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How do we make hiphop more profitable? Studio Headphones
Old 13th March 2014
  #1
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How do we make hiphop more profitable?

Over the past few days, i've ran into some interesting financial quandaries with hiphop.

To start with here's billboards top money earners for 2013
Music's Top 40 Money Makers 2013 | Billboard

a list of 40 artists, all generes and drake and jay-z are the only 2 hiphop artists and combined barely made more than bieber. now yeah jay-z is worth way more than bieber but that list only counts music sales and tours. so it's clear hiphop MUSIC isn't making any money. they get fame with hiphop and make their money elsewhere.

As engineers, i'm blessed to be multi-genre compatible but just today someone literally told me they would rather spend $2,500 to place their video on Worldstar than to pay me a few hundred to mix a couple tracks.

I've been told a dozen times there was no budget for a mixtape project for engineering because "i'm not making any money off this mixtape".

At the same time, artists will spend thousands on weed, videos, shoes and jewelry while looking us engineers and producers in the eye and say they are out of money for the actual music.

How do we get hiphop to generate more money off their music and make better financial decisions, because as engineers/producers, this is our problem too!
Old 13th March 2014
  #2
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boombapdame's Avatar
I'm curious as to who said that they would pay that amount to be on WSHH and furthermore any artist that wants to do Hip Hop nowadays needs to have a realistic approach as in don't approach the art form with that long defunct MTV Cribs mentality.
Old 13th March 2014
  #3
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Artists need to tour more, but I think this comes from building an actual fanbase. And that happens when you put out QUALITY music, and that happens when you create good content, good production, and also pay professionals for good mixing and mastering. HipHop would be a lot different if more modern artists took these steps IMO.
Old 13th March 2014
  #4
Because every 15 minutes there is someone who decides today they will be a engineer, buys a $300 interface & will record for nothing. If it audible, it must have been done right or close enough.

It's not just hip hop either.

You have to stick to your rates. The reverse auction in my city is sooooooo bad.

But usually the "artists" who are like that, I wouldn't put in my discography anyway...
Old 13th March 2014
  #5
Hi,

I think to make it more profitable you've gotta venture off the beaten path and offer more. This requires you to have more involvement in the growth of the artist as well. Just as these groups in the current climate now have to be a "total package" to gain fans, and build a buzz - the production / engineering department need to follow suit.

Example: Instead of just selling just your mixing services, throw some social networking promo in with it as well....?

Something along those lines.
Old 13th March 2014
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven E. View Post
Hi,

I think to make it more profitable you've gotta venture off the beaten path and offer more. This requires you to have more involvement in the growth of the artist as well. Just as these groups in the current climate now have to be a "total package" to gain fans, and build a buzz - the production / engineering department need to follow suit.

Example: Instead of just selling just your mixing services, throw some social networking promo in with it as well....?

Something along those lines.
that's a great business model. i do incorporate more than just mixing to my services. my regular clients get some consulting when they have questions, i tend to put my more serious artists videos on my website and retweet them.

However, they have to be buying mixes or masters, which again is the fundamental problem.
Old 13th March 2014
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoLeoLeo View Post
Because every 15 minutes there is someone who decides today they will be a engineer
Don't forget that every 15 minutes, you also have another handful of rappers and beatmakers. When the barrier for entry is low (or nonexistent), you end up with overflow.
Old 13th March 2014
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
that's a great business model. i do incorporate more than just mixing to my services. my regular clients get some consulting when they have questions, i tend to put my more serious artists videos on my website and retweet them.

However, they have to be buying mixes or masters, which again is the fundamental problem.
Think "Package deal" my friend. Instead of the promo being an afterthought, make it the central point of the package.

You may not be able to sell the services but the dream always sells...
Old 13th March 2014
  #9
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haha ok we can trick them into spending on an engineer but we still need THEM to make money.
Old 13th March 2014
  #10
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(Great thread btw..I had a similar one a month ago but it got moved to the Gear Free Zone for some reason and unfortunately disaffected because of less viewed traffic..)

I mentioned a similar thing then and believe me its not just Hip-hop but also R&B with a lot of these female singers not wanting to pay and only collaborate (and some wonder why R&B hasn't Soul these day's. .lol) its unfortunately a relentless mentality that isn't changing anything soon amongst most younger newby artist's. They believed by the pursuits of free downloaded music everything including creating the original songs the Producers and Engineers should also be working for Free.

Its an abundance and only getting worse and for those thinking its not affecting their business give it Time it will catch up to a large chunk of their business on the artist side of things lacking revenue sources regarding new recording artist's not having budgets only collaborating. A bandaged solution can't fix it either because its all about ones mentality mainly steaming around new artists.
Old 13th March 2014
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven E. View Post
Think "Package deal" my friend. Instead of the promo being an afterthought, make it the central point of the package.

You may not be able to sell the services but the dream always sells...
I guess it depends on what you want to do. I possibly snobbishly tend to view these "jack of all trades" one stop places as low end - you don't see top artists hiring a mixer who also does video production, or a publicist who dabbles with music on the side.

I understand it's any way to stay afloat at times, but I'd always want to give the impression I'm specialising in a few areas - for me recording, production and mixing which are all closely linked. If I had to do something else on the side (which I've done in the past to support myself) I keep it more separate, so it doesn't change the overall perception.

Offering "complete package" deals can put done people off. Just be aware of that if you're looking at marketing yourself in this way.
Old 13th March 2014
  #12
It's not talent, or the lack thereof, it's the willingness, and again lack thereof, of anyone paying for services what is in question.

I hope all my clients all the very best in their endeavors, & even talk to them about what I've seen about other people's movements that 100% worked for the goal they where trying to achieve. But if you never are in the studio with me bull****tin asking the right questions, you'd never have that conversation. Some guys do book 8 hour sessions and talk to me for half of it. Haha!

But being part of the marketing? No sir!!!!! No way!!! I push buttons. That's it. And do you really want to be a major part of a persons failed dream/plan or the best memory of it that last forever thru the recording, which is your job as a "recording/mix engineer".

And for the all in one deals, with all the time to record, mix, master, shoot video, edit video, upload video, contact blogs, stores, iTunes, pandora, mog, then photoshoots, clothes, looks & locations choosing photos, editing photos, graphic design, I'll stop here cause already when are you gonna sleep? It doesn't add up in the real world unless you have a team. And usually 1 stop shops are ran by 1 guy.
Old 13th March 2014
  #13
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yeah no services that stray from sound engineering.

but i do understand this is now a mentality problem and those are never easy to fix. It just saddens me to see them go in their pockets, hand it all to the weed man, then ask me for a discount.
Old 13th March 2014
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Offering "complete package" deals can put done people off. Just be aware of that if you're looking at marketing yourself in this way.
I can dig it.

Its funny when topics like this come up because most tend to go in circles and complain about this and that instead of coming up with alternatives that address the problem.

The op asked: "How do we get hiphop to generate more money off their music and make better financial decisions" - so I threw an alternative out there.

- Have more involvement in the artist's career. -


Old 13th March 2014
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
yeah no services that stray from sound engineering.

but i do understand this is now a mentality problem and those are never easy to fix. It just saddens me to see them go in their pockets, hand it all to the weed man, then ask me for a discount.
Unfortunately, the weed man and Nike shoes are a few of your direct competitors.

How are you going to add value to these guys in a way that gets them to pay you first?
Old 13th March 2014
  #16
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yeah, i guess there really is no hope
Old 13th March 2014
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
yeah, i guess there really is no hope
No hope "in the box".

Old 13th March 2014
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven E. View Post
I can dig it.

Its funny when topics like this come up because most tend to go in circles and complain about this and that instead of coming up with alternatives that address the problem.

The op asked: "How do we get hiphop to generate more money off their music and make better financial decisions" - so I threw an alternative out there.

- Have more involvement in the artist's career. -


Topics like these dont go in circles. Each person sticks to either 1 of 2 lanes. All in one dealio's or a profession.

I have a roster of about 15 steady clients & always shortlived random clients come and go. @20% recording 60%mixing 20%mastering. Mastering is growing.

So your telling me if I can't get paid for that, I need to put in more time in something I know truly nothing about ; have no vested interest in and expect greater than before results

It's all about a plan. Record mixtape, put on the web, tweet about it, rake in money.
Not a plan...

If you want to start a label, don't be scared, just say so.
Old 13th March 2014
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoLeoLeo View Post
Topics like these dont go in circles. Each person sticks to either 1 of 2 lanes. All in one dealio's or a profession.

I have a roster of about 15 steady clients & always shortlived random clients come and go. @20% recording 60%mixing 20%mastering. Mastering is growing.

So your telling me if I can't get paid for that, I need to put in more time in something I know truly nothing about ; have no vested interest in and expect greater than before results

It's all about a plan. Record mixtape, put on the web, tweet about it, rake in money.
Not a plan...

If you want to start a label, don't be scared, just say so.
You're right. It is all about a plan... If your mixing clients are drying up [not talking about you specifically just referring to the topic at hand] then maybe one should come up with a plan on how to put more time and money into something they know nothing about so they can add value to themselves and then rake in the money...

Technology is driving the home studio into new realms...

Where technology is involved, its never to late to learn something new...

That's all I'm saying.

Old 13th March 2014
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven E. View Post
You're right. It is all about a plan... If your mixing clients are drying up [not talking about you specifically just referring to the topic at hand] then maybe one should come up with a plan on how to put more time and money into something they know nothing about so they can add value to themselves and then rake in the money...

Technology is driving the home studio into new realms...

Where technology is involved, its never to late to learn something new...

That's all I'm saying.

This is true. Most Engineers & Producers have side projects with commercial jingles, T.V. or Radio Commercial ads, video game sound bits and tracks etc. Times have definitely changed and realistically the market for production has become overs saturated regarding Engineering (mixing, processing, editing, mastering music).
Old 13th March 2014
  #21
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No there's plenty of work or a GOOD mix engineer. that's not the issue.

The problem is hiphop not spending money on production and engineering like other genres do. They would rather ball out and expect you to do it free when they're broke.

Like said above, our competition is not each other, its Nike, the dope man, Johnny the Jeweler... We have to make them spend their money on us before those guys. And then get them to make more money.
Old 13th March 2014
  #22
The trick in any genre is to be good enough that your clients are happy to pay for your services. This is not unique to hip hop. Artists recognize the value of a good producer, mixer, or recordist. I'd go so far as to even say that many of them treasure it. Step up your game; it's that simple.

Nothing being pointed out in this thread is specific to rap or rappers. Everyone wants a free lunch.
Old 13th March 2014
  #23
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Free doesn't help business grow because when a producer or Engineer does a service for free its always expected free in the future because that precedence was administrated.
Old 14th March 2014
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
The trick in any genre is to be good enough that your clients are happy to pay for your services. This is not unique to hip hop. Artists recognize the value of a good producer, mixer, or recordist. I'd go so far as to even say that many of them treasure it. Step up your game; it's that simple.

Nothing being pointed out in this thread is specific to rap or rappers. Everyone wants a free lunch.
not sure which convo this was meant for but yes, hiphop is the least profitable mainstream genre, thats math and we aren't talking about engineers making money. we need rappers to make money.
Old 14th March 2014
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
hiphop is the least profitable mainstream genre
Do you have any specific information to back up that claim? A bit of industry bookkeeping or other hard evidence?

And how does one define "least profitable" (and "mainstream genre", for that matter)?

Quote:
we aren't talking about engineers making money. we need rappers to make money.
I thought the whole premise of this thread was about your not getting paid by dudes trying to make mixtapes, because they're too busy spending their dough on shoes and drugs.
Old 16th March 2014
  #26
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Nystagmus's Avatar
1) Do more crossover styles by mixing genres and subgenres even wilder than before.
2) Stop promoting sociopaths, gangsters, crybaby complainers (eminem), sexism, drugs, alcohol, crime, and violence... Instead promote education, individuality, social responsibility, and fights against racism and discrimination, SEVERAL KEY TIPS FROM KRS-ONE and occasionally PUBLIC ENEMY.

3) Stop conforming to each other so much.
4) Go back to what you do best... MUSIC and Rhythms!!!!!

If Hip Hop would just do these, and consider Hip Hop from a DJ instead of Rapper perspective it would experience a veritable renaissance. We don't need more words, we need more beats and funky basslines and smooth chords. Too many lyricists are egotistical.
Old 16th March 2014
  #27
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
it's clear hiphop MUSIC isn't making any money. they get fame with hiphop and make their money elsewhere.
BLACK music --- or more specifically --- Black ARTISTS / faces aren't making any money.

Black artists just get their swagger jacked by other people and those same other people run off and make MILLIONS on top of MILLIONS with stolen and repackaged swagger / style / sound.
Old 17th March 2014
  #28


Beyonce is the sixth highest-paid musician of 2013.
Old 17th March 2014
  #29
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post


Beyonce is the sixth highest-paid musician of 2013.
Beyonce doesn't exactly claim to be Black or African-American, f.y.i.
Old 17th March 2014
  #30
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FyLe ForMatz's Avatar
 

ANYWAYS...

if you wanna get PAID, stay away from Black artists...or replace your Black artists with White artists.

it might sound CRAZY or racist or whatever to say that, but look at the ****ing CHARTS.
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