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Important lesson on working with sound when it is still alive
Old 14th May 2006
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
echo unit's Avatar
 

Important lesson on working with sound when it is still alive

Tonight I had a revelation that I hope will enlighten many of you.

Getting the sound the way you want for your mix should be done while recording when using digital recording technology because it allows to you take advantage of all of the important elements of sound while the sound is still alive and existing in real time and space.

This is the right time to make decisions. Not later once the sound is no longer living.

Once a sound has been commited to digital, it no longer exists in any real form, only a dead and virtual one that can be copied as many times as you want.

Anything that can be copied exactly is no longer a living entity. It cannot develop and grow like living things do.

All living things, including sounds - vibrations created by energy living in the earth's atmosphere are all different from one another and not repeatable in any natural way.

This is one of the laws of natural physics. It's pretty basic and when something is commited to digital encoding, it is then locked into a world of death where it can be repeated as many times as you like and can be the same everytime. The sound is therefore not alive. It is dead. This is not the time to try to make a sound grow and be something else other than what it already is. It's too late.

Any further attempts at manipulation of sounds once recorded to digital and locked into the world of artificial intelligence will only degrade and hinder the sound because the sounds are dead and they can not improve, grow or develop. They are frozen into the dead and still world of digital codes.

Changing your audio once in the digital realm is about as natural as cloning humans.

If you want your music to sound at it's best and to vibrate in a way that is most pleasing to you then it would be of great benefit to develop and create your sounds as you wish them to be in thier totality while they are alive during recording. Waiting for later to mull over the options is really just procrastination and now that you know from what I have said here that your sound is dead anyway, hopefully this will deter you from waiting unitl it is too late. Give your music the the most full and complete life it deserves before it has to pass on to it's death in the digital realm.

Good luck!
Old 14th May 2006
  #2
When I mix I make sound zombies because first the music is live and then I record it to digital and kill it and then i mix it and make analog and it comes to life and kills people.
Old 14th May 2006
  #3
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo unit
Tonight I had a revelation that I hope will enlighten many of you.

Getting the sound the way you want for your mix should be done while recording when using digital recording technology because it allows to you take advantage of all of the important elements of sound while the sound is still alive and existing in real time and space.

This is the right time to make decisions. Not later once the sound is no longer living.

Once a sound has been commited to digital, it no longer exists in any real form, only a dead and virtual one that can be copied as many times as you want.

Anything that can be copied exactly is no longer a living entity. It cannot develop and grow like living things do.

All living things, including sounds - vibrations created by energy living in the earth's atmosphere are all different from one another and not repeatable in any natural way.

This is one of the laws of natural physics. It's pretty basic and when something is commited to digital encoding, it is then locked into a world of death where it can be repeated as many times as you like and can be the same everytime. The sound is therefore not alive. It is dead. This is not the time to try to make a sound grow and be something else other than what it already is. It's too late.

Any further attempts at manipulation of sounds once recorded to digital and locked into the world of artificial intelligence will only degrade and hinder the sound because the sounds are dead and they can not improve, grow or develop. They are frozen into the dead and still world of digital codes.

Changing your audio once in the digital realm is about as natural as cloning humans.

If you want your music to sound at it's best and to vibrate in a way that is most pleasing to you then it would be of great benefit to develop and create your sounds as you wish them to be in thier totality while they are alive during recording. Waiting for later to mull over the options is really just procrastination and now that you know from what I have said here that your sound is dead anyway, hopefully this will deter you from waiting unitl it is too late. Give your music the the most full and complete life it deserves before it has to pass on to it's death in the digital realm.

Good luck!
Please stop parading your ignorance.

Getting a good sound before you print doesn't constitute a revelation.

But I'm glad to hear you figured this out tonight.

Rock on, EchoBoy.


BTW, look up artificial intelligence.
Old 14th May 2006
  #4
Gear Head
 
fadista's Avatar
 

this was a very mystical post, but:

I have to agree that if you're going to mix ITB, the closer the sounds are to where you want them in the mix, the better your results will be.

while mixing in analog you can just **** **** up so much more ( and it'll still sound good )



cheers
Old 14th May 2006
  #5
Gear Head
 
fadista's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fadista
this was a very mystical post, but:

I have to agree that if you're going to mix ITB, the closer the sounds are to where you want them in the mix, the better your results will be.

while mixing in analog you can just **** **** up so much more ( and it'll still sound good )



cheers
or not,

**** this ****, I don't care, just give me some music I can enjoy...fuuck
Old 14th May 2006
  #6
back on topic: red curry or green? i prefer red.
Old 14th May 2006
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
echo unit's Avatar
 

Charlie, the revelation is discovering when sound is alive and when it dies.

Knowing that creates an entirely new respect for the living sound world and changes how we must approach our documentation of living sounds. This documentation is where the life of a sound comes to an end.

We must spend the majority of our working time nurturing sounds while they are alive and let them rest in peace during thier death.

Many people are spending most of thier time working in the world of the dead. This is not a good place to focus your energy as most of it will be wasted trying to bring things back to life which are already dead.
Old 14th May 2006
  #8
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Dude, Night of the Living Dead.

I love that movie!

The '68 original, not the remake.
Old 14th May 2006
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye
Dude, Night of the Living Dead.

I love that movie!

The '68 original, not the remake.
BBBBBRRRRRRAAAAAAAIIIIIIIINNNNNNNSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!
Old 14th May 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Kestral's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye
Please stop parading your ignorance.

Getting a good sound before you print doesn't constitute a revelation.

But I'm glad to hear you figured this out tonight.

Rock on, EchoBoy.


BTW, look up artificial intelligence.
In a way it is a revelation. With all those stupid ass home recording magazines and web sites telling people to record the signal as dry and direct without EQ as possible, actually getting the right sound and printing it (*gasp* God forbid someone actually prints a delay or *eek* reverb!) is a major revelation.

Committing to a sound right at recording imo is what seperates the home recording punters from the semi-pro/pros.

I remember years back when I was reading a music magazine "10 Do's of Recording" or something like that and one of the do's was "record the sound dry with no EQ". And then the next article was of Daniel Lanois and he's talking about how he prints the delay/reverb/effects on The Edge's guitar amp. So I looked at the first article written by some ****** and the second article where Daniel Lanois is talking and said f--k the ******, I'll listen to Lanois.
Old 14th May 2006
  #11
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

i hear ya @ ECHO very well said




lets reamp that ****
Old 14th May 2006
  #12
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Kestral, that's all well + good, but you're OT, buddy.

We're talking horror flicks here.
Old 14th May 2006
  #13
Registered User
 

Does anyone remeber the cult B movie "Dark Star" ?

Great film - really really wacky - the bit at the end with trying to talk the bomb into "not blowing the ship up" ah it still gives me the biggest laugh when I watch it.

Trebor
Old 14th May 2006
  #14
Gear Head
 
fadista's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebor Flow
Does anyone remeber the cult B movie "Dark Star" ?

Great film - really really wacky - the bit at the end with trying to talk the bomb into "not blowing the ship up" ah it still gives me the biggest laugh when I watch it.

Trebor

but my purpose in life is to blow **** up
Old 14th May 2006
  #15
Registered User
 

Fadista are you familar with the concepts of phenomenology, (the intuitive experience of phenomena) this thread you are reading may not be real! The original post may not be real. Infact on second reading it does seems unreal. Therefore if you don't exist - there is no reason to " blow **** up "

Trebor
Old 14th May 2006
  #16
Gear Head
 
fadista's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebor Flow
Fadista are you familar with the concepts of phenomenology, (the intuitive experience of phenomena) this thread you are reading may not be real! The original post may not be real. Infact on second reading it does seems unreal. Therefore if you don't exist - there is no reason to " blow **** up "

Trebor

If I didn't exist there would be no **** to blow up
Old 14th May 2006
  #17
Lives for gear
 
adamcal's Avatar
 

sean of the dead was quite funny!!

personaly I much prefer to kill the musicians before recording them, saves time later.
Old 14th May 2006
  #18
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcal
sean of the dead was quite funny!!

personaly I much prefer to kill the musicians before recording them, saves time later.
Musicians? We call em waveform donors.
Old 14th May 2006
  #19
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Dead waveforms, that is.

(just to get back on topic)
Old 14th May 2006
  #20
Lives for gear
 
octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye
Musicians? We call em waveform donors.

"Yeah, but Big Al says dogs can't look up!"
Old 14th May 2006
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricey
back on topic: red curry or green? i prefer red.
"Mosssiman" Yellow curry - split the diff.. Bring on - THE POTATOES!
Old 14th May 2006
  #22
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
Wow, Echo - there are two threads I've read in the past few minutes that seemed to have been written by someone either incredible naive, incredibly needy, or incredibly hilarious. I didn't realize until just now that you wrote them both (this one and the topic about the Distressor and compressor settings - a post which you tried to edit out of the thread, but it had already been quoted).
Old 14th May 2006
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo unit
Tonight I had a revelation that I hope will enlighten many of you.

Getting the sound the way you want for your mix should be done while recording when using digital recording technology because it allows to you take advantage of all of the important elements of sound while the sound is still alive and existing in real time and space.

This is the right time to make decisions. Not later once the sound is no longer living.

Once a sound has been commited to digital, it no longer exists in any real form, only a dead and virtual one that can be copied as many times as you want.

Anything that can be copied exactly is no longer a living entity. It cannot develop and grow like living things do.

All living things, including sounds - vibrations created by energy living in the earth's atmosphere are all different from one another and not repeatable in any natural way.

This is one of the laws of natural physics. It's pretty basic and when something is commited to digital encoding, it is then locked into a world of death where it can be repeated as many times as you like and can be the same everytime. The sound is therefore not alive. It is dead. This is not the time to try to make a sound grow and be something else other than what it already is. It's too late.

Any further attempts at manipulation of sounds once recorded to digital and locked into the world of artificial intelligence will only degrade and hinder the sound because the sounds are dead and they can not improve, grow or develop. They are frozen into the dead and still world of digital codes.

Changing your audio once in the digital realm is about as natural as cloning humans.

If you want your music to sound at it's best and to vibrate in a way that is most pleasing to you then it would be of great benefit to develop and create your sounds as you wish them to be in thier totality while they are alive during recording. Waiting for later to mull over the options is really just procrastination and now that you know from what I have said here that your sound is dead anyway, hopefully this will deter you from waiting unitl it is too late. Give your music the the most full and complete life it deserves before it has to pass on to it's death in the digital realm.

Good luck!
it's times like these when I really miss smoking the reefer
Old 14th May 2006
  #24
Moderator
 
Tim Farrant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo unit
Once a sound has been commited to digital, it no longer exists in any real form, only a dead and virtual one that can be copied as many times as you want.

Anything that can be copied exactly is no longer a living entity. It cannot develop and grow like living things do.
I am very interested to learn how you have reached this conclusion? Are you saying that if I record something onto a piece of magnetic tape, it's not dead yet? But if I then dub it to digital, it's all over barr the shout?

mmmmmm
Tim.
Old 14th May 2006
  #25
Gear Addict
 
RhOdEz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye
Musicians? We call em waveform donors.
Priceless -
Old 14th May 2006
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo unit
Tonight I had a revelation that I hope will enlighten many of you.

Getting the sound the way you want for your mix should be done while recording when using digital recording technology because it allows to you take advantage of all of the important elements of sound while the sound is still alive and existing in real time and space.

This is the right time to make decisions. Not later once the sound is no longer living.

Once a sound has been commited to digital, it no longer exists in any real form, only a dead and virtual one that can be copied as many times as you want.

Anything that can be copied exactly is no longer a living entity. It cannot develop and grow like living things do.

All living things, including sounds - vibrations created by energy living in the earth's atmosphere are all different from one another and not repeatable in any natural way.

This is one of the laws of natural physics. It's pretty basic and when something is commited to digital encoding, it is then locked into a world of death where it can be repeated as many times as you like and can be the same everytime. The sound is therefore not alive. It is dead. This is not the time to try to make a sound grow and be something else other than what it already is. It's too late.

Any further attempts at manipulation of sounds once recorded to digital and locked into the world of artificial intelligence will only degrade and hinder the sound because the sounds are dead and they can not improve, grow or develop. They are frozen into the dead and still world of digital codes.

Changing your audio once in the digital realm is about as natural as cloning humans.

If you want your music to sound at it's best and to vibrate in a way that is most pleasing to you then it would be of great benefit to develop and create your sounds as you wish them to be in thier totality while they are alive during recording. Waiting for later to mull over the options is really just procrastination and now that you know from what I have said here that your sound is dead anyway, hopefully this will deter you from waiting unitl it is too late. Give your music the the most full and complete life it deserves before it has to pass on to it's death in the digital realm.

Good luck!
Thanks for your very interesting post! I like your analyze... Keep them comin...! I agree to a certain extent with you here. I think the importance of the tracking phase is generally underestimated. For sound quality it is a very critical stage. My view is that the more professional/creative/musical you want your sound to be the more selective you need to be with your instrument choice, especially when it comes to the key elements. I have a Fender Richie Sambora USA Stratocaster that I spent a lot of money on, I always end up with a smile on my face when I record that, even WITHOUT an amp...! I have been doing gigs with it when people have come on stage and told me how beautiful my guitar sounds. Of course the amplification is extremely important for this as well, but it's the guitar that sounds sweet, that's where the frequencies and the vibrations are coming from (expressed by the artist). So that's where the life is. In terms of vocals this life is coming from the soul. If the vocalist is having a bad day and hates everything it ends up dead sounding. But if the vocalist has a rock solid loving vibe, the amount of life captured is something completely different. If you use bad mics or have a bad miking technique you will of course limit this amount of vibe. Some teens or children can be captured extremely well for vocals due to this reason. Do you remember when Hanson made it to the top? The amount of life in those vocals was something I think it's very rare!

Once you have those very good sounding instruments to track, the focus will be on the mic choice. In order to better hear this you can use a transparent peak limiter and limit to different levels just for checking what's there. That should enhance the life within the instrument, since it focuses the frequency amplitude on different points on the velocity pitch depending on how much you limit. If the instrument sounds much better live you are using the wrong microphone, one that can't register the real sound preassure good enough. So this is where the life is. Then of course the conversion process is a very important step as well, extremely important, because now volts should be transformed into digits so that the natural decay is left, the natural velocity response is left, the harmonic content is left and so on. But let's face it, the converter WILL degrade the sound. So this makes everything before the converter even more important, since you need to compensate somehow for this loss of life and of course the converter itself is extremely important. So this is a very critical step in the recording process.

Then again I have to disagree about mixing not being a key ingredient for life. The mixer does decisions that can be good for those "life" frequencies or bad. Simply moving down the volume fader on the wrong tracks can limit the life of the mix very much. The same with the mastering engineer, he CAN damage the life of the mix.

But overall I agree about the early phase being the most critical and that's what most engineers struggle the most with, since the engineers generally are using their ears while they are mixing and mastering and notice when the life degrades. I think the focus on the rest of the process is often too high in comparison. This is often why professionals often track in a different studio than where they are mixing...
Old 14th May 2006
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Dye
Musicians? We call em waveform donors.
If you don't mind...heh
Old 14th May 2006
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Farrant
I am very interested to learn how you have reached this conclusion? Are you saying that if I record something onto a piece of magnetic tape, it's not dead yet? But if I then dub it to digital, it's all over barr the shout?

mmmmmm
Tim.
that's what I thought.
relating to string theory (not an expert myself ) one could say a specific movement could be transferred to a medium like tape, and exist there as a projection of that movement, a string echo, if you want.
However to present this as the gospel truth and draw such far reaching conclusions, is hazy. Thinking a bit further I am of the opinion that pvoc3000 nailed it.

mjah, and you don't see many threads that have 3 of your favourite movies mentioned. thumbsup
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Old 14th May 2006
  #29
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seaneldon's Avatar
 

as soon as this dude started talking about earth's atmosphere that was it for me. put down the bong and stop thinking about this so much. that's the best advice i can give regarding recording.
Old 14th May 2006
  #30
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theblotted's Avatar
 

i stopped when he started the thread with the word "revelation".

btw, you guys all have ADD or something? i hate it when ppl get OT or starts threadjacking. plz stay on topic!

who here actually liked "28 days later"?
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