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Amazing thing I just realized about Pete Rock and similar-style producers of the 90s Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 4th January 2011
  #31
Amazing thing I just realized about Pete Rock and similar-style producers of the 90s

Mixed in key & musicmath.

Check em out if ya like to cheat.
Old 4th January 2011
  #32
Amazing thing I just realized about Pete Rock and similar-style producers of the 90s

Quote:
Originally Posted by drollz
I've been using an MPC 2000 classic for the past few months, and I don't think there is such fine tuning available. I'd also be very surprised if there was on the SP. (Could be wrong on both accounts though!)
2000xl def does have a tune adjustment.
Old 4th January 2011
  #33
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
occasionally when i'm mixing together samples from a lot of different sources and something is slightly off that i cant figure out (it does happen), something that helps is to simply do an interpolation of the sample(s)—i like using pianoteq for this but you could use any kind of gm sound. anyway, i'll loop the sample continually and pick out the chord structure/changes by ear, then program that as a midi sequence in the daw using the piano sound. then you can do the same with your other samples, and when everything is interpolated as piano sounds, it becomes obviously apparent where the issues are—sometimes its just one specific note of a chord in one sample that's dissonant, etc. it can actually be quite helpful for problem solving if you're using numerous samples with complex chord structures/progressions, assuming you can accurately replicate the correct notes of your samples.

a second method if you're really struggling to tune something is to use a spectrum analyzer—set up a group channel in your daw with voxengo span on it. you send your (looping) sample to one side (R or L) and set up a synth that has a sine oscillator to the other side. you can set up span so that it displays both incoming channels discretely, in different colors. you also need to adjust span so that it has the highest resolution possible, and then you simply figure out where the root note of the sample is by looking at the display. then you use your sine wave to play the closest note to the root note, and you slowly detune the sample til it's main peak overlaps the peak of the sine wave. perfect sample tuning! this works best for tuning low or sub bass notes which can be difficult to discern, pitch-wise.
Old 4th January 2011
  #34
Lives for gear
These can be tough on a bass player if they don't know what they are doing.

The samples are not in key with any note, so you have to find the tonic note in the sample and then tune the bass to it.
Old 5th January 2011
  #35
Gear Head
 

We talked about this a bit in another thread. Some really good info...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-h...emulation.html
Old 5th January 2011
  #36
Gear Addict
Just saw some uncleared things here:
1. The SP12/SP1200 doesn't have finetuning
2. The 900/950 have a fine tuning parameter that can be set to +/- 99 but +99 doesn't mean +1 semitone!! A semitone is +16 on the finetuning parameter (+32 fine is +2 semitones and so on).
3. Someone said that he respect the old cats because they had to handle pitch AND tempo. No question, I respect their work too but keep in mind that many of the old cats where DJs, therefore they know how to mix records, know what will mix up nice together.
I can imagine that many beats first were simply two records, mixed together. And think about what happen if you don't wanna do the same mix.
You will search for a record that also fit in. Now there are three songs that will fit together and so on.
As a DJ you know how its done and you can hear if there is a problem with the pitch of two songs, you dont want to play two songs that really doesnt fit together.

peace and dont forget to listen to Pauls Boutique! and of course PE
Old 6th January 2011
  #37
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JaeOne3345's Avatar
 

Those of you into sampling at 45 rpm may find this useful. I wrote this info up a long time ago and still use it when I use my sp-1200 (which does not have fine tune).

dxarmy.com sp1200 forum :: Sampling at higher speeds (45 rpm etc) properly

Cliffnotes for the link above: Make sure you are sampling at a pitch/speed that is neither sharp or flat. A test tone and a guitar tuner will help you find out what speed/pitch on your turntable this value correlates to. This also assumes the people/artists/band you are sampling were in tune on the original recording at the suggested speed for the record (33, 45, 78, etc).

Hope it helps someone.

Peace.
Old 6th January 2011
  #38
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeOne3345 View Post
Those of you into sampling at 45 rpm may find this useful. I wrote this info up a long time ago and still use it when I use my sp-1200 (which does not have fine tune).

dxarmy.com sp1200 forum :: Sampling at higher speeds (45 rpm etc) properly

Cliffnotes for the link above: Make sure you are sampling at a pitch/speed that is neither sharp or flat. A test tone and a guitar tuner will help you find out what speed/pitch on your turntable this value correlates to. This also assumes the people/artists/band you are sampling were in tune on the original recording at the suggested speed for the record (33, 45, 78, etc).

Hope it helps someone.

Peace.
Very helpful. Thank you.
Old 8th January 2011
  #39
Gear Addict
 

JaeOne3345 - First of all, I'm a big fan of your crew's YouTube videos. Sorry if this is an ignorant question, but do you have music for sale somewhere so I can show support?

Secondly, any tips on finding a test tone record? On eBay, which I search "test tone," I get two results, both of which are 45's, which wouldn't work for what you're suggesting! Any tips on what else to search for, maybe even a specific title (or two) of records including test tones? Thanks!
Old 8th January 2011
  #40
Lives for gear
 
JaeOne3345's Avatar
 

I am not directly in DXA. But they are family to me. I did a song for them on their Progression album, which can be found on itunes in both the full album and the instrumental version. I did the music for "I Don't Wanna Hate" which is basically just a funny parody about lame women.

For a test tone, I create my own sine wav and load it up into serato.
Old 9th January 2011
  #41
Gear Head
 
Sam B's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drollz View Post
Yesterday, I had an epiphany. I took that sample in at 45rpm, when the original speed was 33 1/3rpm. This shifted the pitch, but not by an exact number of semitones, thus throwing it out of the traditional scale of notes. No keys on the keyboard are ever going to match it because they're all slightly off. I mean, it sounds good by itself (most listeners wouldn't be able to say, "Hey, that's not A440!") but introducing new notes is a mess because they can't match. Sure, there are ways it can be done, but this has been my stumbling block. Obviously, I need to learn more music theory.
Been there done that mane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drollz View Post

So my thoughts on this were "no more sampling at 45rpm!" Sample at the original pitch, even though it will take up more time and also I won't get the vintage low(er)-fi sound of the late 80s and early 90s, but at least my samples will be in traditional notes that I can pitch up or down by whole semitones. Then I started thinking about the greats like Pete Rock, blending three or four samples on the SP-1200, undoubtedly sampled in at 45rpm (if not 45rpm with +8% pitch!). Blending these samples at their original pitch is quite a feat, imo, but to get them to match up when they're all "out of tune" (at least at the sampling stage) is truly mind-blowing, imo, unless I'm missing something. I can't imagine having sounds stored up on disk, all out of tune, and then somehow getting them to match. Or maybe Pete assembled them all on the spot, but others had to have had the stored sounds approach. This has given me even more respect for the great beatmakers.
I use ALOT of samples that have been pre-processed, chopped, or recorded by somebody else. I come across the problems your having alot.
I usually get the first note to hit on an exact tone, then the rest is usually gravy.
Old 10th January 2011
  #42
Gear Addict
 

I thought I'd share another idea I had, inspired by JaeOne3345. JaeOne says you can use a 33 1/3 rpm tone test record, if you have one, along with a guitar tuner to tune your turntables so that 45rpm + x% pitch will be in tune. (Yes, this relies on all of your records being exactly in tune, which they won't be, but that goes for sampling at any speed, and if you don't have fine tune, this is better than nothing). Alternatively, you can use serato and speed a sine wav up to 45rpm +x%. However, if you don't have serato and don't have a test-tone record, here's an idea: I found a "how to play guitar" record on eBay. I ASSUME that it will contain isolated notes that will allow me to do the same kind of tuning that JaeOne3345 talks about. I don't know how you could teach someone to play without first showing them what a C sounds like.
Old 10th January 2011
  #43
Gear Addict
 

Hmmm... Problem: The guitar tuners I looked at today basically tell you what note you're closest to; they don't say "uh, you're not really at a C here, but somewhere between a C# and D -- tune your ****."
Old 10th January 2011
  #44
Gear Head
 

My cheapo Korg chromatic tuner worked just fine for this. Stay away from guitar tuners, as they only tune E-A-D-G-B-E. Go with a chromatic tuner.
Old 10th January 2011
  #45
Gear Addict
 

rafa771 - Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure the example I was looking at was the "cheap Korg chromatic tuner." But no matter what you did, it would spit back a note at you. So what happens if you're playing a note that's somewhere in between two notes? It seemed like it would just tell you which note was closest.
Old 11th January 2011
  #46
Gear Maniac
 

I usually record some synth with lots of mid and high freqs before composing any basslines to sampled sequences. Then when i get the test instrument right i play the bassline to fit that test instrument and delete that test instrument. My ear won't hear the low freqs right on many occasions. Mid range freqs are easier to fine tune IMO

I almost always fine tune the sample... even though the sound might not be as good but i hate to make beats with all instruments fine tuned to some random pitch. Now that i've used FL9 more than the mp 1k (because i'm traveling so much) it's been so easy and fast (in jj there still isn't a parameter to fine tune all samples in a prog at once?? Usually I forget to tune before doing that slicing...=)


btw. guitar rig has an excellent tuner (atleast since v. 3)
Old 11th January 2011
  #47
Gear Addict
 

Okay... I think I just didn't understand how guitar tuners work. My boy says it will tell you how far off you are from the closest note, whereas the guy at Guitar Center and I just weren't speaking the same language.
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