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Rob Schnapf Ribbon Microphones
Old 4th May 2018
  #2221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Ha
That cleared things up
Old 4th May 2018
  #2222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob S View Post
Ha
That cleared things up
Actually, its a pretty cool mic.

Lots of proximity effect, a very smooth "ballsy" character, but also very "balanced" (if that makes sense).

I don't think anything ever sounded better on Johnny's voice:
YouTube | Susan Sarandon on Johnny Carson
(Hard to tell on YouTube, though.)
To me, its kinda like "audio comfort food".

I like it on Kick & Floor Tom as well.
Old 5th May 2018
  #2223
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob S View Post
the AEA KU4A the RCA BK5 and KU3A are other cardioid ribbons that come to mind.
Been reading about the KU4. Definitely out of my league pricewise @ $4,356.00. AEA calls it their brightest mic, useful for nearfield duties, reduced proximity effect. Damping the rear lobe on the original (KU3A) was achieved by stuffing a labrynth with English cow hair. Had to be English cow hair. Not sure how AEA does it.

Anyway, I agree the world needs more affordable cardioid ribbons.
Old 6th May 2018
  #2224
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rob S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
Been reading about the KU4. Definitely out of my league pricewise @ $4,356.00. AEA calls it their brightest mic, useful for nearfield duties, reduced proximity effect. Damping the rear lobe on the original (KU3A) was achieved by stuffing a labrynth with English cow hair. Had to be English cow hair. Not sure how AEA does it.

Anyway, I agree the world needs more affordable cardioid ribbons.
Yeah I’ve tried this mic.
It’s a awesome recreation of the KU3 (10001)
If I had disposable income I’d buy these.
But **** ain’t like that so alas....

Last edited by rob S; 6th May 2018 at 06:43 PM..
Old 8th May 2018
  #2225
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Hmmm...

I just remembered that RCA had a version of the 77 called the "77DX" which had switchable patterns.
Note that even in the bi-directional setting, it does NOT have a symmetrical pattern:
I've never had the opportunity to use the 77DX, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has.

I don't know which pattern was used for the following 77DX sample, but (assuming the same room and distance), I'd think it was set to the "bi-directional" position (when I listen to it next to the (directional) Shure SM33 sample):
http://www.coutant.org/rca77dx/77dx.mp3
http://www.coutant.org/sm33/shursm33.mp3
Anybody out there know a little more about the 77DX?
.
Old 10th May 2018
  #2226
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rob S's Avatar
Is that just moving the venting around or something?
Old 10th May 2018
  #2227
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Seamus TM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob S View Post
Is that just moving the venting around or something?
Old 10th May 2018
  #2228
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The DX is the only version of a 77 I've personally used and yes, you can feel something substantial moving inside when turning the dial. It's great to have multiple patterns on that thing as well as two hpf settings located on the bottom.
Old 10th May 2018
  #2229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbar View Post
The DX is the only version of a 77 I've personally used and yes, you can feel something substantial moving inside when turning the dial. It's great to have multiple patterns on that thing as well as two hpf settings located on the bottom.
Yep:
"Instead of being open on both sides as in the conventional velocity microphone, the ribbon element in this microphone is coupled to an acoustic labyrinth which forms the body portion of the microphone.

The tube connecting the back of the ribbon to the labyrinth is slotted directly behind the ribbon and fitted with an adjustable shutter to secure various areas of opening.

When the opening is completely closed, the microphone operates as a non-directional pressure microphone; at the wide-open position the microphone becomes bi-directional.

With the proper size opening the pattern becomes a cardioid by virtue of the phase shift which occurs.

Openings smaller or larger than this critical size produce directional patterns with various sized rear lobes."
Read more here:
RCA 77DX
.
Old 11th May 2018
  #2230
Gear Maniac
 

Very Interesting. Love that worn out slot drive selector.
Old 13th May 2018
  #2231
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Just noticed Vintage King has an RCA 77D for $2495. Same as the 77DX in looks and multi pattern function. Built from 1945 to 1955. Someone should snatch that up.
Old 13th May 2018
  #2232
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drBill's Avatar
For that price it should have been recently rebuilt and in beautiful cosmetic condition. I bought one from BradMcG a couple of years ago for $1700 and it was a premium price because it was in really great condition - gone over by clearance kane a couple of years before I bought it. Great mics though. Instant 1940's. For me, a fav for sax sections, drum room, some vocals.
Old 13th May 2018
  #2233
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toledo3's Avatar
 

The 77 doesn’t really sound as good as a 44...

In general, cardioid ribbons can sound a little funky because the only way to achieve that is by keeping sound from reaching one side of the ribbon. Both sides are always live, so you’re getting sound from what is essentially a baffled rear.

IMO, a lot of times just using a good “regular” ribbon, and then putting an actual baffle or blanket up behind it, or even makeshift taping a shop rag or something on the rear can wind up working just as well or better.
Old 13th May 2018
  #2234
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
The 77 doesn’t really sound as good as a 44...

In general, cardioid ribbons can sound a little funky because the only way to achieve that is by keeping sound from reaching one side of the ribbon. Both sides are always live, so you’re getting sound from what is essentially a baffled rear.

IMO, a lot of times just using a good “regular” ribbon, and then putting an actual baffle or blanket up behind it, or even makeshift taping a shop rag or something on the rear can wind up working just as well or better.

I tend to agree with you about fig8 vs. card ribbons. But I think "different" is more appropriate than "better". They are both classics, and certainly hold the same genetic makeup. IMO, nothing sounds like an RCA.
Old 13th May 2018
  #2235
Gear Maniac
 

I suppose its popularity was due to its usefulness in the booming movie industry as a boom mic where gobos would interfere with production. That mechanical baffle on the 77 is indeed funky. Wonder if that wears out and rattles. Still ... won’t be mine. Just putting it out there.
Old 13th May 2018
  #2236
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbo View Post
Just noticed Vintage King has an RCA 77D for $2495. Same as the 77DX in looks and multi pattern function. Built from 1945 to 1955. Someone should snatch that up.
The77D was the last design.

Most folks seem to think it was the best of the 77 series.

Myself, I prefer the Shure SM33 for directional, and the Coles or RCA 44 for bi-directional use.
Old 17th May 2018
  #2237
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rob S's Avatar
Is the SM-33 dark?
Can they handle SPL?
Old 17th May 2018
  #2238
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rob S's Avatar
I’ve been using the AEA N22 and the STAGER mics like crazy.
Never use the Coles anymore
Old 17th May 2018
  #2239
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob S View Post
Is the SM-33 dark?
Many would say that.

...But I don't think they sound at all "muddy" (like a lotta "dark" mics).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob S View Post
Can they handle SPL?
Better than most ribbons.

...But I'd use a windscreen with close-mic'd vocals, or when getting in close on a kick (or anything else "windy").
Old 20th May 2018
  #2240
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Rob, if you were going to record a song with just one guitar (an electric or an acoustic) and vocals (which would be added later) and you only had two channels available on your interface, how would you record the guitar? I’m going to record a song with a lot of finger picking but the picking makes it to hard to double track the guitar.
Old 21st May 2018
  #2241
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rob S's Avatar
I’d record it with a mic
Old 24th May 2018
  #2242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob S View Post
I’d record it with a mic
Darn it, can’t afford a mic so I hoped I could record without one.
Old 31st May 2018
  #2243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renfield74 View Post
Darn it, can’t afford a mic so I hoped I could record without one.
Surely if you take the buzz from the unplugged cable (and use the right converters) you can use plugs to turn it into almost anything. Slate microphone thingy? Waves Kings microphones, thats what those things are for i think.
Old 5th June 2018
  #2244
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BlackWhale's Avatar
 

@rob S
Hi Rob, i have a question about Elliott's effect.
Do you know the effect used on the guitar here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a89OayJ24m0
and here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOW1A_s_1A

I love also the mood in From a Basement album with Don't go Down and Strung Out Again, it's some kind of big fuzz isn't it ?

Thanks
Old 7th June 2018
  #2245
Gear Head
 

Hi Rob,

Love your work on Richard Thompson's Mock Tudor album, still the best sounding record in his rather fantastic sounding catalogue in my opinion. Can you tell us anything about:

- how it was mixed (what console? how long spent?)

- how RT's guitar and vocals were captured (wondering about specific mics)

- 2-buss mix chain/approach

- how you got the incredible room sound on the entire record but so nicely exemplified on Bathsheba Smiles via Dave Mattacks' drums ...

- any other interesting tidbits from the sessions

Thanks much...
Old 8th June 2018
  #2246
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rob S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWhale View Post
@rob S
Hi Rob, i have a question about Elliott's effect.
Do you know the effect used on the guitar here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a89OayJ24m0
and here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyOW1A_s_1A

I love also the mood in From a Basement album with Don't go Down and Strung Out Again, it's some kind of big fuzz isn't it ?

Thanks
That was just the boomerang loop pedal.
Play something capture it you could reverse the loop lay something over that
spin back around forwards again etc.
Pretty simple
Old 8th June 2018
  #2247
Gear Nut
 

Rob = too funny and too cool.
Old 8th June 2018
  #2248
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rob S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by petergreeny View Post
Hi Rob,

Love your work on Richard Thompson's Mock Tudor album, still the best sounding record in his rather fantastic sounding catalogue in my opinion. Can you tell us anything about:

- how it was mixed (what console? how long spent?)

- how RT's guitar and vocals were captured (wondering about specific mics)

- 2-buss mix chain/approach

- how you got the incredible room sound on the entire record but so nicely exemplified on Bathsheba Smiles via Dave Mattacks' drums ...

- any other interesting tidbits from the sessions

Thanks much...
Oh cool thanks
Richard is one of the true unheralded guitar heroes.
Totally idiosyncratic style and super musical.
That record was tracked at Capitol studio B thru I think an 8068.
It is one of the great drum rooms in Los Angeles.
We had two kits set up, one on a riser another on the floor.
Dave mattocks was super easy to record.
He pretty much mixes himself. That allowed for us to be able to use lots of room mics, as he had such a great internal balance.
I think we had a pair of Coles, 47’s, 67’s and an SF12 in the Room.
Recorded to two inch 24tr.
Used a couple of different amps a vibroverb Ampeg Gemini a super reverb and some other stuff I can’t remember. Nothing to crazy. He sounded like him no matter what he played and played thru.
57 67 and experimented with a 609 On the amps.
Acoustic was prolly a 67 or km54.
Vocal was a soundelux U95.
Mixed at sunset sound studio 1 on the custom sunset console.
Prolly smart C1 and a touch of GML on the 2buss.
That’s what I remember.
Old 11th June 2018
  #2249
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob S View Post
Oh cool thanks
Richard is one of the true unheralded guitar heroes.
Totally idiosyncratic style and super musical.
That record was tracked at Capitol studio B thru I think an 8068.
It is one of the great drum rooms in Los Angeles.
We had two kits set up, one on a riser another on the floor.
Dave mattocks was super easy to record.
He pretty much mixes himself. That allowed for us to be able to use lots of room mics, as he had such a great internal balance.
I think we had a pair of Coles, 47’s, 67’s and an SF12 in the Room.
Recorded to two inch 24tr.
Used a couple of different amps a vibroverb Ampeg Gemini a super reverb and some other stuff I can’t remember. Nothing to crazy. He sounded like him no matter what he played and played thru.
57 67 and experimented with a 609 On the amps.
Acoustic was prolly a 67 or km54.
Vocal was a soundelux U95.
Mixed at sunset sound studio 1 on the custom sunset console.
Prolly smart C1 and a touch of GML on the 2buss.
That’s what I remember.
Awesome info, thanks so much Rob!!
Old 11th June 2018
  #2250
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rob S's Avatar
You got it
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