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Anyone know a college that awards legit MUSIC TECH degrees based on prior knowledge? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 4th September 2011
  #91
JES
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
I've often thought about doing something similar, but a non-profit kind of thing, where i found somehow funding to get it rolling.

but it's just a dream i have. probably never could happen.

it'd be great to offer kids interested in the subject a real education that didn't put them in debt and jobless at the end of it, like i was. that is NOT a good feeling or a fun road to travel down.

and making it small one on one classes with real actual experience behind a board (gasp) would make it easier to do i think, and less costly as there wouldn't be alot of classes going on and less availability.

but alas, such things could probably never happen.

half on the topic, half off.
Actually, I think you're bringing us back from the brink of full-on bizarro land.

This is a brilliant idea. There are some activists who do music ed in poor neighborhoods who do things like this. If it's your dream, you should totally do it. You'll have to develop some fundraising skills, but you can do that.

Also, you'd help undermine a huge for-profit music education industry. AND you could make a decent living (though not get rich) working for such a nonprofit.

I say go for it.
Old 4th September 2011
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie H View Post
Id say going to school in japan makes a lot of sense - alot of what you pay for in university is that social circle of people in the local community that then (theoretically) goes into the local work force getting jobs in their field.

do you like kimchi Simonator?
isnt kimchee korean ?
Old 4th September 2011
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbak View Post
Don't confuse current trends and fads from "the job market" as being the be-all and end-all arbiter of what has value and what doesn't have value. (And there's more to value in life than money or the $ )

OK, perhaps maths degrees aren't "in vogue" atm (I don't know whether they are or not) but it is a qualification which paves the way for one to tackle any engineering or scientific related field. It's certainly not a waste imo.

My guess would be that the perceived lack of market interest for mathematical qualifications could be related to the US's offshoring of manufacturing and engineering industries. A suicidal policy imo.

Just because there is an over-abundance of near worthless "humanities" related jobs and McJobs which employ legions of the braindead it doesn't mean that things couldn't change tomorrow when things turn sour.
plenty of jobs for math

when i gave a talk to hs math class about careers
i found at least 40 that you could move into with a bsmath
Old 4th September 2011
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JES View Post
Actually, I think you're bringing us back from the brink of full-on bizarro land.

This is a brilliant idea. There are some activists who do music ed in poor neighborhoods who do things like this. If it's your dream, you should totally do it. You'll have to develop some fundraising skills, but you can do that.

Also, you'd help undermine a huge for-profit music education industry. AND you could make a decent living (though not get rich) working for such a nonprofit.

I say go for it.
I thought alot of it. i already have enough gear i feel to get the point across. no, i wouldn't be using mci consoles or api lunchbox pre's or anything, but i would have at the very least something to cover almost all aspects of the recording process. and they would be decent learning units of the prosumer variety, the kind the kids themselves could afford and be familiar with after the classes were through.

so they would miss out playing with the big boy toys for the most part, but would be familiar with things they could feasibly afford and acquire.

my thoughts after that was fishing the idea to some schools. they would just have to provide the place for it to happen really, if it was a non-profit gig. the gear would be taken care of and supplied by myself and i could easily come up with a reasonable cost to build the acoustics if such a space was found.

the hardest part would be curriculum, and making a non profit thing, my social life, and my job so that i could continue to do these things and eat all correspond with each other.

(the social life is half joke. if i had one of those i wouldn't have so many posts.)

the best part would be i could take on interns if a school picked up the idea, and teach them something meanwhile having them earn a credit or something useful towards an education, instead of working for free for possibly nothing.

thats also probably the only way i could ever get a studio of my own, and have a clientele. however i feel my thoughts on a actual attainable job in the industry would reflect in the class and maybe toss some of them off the path as i don't take a glass half full approach at all with it.

the other problem is i have no idea what the first step to actually doing something like this would be
Old 4th September 2011
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-feld View Post
I'm gonna go ahead and say that the English courses are pretty important. At my undergrad, students were required to take two English courses; one on basic grammar and one on technical writing. I think they should have required far more.

if you've ever worked on a research team and drafted a thesis with said team, you probably understand why these courses are required.

On a side note, it's funny that you place math classes in such high regard. I have a friend who just graduated with an undergraduate degree in math and another who is finishing his masters in math. They both have indicated to me that those degrees are viewed by the job market as "soft" and "esoteric" versions of "practical" degrees like computer engineering.
communications is vital for sure
grammar has value
technical writing has value

poetry, shakespeare, russian novels, etc are worthless

math is softer than engineering
but you can get work on wall street,
doing operations research for biz, etc.
even computer programming, and other related fields.

when you prove you can think the jobs open up even more than computer engineering degrees which do typecast you more.
Old 4th September 2011
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-feld View Post
I agree that there is more to life than the job you can find, which is another reason humanities education is important.

What are these worthless McJobs to which you refer? Can you give me some examples?
there is no life if you cant eat
except what mcd feeds you after your mcshift of your mcjob ends
and
live at home in your parents basement
and have no future

mcjobs are everywhere
send out a resume with your ba in art history
and see who responds with an interview IF ANYBODY
Old 4th September 2011
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
there is no life if you cant eat
except what mcd feeds you after your mcshift of your mcjob ends
and
live at home in your parents basement
and have no future
This thread I knew would,
Haiku ultimately end in,
Like snow on meadow.
Old 4th September 2011
  #98
Gear Maniac
 
peachboy's Avatar
 

Just write "I've got a BA degree" on your CV. If they even check I'd be amazed.
Old 4th September 2011
  #99
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My wife has an art history degree and makes a fine living as an antique appraiser.

I had little trouble finding a job as a paralegal when I graduated from college with my BA in English. I had a perfectly fine job with good pay and benefits.

My English degree got me into a top tier law school. It got me better internships during law school because I am more capable of thinking critically and creatively than the kids with political science degrees.

My job search in the past month since I took the bar has been tough, but the economy is bad. Like I said, my best friend has a math degree from Hopkins and he can't find a job either. So I don't plan on feeling too bad about it until I use up the remainder of my loans.

I don't think that it's especially necessary for everyone to have a background in literature or art or music or history or whatever, but having some sort of cultural knowledge makes networking a lot easier.

That said, I did my undergrad at a big state school and, like I said, nobody was required to take any English courses beyond English 101, which was essentially a grammar course, and English 201, which was a technical and business writing course. Everything else was elective.

If I remember correctly, U.S. History was required. I'm not really sure, because I tested out of all the required courses except for Physics (which I satisfied by taking a physics of music class that taught me all about Fourier synthesis!). At any rate, I think it's hard to argue that U.S. history is a wholly irrelevant subject. Even if you believe history is written by the winners (I would say it's written by the ruling class, but that's semantics), not everyone intuitively arrives at that conclusion. It's probably important to know a little bit about what happened in this country in the past 250 years, even if it's from the perspective of the winners, ruling class, or whatever it is you want to call them. It gives you a little perspective on how society works.
Old 4th September 2011
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
isnt kimchee korean ?
Yea but to me it identifies Asia I dunno if i could live there for years just because of spicy cabbage
Old 4th September 2011
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie H View Post
Yea but to me it identifies Asia I dunno if i could live there for years just because of spicy cabbage
They are absolutely mad for it in Japan too.
Old 5th September 2011
  #102
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
No real interest in working in accredited schools.

My wife is Japanese, so I can easily get a spouse visa for Japan.
Still, most language schools there expect every teacher to have a bachelor's degree. Most people I know in the same situation simply lie, and it's never checked.

Still, since I know that the possibility exists to get an accredited degree from 'test-out' only in New Jersey... I'm just asking if anyone knows of any other options.
First thing is, Japanese work visas require a 4 year degree. 3 won't cut it according to the letter of immigration law, so keep an eye out for that.

But a spousal visa is fine, I met plenty of people who were hired as teachers just on that. Some schools will look down on you not having a degree, some won't care as long as you're clean cut and reasonably intelligent and responsible, particularly smaller schools without corporate rulebooks to play by.

A Japanese wife is most always held as a plus - basically they know that there's somebody to explain everything to you and keep you on the straight and narrow.

Running away to Japan is fun, I can tell you, but you're probably pretty much going to be landing a 20k pound a year job for all your trouble and financial outlay, CELTA or not. Japan's economy is having a tough time these days, the number of private schools has dropped over the past couple of years (Sayonara, Nova) nd English teachers are not hard to come by.

So if you do manage to acquire a degree somehow, or jsut go over on a spousal visa, be really sure you know what you're getting yourself into, big picture wise.
Old 5th September 2011
  #103
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Thanks for all the advice.


On this point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto View Post
First thing is, Japanese work visas require a 4 year degree. 3 won't cut it according to the letter of immigration law, so keep an eye out for that.

I know LOADS of people who've gone over via the JET program with a 3 year degree.

In the UK, 3 years is standard (4/5 years would be medicine/specific engineering degrees etc), and I think a 3 year UK degree is equivalent to 4 years in the U.S., and possibly 5 years in some other countries... I think Germany has a longer period of study for an equivalent degree too (?).


EDIT: It seems like UK Uni's are cutting the mustard too- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...d-2349326.html
Old 5th September 2011
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-feld View Post
My wife has an art history degree and makes a fine living as an antique appraiser.

I had little trouble finding a job as a paralegal when I graduated from college with my BA in English. I had a perfectly fine job with good pay and benefits.

My English degree got me into a top tier law school. It got me better internships during law school because I am more capable of thinking critically and creatively than the kids with political science degrees.

My job search in the past month since I took the bar has been tough, but the economy is bad. Like I said, my best friend has a math degree from Hopkins and he can't find a job either. So I don't plan on feeling too bad about it until I use up the remainder of my loans.

I don't think that it's especially necessary for everyone to have a background in literature or art or music or history or whatever, but having some sort of cultural knowledge makes networking a lot easier.

That said, I did my undergrad at a big state school and, like I said, nobody was required to take any English courses beyond English 101, which was essentially a grammar course, and English 201, which was a technical and business writing course. Everything else was elective.

If I remember correctly, U.S. History was required. I'm not really sure, because I tested out of all the required courses except for Physics (which I satisfied by taking a physics of music class that taught me all about Fourier synthesis!). At any rate, I think it's hard to argue that U.S. history is a wholly irrelevant subject. Even if you believe history is written by the winners (I would say it's written by the ruling class, but that's semantics), not everyone intuitively arrives at that conclusion. It's probably important to know a little bit about what happened in this country in the past 250 years, even if it's from the perspective of the winners, ruling class, or whatever it is you want to call them. It gives you a little perspective on how society works.
just what we need
more lawyers
Old 5th September 2011
  #105
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
...critical thinking is only learned in math classes. you never get it in any of the touchy feely useless liberal courses.
To be specific, it comes in higher math classes (4000 and above) generally required only by math majors. Those that involve writing proofs. Your precious engineering math classes don't cut it...
Old 5th September 2011
  #106
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
poetry, shakespeare, russian novels, etc are worthless
That is entirely subjective. A book that produces a reaction in a reader has value to that reader.

A books value is what it inspires.

It's entirely in the eye of the beholder.
Old 5th September 2011
  #107
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books are worthless just like music is worthless, so get the **** off this board and go to mathslutz.com and leave intellectualism to those of us who value the lessons great historical works can provide
Old 5th September 2011
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
books are worthless just like music is worthless, so get the **** off this board and go to mathslutz.com and leave intellectualism to those of us who value the lessons great historical works can provide
smoke some more weed
you will find more intellectualism than in any liberal arts book

there are NO GREAT historical works
they are total bullbleep
Old 5th September 2011
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
fascist = those who want to tell us what to do instead of letting us decide for ourselves.

greed is a politicians problem. economists have false assumptions which leads to erroneous results. close enough a thousand years ago. but now the assumptions are wrong enough to be significant and cannot be ignored.

the benefit of an alleged well rounded education accrues only to the worthless professors of crap courses that nobody would take unless they were forced to.

nobody is cut off from anything when they are free to choose. they can take any course no matter how crappy or worthless if they want to. sane logical rational people will choose courses that they eitehr like a lot or are practical so they can make a living.

taking worthless courses is not education.
it is torture. it is theft of time and money.
BREAK THE CYCLE OF ABUSE NOW! let students paying the tuition pick their own classes.

there is no real history. only propaganda by whoever is in power to control the books.

knowing bunk aka "history" wont prevent repeating mistakes.

you have to regurgitate the party line to pass the mandated courses. nobody has time or energy, or even cares, to find out the truth. just get taht C and get outta this crap class.

all FICTION has negative value whether "literature" eg shakespeare or fiction as "history".

trivia is part of the knowledge base. but it has some small value unlike history and "literature" which are less than worthless , having negative value. not pretending here - that is the truth history and literature ARE worthless.

math makes people think logically. and lack of logic is what is causing so many of our problems.

critical thinking is only learned in math classes. you never get it in any of the touchy feely useless liberal courses.

agreed - our political system requires taht the scum be in power cause good people cant get elected. and good people dont want to have to deal with the mess we have.

indeed global warming nonsense was designed to make certain groups richer.
lol. You're starting to sound like a Maoist.
Old 5th September 2011
  #110
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good luck with your search simonator and i hope everything works out for you

to continue the hijack, i completely disagree with oldanalogueguy about the importance of history but he's pretty spot on re: math, engineering, and computer science. i can think of several job fields that are actively hiring that require a degree of one of the above and starting pay easily eclipses what a good portion of people will ever make in their lifetime. i feel that english and writing in general is extremely important but given most entry level careers, some sort of specialized technical knowledge will take you much further.

given the current (and most likely near future) state of the economy, i could never recommend that someone go for a more generalist degree over something that will give them a much better chance of obtaining employment upon graduation; especially since most people take out massive student loans to pay for college.
Old 5th September 2011
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
just what we need
more lawyers
So, what is your problem with lawyers, anyway?

You sound like the kind of guy who likes well defined property rights.
Old 5th September 2011
  #112
If Simonator doesn't have a US passport I'd strongly advise against US universities at this time. The visa situation between the US/UK is excessively convoluted these days, and with only a small number of exceptions foreign students will always pay the highest tuition rates (mainly an issue at state schools). At a time when universities are still feeling the budget crunch and undergraduate education is only lengthening, I'd be very worried that this dream program that seemingly you could test out of would turn into a very expensive (read, over $40,000/yr just for tuition/fees) multiyear proposition.

If you have options in the UK, I'd pursue those, and as another poster mentioned, I'd consider applying for a 1-2 year masters program instead. In some Middle Eastern countries, having a MA gets you even more pay as an English teacher than a BA (perhaps elsewhere as well). One vague possibility, and I throw this out there since it seems you're comfortable writing stuff - if you can get a well-researched article published in some sort of academic journal related to your specialty knowledge, perhaps in something like the Journal for the Art of Record Production, that might help a prospective masters program even more strongly consider your practical experience and ignore your lack of a BA/BS. Have you looked into the MA program at Westminister? Could be interesting...
Old 5th September 2011
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy View Post
smoke some more weed
you will find more intellectualism than in any liberal arts book
I prefer soma....as do you I'm sure.
Old 5th September 2011
  #114
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
If Simonator doesn't have a US passport I'd strongly advise against US universities at this time. The visa situation between the US/UK is excessively convoluted these days, and with only a small number of exceptions foreign students will always pay the highest tuition rates (mainly an issue at state schools). At a time when universities are still feeling the budget crunch and undergraduate education is only lengthening, I'd be very worried that this dream program that seemingly you could test out of would turn into a very expensive (read, over $40,000/yr just for tuition/fees) multiyear proposition.

If you have options in the UK, I'd pursue those, and as another poster mentioned, I'd consider applying for a 1-2 year masters program instead. In some Middle Eastern countries, having a MA gets you even more pay as an English teacher than a BA (perhaps elsewhere as well). One vague possibility, and I throw this out there since it seems you're comfortable writing stuff - if you can get a well-researched article published in some sort of academic journal related to your specialty knowledge, perhaps in something like the Journal for the Art of Record Production, that might help a prospective masters program even more strongly consider your practical experience and ignore your lack of a BA/BS. Have you looked into the MA program at Westminister? Could be interesting...
Some very useful comments here... Thanks!
Old 5th September 2011
  #115
Gear Addict
 
invisiblekiduk's Avatar
 

hey dude, just skimmed the thread, thought I'd throw in a few points (Japan related ones anyway). Probably repeating stuff that's been said but this thread is loooong.

3 year degree is fine, that "4 year only" stuff is bunk.

There are working holiday visas available (provided you're under 30 I think....but there are exceptions occasionally). Only a year but there is always the "easy" way out after you've settled in- marry a Japanese national! :P

I would not advise trying to go to a Japanese Uni, unless you already had a degree and fancied doing a masters, which would be beside the point. Or unless you're already fluent at Japanese, don't mind sitting through totally banal classes and don't mind the fact that nearly all the staff are edit: not so much in the brightness stakes (go KSU!).

There is also of course, visa hopping to Korea and, which is only really an option if you're not engaged in any "official" employment, and isn't a long term solution at all (although rumour has it there are guys that have gotten by with that for quite a while).

If I think of anything else I'll let ya know lol
Old 5th September 2011
  #116
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by invisiblekiduk View Post
hey dude, just skimmed the thread, thought I'd throw in a few points (Japan related ones anyway). Probably repeating stuff that's been said but this thread is loooong.

3 year degree is fine, that "4 year only" stuff is bunk.

There are working holiday visas available (provided you're under 30 I think....but there are exceptions occasionally). Only a year but there is always the "easy" way out after you've settled in- marry a Japanese national! :P

I would not advise trying to go to a Japanese Uni, unless you already had a degree and fancied doing a masters, which would be beside the point. Or unless you're already fluent at Japanese, don't mind sitting through totally banal classes and don't mind the fact that nearly all the staff are edit: not so much in the brightness stakes (go KSU!).

There is also of course, visa hopping to Korea and, which is only really an option if you're not engaged in any "official" employment, and isn't a long term solution at all (although rumour has it there are guys that have gotten by with that for quite a while).

If I think of anything else I'll let ya know lol
Cheers dude!

Yep... I'm married up already... for my sins.
Old 5th September 2011
  #117
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
Thanks for all the advice.


On this point:




I know LOADS of people who've gone over via the JET program with a 3 year degree.

In the UK, 3 years is standard (4/5 years would be medicine/specific engineering degrees etc), and I think a 3 year UK degree is equivalent to 4 years in the U.S., and possibly 5 years in some other countries... I think Germany has a longer period of study for an equivalent degree too (?).
Glad to hear it. I'd been told something similar, the immigration guidelines on the government websites all say 4 years over & over again though.
Old 5th September 2011
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oudplayer View Post
If Simonator doesn't have a US passport I'd strongly advise against US universities at this time. The visa situation between the US/UK is excessively convoluted these days, and with only a small number of exceptions foreign students will always pay the highest tuition rates (mainly an issue at state schools). At a time when universities are still feeling the budget crunch and undergraduate education is only lengthening, I'd be very worried that this dream program that seemingly you could test out of would turn into a very expensive (read, over $40,000/yr just for tuition/fees) multiyear proposition.

If you have options in the UK, I'd pursue those, and as another poster mentioned, I'd consider applying for a 1-2 year masters program instead. In some Middle Eastern countries, having a MA gets you even more pay as an English teacher than a BA (perhaps elsewhere as well). One vague possibility, and I throw this out there since it seems you're comfortable writing stuff - if you can get a well-researched article published in some sort of academic journal related to your specialty knowledge, perhaps in something like the Journal for the Art of Record Production, that might help a prospective masters program even more strongly consider your practical experience and ignore your lack of a BA/BS. Have you looked into the MA program at Westminister? Could be interesting...
i think the assumption was that he could do it remotely
never have to enter the usa
only ship his proof to the school so they can give him credit
and then they mail the degree upon payment of a lot of $$$$$
Old 5th September 2011
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-feld View Post
So, what is your problem with lawyers, anyway?

You sound like the kind of guy who likes well defined property rights.

well defined property rights are the foundation of civilisation

my problem with lawyers is that too many of them become politicians
Old 5th September 2011
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-feld View Post
lol. You're starting to sound like a Maoist.
nope

somewhere between libertarian and ronald reagan
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