I don't have the raw tracks so I'll test it on the full mix.

***EDIT

Here we go! I put Verbtone on the whole mix. A jazz session in a room (which actually is a plate).

A little bit of Hi-pass and Lo-pass. About 2s length. True Stereo mode.

I bypass the reverb at about 1/3 and 2/3, just to get back the cues while listening.
Attached Files

Verbtone_on_mix_230216.mp3 (2.94 MB, 2500 views)


Last edited by quintosardo; 23rd February 2016 at 05:18 PM..
Old 15th March 2017
  #29
Gear Addict
 

Hi!, i think:
A: Valhalla.
B: PSP.
C: Liquidsonics.

PM the results please

Daniel.
Old 8th August 2017
  #30
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Have no clue about which is which, but my preference goes C > A > B
C and A sounded fairly similar, with A being a bit more lush, with a tiny bit more highs, while B sounded almost harsh to me.

Results would be appreciated!
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