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Call me crazy but is UFO disclosure near? What Role will music play if true?
Old 16th September 2019
  #2941
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
To state it another way - the inability to prove something does not exist happens 100% of the time.
Therein lies the believers' ace in the hole.

So the skeptics' solution is to not bother indulging the believer in an argument 100% of the time.

Or just admit the inevitable and call it a day:

"No, I cannot prove that [47,123,572 planets have rhinoceros people who adhere to a strict diet of unicorn feces] do not exist."
Old 16th September 2019
  #2942
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
Congratulations your starting to understand! Your post is the beginning of you trying to convince me that there are aliens and you have abandoned the notion that I should prove they don't.
I think it was someone else trying to say burden of proof is on the person saying that something doesn't exist. Or something like that. IDK. Anyway, cool.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2943
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Well, as far as I'm concerned, religious questions are utterly irrelevant. So proving or disproving such things is, for me, a waste of time. And you are speaking of "belief". That's a topic where pretty much anything goes, logic and evidence be damned. So I guess one could "believe" in aliens. Have at it.
It is rhetoric.. Do you have feelings? PROVE THAT. You can not. Although you believe or 'think you have feelings - you could never prove it to me or anyone else. So are things like love and happiness - what say you - this is not religious?
Old 16th September 2019
  #2944
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Therein lies the believers' ace in the hole.

The skeptics' solution is to not even indulge the believer in an argument 100% of the time.
Being able to prove a negative and engaging in a discussion/argument are two different things. I seem to be pretty engaged in this thread at the moment.

If I ask you why you believe in something and you provide an argument based on logic then I would be happy to engage you on your argument. We can talk about your reasoned argument that said thing exists. But that's you arguing it exists, not me proving it doesn't exist.

If you say you believe in that thing despite logic - ie. on faith. Then I have nothing to discuss because logic is my only tool to convince you and your only tool to convince me.

If your belief is based on my inability to prove a negative than I would (hypothetically speaking) conclude that you're a fool or a fraud.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
It is rhetoric.. Do you have feelings? PROVE THAT. You can not. Although you believe or 'think you have feelings - you could never prove it to me or anyone else. So are things like love and happiness - what say you - this is not religious?
I believe I have feelings toward aliens, and they're mostly inappropriate.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2946
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
If your belief is based on my inability to prove a negative than I would (hypothetically speaking) conclude that you're a fool or a fraud.
I'm lost here . . .
I believe I'll have another drink.

I think all I was saying is that if someone wants to prove to you something they "believe" in, it's in your best interest to save the time and grief and simply not give them the satisfaction of an argument.

If they present verifiable evidence, (something the believers in intelligent extraterrestrial aliens have as yet not produced) and not merely beliefs, then you have a basis for a discussion.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2947
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
...I believe I'll have another drink.
Me too. Cheers.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2948
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
It is rhetoric.. Do you have feelings? PROVE THAT. You can not. Although you believe or 'think you have feelings - you could never prove it to me or anyone else. So are things like love and happiness - what say you - this is not religious?
One would need to solve The Hard Problem Of Consciousness first, in order to have a way to scientifically describe the notion of "feelings" in the way you're describing. Simultaneously, we are making quite a bit of progress in identifying the chemical reactions in the brain related to these "feelings", but none of that gets close to describing the experience.

Expressed differently, describing the ways in which the eye and brain interpret the colors red or blue, for instance, is completely different from describing the experience of seeing red or blue. And it is this to which "s_wave" is alluding.

We need to solve the "Hard Problem" first.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2949
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slutter View Post

We need to solve the "Hard Problem" first.
Seems like a lot of work. Me, I'm saving the Hard Problem until after I buy the farm. At which point it won't matter anymore. Unless, of course, there's actually life after death, in which case I am royally screwed.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2950
Gear Maniac
 
tweekyboo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
So you are saying that God and angels do not exist because you can't prove it? Many people who have seen the like... do not need proof... Who says a burden of proof is even part of the question. For someone who does not believe - they are like the Missouri saying - I will believe it when I see it. I like the other saying... you will see it when you believe it. Can you prove there is no life after death? That does not mean it does not exist.
People claim to have seen god and angels with wildly differing interpretations, there is no collective agreement on what constitutes gods or angels, yet people go to war over these so-called 'truths'.

Facts matter, facts can be proven. The belief in gods and angels is pure supposition.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2951
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I believe I have feelings toward aliens, and they're mostly inappropriate.
You are adamant that you are right... about the 'BURDEN OF PROOF' and exactly what it is - then deflect the religious argument to a canned answer- then I ask a follow up question in seriousness and you deflect it with a joke... you have no clue how to discuss something like this. In NYC we say you da man.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2952
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweekyboo View Post
People claim to have seen god and angels with wildly differing interpretations, there is no collective agreement on what constitutes gods or angels, yet people go to war over these so-called 'truths'.

Facts matter, facts can be proven. The belief in gods and angels is pure supposition.
Just like I said to OP you can not prove you have feelings or have love of... something... it;s pure supposition... prove that you even care about your answer, Oh I was mislead by a botty trait. LOL
Old 16th September 2019
  #2953
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slutter View Post
One would need to solve The Hard Problem Of Consciousness first, in order to have a way to scientifically describe the notion of "feelings" in the way you're describing. Simultaneously, we are making quite a bit of progress in identifying the chemical reactions in the brain related to these "feelings", but none of that gets close to describing the experience.

Expressed differently, describing the ways in which the eye and brain interpret the colors red or blue, for instance, is completely different from describing the experience of seeing red or blue. And it is this to which "s_wave" is alluding.

We need to solve the "Hard Problem" first.
Exactly, the 'hard problem' was shuffled under the rug by the other remarks in a snarky (I know everything attitude) - Moving the goal posts. Many people get stale kicks from this type of passive aggressive troll tactic. I do not fall for these cheap sling tricks.

It is like asking a question like; Where does your consciousness come from?... (exploding brain syndrome) - you must delve into hard problems and the theory of of the 'circle' where intelligible energy can travel around into itself... Which has been around for thousands of years.. yet totally ignored by the mainstream science community - yet the wanna be peanut pundits - 'ya but how does that relate to 2+2=4?'

People often shy from a good old rousing discussion or heated debate. I find it invigorating and enlightening on many levels.

A theorist's theorist once said 'Until you come from the stance, or point of view; that all you ever knew might be wrong, you have not stepped into the doorway of wisdom.'

Kepler examplifies this tenfold. Yet, in today's world we see it in the stubborn polarization across the masses reflected in world politics. Some say it is 'invisible political correctness sheeple syndrome'. We need to finish and follow through with these mere small differences of opinions now more than ever?
Old 16th September 2019
  #2954
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Just like I said to OP you can not prove you have feelings or have love of... something... it;s pure supposition... prove that you even care about your answer, Oh I was mislead by a botty trait. LOL
I've spent a lot of money (not to mention time and energy) on my daughter to give her the best chances in life I can. She is now 19 and I am still doing it. Absent feelings, this is totally irrational behavior. Rationally I should spend as little money on her as possible to save more for me. I've been 100% consistent in this irrational behavior for 19 years. This is very strong evidence for feelings. Its is the only rational explanation. And it fits the pattern shared with 99.999% of fellow parents in the human race.

We all have many examples like this - proving you have feelings is not that difficult.

If you've ever encountered a sociopath you will know what the absence of feelings looks like - scary.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2955
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
You are adamant that you are right... about the 'BURDEN OF PROOF' and exactly what it is - then deflect the religious argument to a canned answer- then I ask a follow up question in seriousness and you deflect it with a joke... you have no clue how to discuss something like this. In NYC we say you da man.
Take a breath, for Heaven's and all the Angels' sake. This thread is about whether or not there are extraterrestrial visitors currently, or soon to be, among us. The "conversation" about that topic should really only take less than a page. There exists currently no evidence for the presence of "aliens". It's all speculation, hearsay and conspiracy mongering.

You are off on a tangent about "consciousness" and religion and subjective feelings, all of which topics are 1) not germane to the thread, and 2) to me, quite boring. Hence the snark.

I'm 67 and have seen a lot of life. I have been deeply involved in several religions. I've finally made peace with death/mortality/existential angst. I just don't care about any of that anymore. You are welcome to care and explore - but maybe you'd do better on a philosophy website.

Old 16th September 2019
  #2956
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Take a breath, for Heaven's and all the Angels' sake. This thread is about whether or not there are extraterrestrial visitors currently, or soon to be, among us. The "conversation" about that topic should really only take less than a page. There exists currently no evidence for the presence of "aliens". It's all speculation, hearsay and conspiracy mongering.

You are off on a tangent about "consciousness" and religion and subjective feelings, all of which topics are 1) not germane to the thread, and 2) to me, quite boring. Hence the snark.

I'm 67 and have seen a lot of life. I have been deeply involved in several religions. I've finally made peace with death/mortality/existential angst. I just don't care about any of that anymore. You are welcome to care and explore - but maybe you'd do better on a philosophy website.

It gets tricky when considering that a higher intelligence could be an "alien" and doesn't need to manifest in "physical form" as we know it. It gets tricky when considering that an "alien" / "higher intelligence" could possess technology that is indistinguishable from "God".

I think many people have experiences that give them some undeniable (to them, to their perceptions) that there is some kind of higher intelligence either in our midst or having somehow created the trajectory of our existence. Searching for this "higher intelligence" is a worthwhile pursuit, yet how can you do so in a scientific way? How can you express scientifically that "personal experiences indicative of the presence of some kind of ostensibly invisible intelligent force" are meaningful evidence?
Old 16th September 2019
  #2957
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slutter View Post
It gets tricky when considering that a higher intelligence could be an "alien" and doesn't need to manifest in "physical form" as we know it. It gets tricky when considering that an "alien" / "higher intelligence" could possess technology that is indistinguishable from "God".

I think many people have experiences that give them some undeniable (to them, to their perceptions) that there is some kind of higher intelligence either in our midst or having somehow created the trajectory of our existence. Searching for this "higher intelligence" is a worthwhile pursuit, yet how can you do so in a scientific way? How can you express scientifically that "personal experiences indicative of the presence of some kind of ostensibly invisible intelligent force" are meaningful evidence?
This is so true.- your (our world is not the whole truth) Why would people who do not believe in aliens even be on this thread. (shhh.... they KNOW they are missing something crucial?) Any way there is a strong connect between what many people think is an ;angel' and an 'alien' if (lol) angels exist can they not look like aliens or superman? When I see a few people come in and make a scientific argument of 'proof' and then they back pedal and twist not answering a follow up question... says it all... wilfull narrowmindedness becomes quite evident.

When someone says that they "finally made peace with death/mortality/existential angst" what the heck does that mean? When you are deeply involved with real spirituality... you do not say things like this. Let alone believe in something you can not prove to yourself. How ridiculous you sound when you were involved for years in something you say you can not prove yet turn around and say 'prove it to me' (that is not my job) thats your job and if you do it correctly you might have said 'I have come to grips with my IMmortality. I am sorry to hear that you are bitter about your search... I do wish you prosperity.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2958
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
I've spent a lot of money (not to mention time and energy) on my daughter to give her the best chances in life I can. She is now 19 and I am still doing it. Absent feelings, this is totally irrational behavior. Rationally I should spend as little money on her as possible to save more for me. I've been 100% consistent in this irrational behavior for 19 years. This is very strong evidence for feelings. Its is the only rational explanation. And it fits the pattern shared with 99.999% of fellow parents in the human race.

We all have many examples like this - proving you have feelings is not that difficult.

If you've ever encountered a sociopath you will know what the absence of feelings looks like - scary.
You said exactly what confirmed my statement. (You can not prove feelings exist.) There is evidence that 'feeling' exist. So what does that mean? you can prove it or not. This thread embodies the same thing you just said... there is evidence that a higher intelligence - aliens -ets & angels exist... yet you do not believe in them - yet you believe there are feelings?
Old 16th September 2019
  #2959
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
When someone says that they "finally made peace with death/mortality/existential angst" what the heck does that mean?
It means what it says. It's my life, my personal journey. I'm not asking anyone to understand it.
Quote:
When you are deeply involved with real spirituality... you do not say things like this.
What is "real" spirituality? Is there an accepted form of "spirituality"? How many people accept that version? Is real spirituality the same for everyone? There seem to be rules. Who says you don't say such things? You? Some Teacher?

Quote:
Let alone believe in something you can not prove to yourself.
I don't "believe in" anything. Therefore I have nothing to prove to myself.
Quote:
How ridiculous you sound when you were involved for years in something you say you can not prove yet turn around and say 'prove it to me' (that is not my job)
Nothing I said about my past experiences was about proving anything. That is something you are dealing with.
Quote:
thats your job and if you do it correctly you might have said 'I have come to grips with my IMmortality.
How does one do the job of living "correctly"? Let me paraphrase back to you what you just said to me:

"If you do the job of living your life correctly, the proper result will be that you come to grips with your immortality".

Now. If you fancy yourself a guru, fine. I fancy myself not one of your followers. Otherwise, I do hope you can hear how you sound to those who are not inside your own head.
Quote:
I am sorry to hear that you are bitter about your search...
Now THAT is called projection. I did not say I'm bitter. You did.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2960
Aliens do exist and they like to play after eating breakfast.



Old 16th September 2019
  #2961
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AfterViewer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Take a breath, for Heaven's and all the Angels' sake. This thread is about whether or not there are extraterrestrial visitors currently, or soon to be, among us. The "conversation" about that topic should really only take less than a page. There exists currently no evidence for the presence of "aliens". It's all speculation, hearsay and conspiracy mongering.

You are off on a tangent about "consciousness" and religion and subjective feelings, all of which topics are 1) not germane to the thread, and 2) to me, quite boring. Hence the snark.

I'm 67 and have seen a lot of life. I have been deeply involved in several religions. I've finally made peace with death/mortality/existential angst. I just don't care about any of that anymore. You are welcome to care and explore - but maybe you'd do better on a philosophy website.

Correction : This thread was never about "if" but "when". Aliens have been here and there for a long time (EarthTime).
Old 16th September 2019
  #2962
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterViewer View Post
Correction : This thread was never about "if" but "when".
November 19th, 19:43 Zulu.
Old 16th September 2019
  #2963
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carllock's Avatar
 

Damn, forgot about this thread I started over a decade ago...

They are out there!
Old 17th September 2019
  #2964
Hey guys, I almost missed it!

I began watching an excellent documentary, more like an active hunt for the truth about UFO's. Former U.S. Intelligence Officers, travel the world and conduct witness interviews regarding what they saw and experienced. It's not BS once you actually start watching the episodes. 8 new episodes on Season 1.

The series is titled " Contact" on the Discovery channel.

I'm really digging it!

https://www.discovery.com/shows/contact
Old 18th September 2019
  #2965
Breakdown of Native Oxide Enables Multifunctional, Free-Form Carbon Nanotube–Metal Hi

Quote:
...omnidirectional blackbody photoabsorption with the reflectance of 1 × 10–5 over the range from ultraviolet to terahertz region, which is 1 order of magnitude lower than that of any previously reported broadband absorber material. The synergistically incorporated CNT–metal hierarchical architectures offer record-high broadband optical absorption with excellent electrical and structural properties as well as industrial-scale producibility.
Source: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acsami.9b08290

Quote:
...this newfound nanotube structure is the blackest of black materials ever created, absorbing more than 99.996% of any light that touches it.

"Our material is 10 times blacker than anything that's ever been reported," lead study author Brian Wardle, a professor of aeronautics and astronautics at MIT,
Source: https://www.livescience.com/blackest...s-diamond.html

I suggest, fellow UFO enthusiasts, that we might look for extremely large airborne objects that are blacker than black and are capable of manipulating light; they are most visible at the edges or from an oblique angle whilst the 'craft' is slowly rotating. Look up.

This latest coating/material absorbs visible light by trapping photons in carbon nanotubes with the energy being emitted as heat (or perhaps some advanced electrical configuration). It's even darker than VantaBlack.

A quick coat of this on a studio wall would do wonders for early reflections at 2 octaves above the Schroeder Frequency and maybe beyond that.
Old 18th September 2019
  #2966
Gear Nut
 

Love these little hints from the MSM:

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/ufo-vid...y-acknowledges
Old 18th September 2019
  #2967
Gear Maniac
 
tweekyboo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Just like I said to OP you can not prove you have feelings or have love of... something... it;s pure supposition... prove that you even care about your answer, Oh I was mislead by a botty trait. LOL
Except your supposed arguments are off topic and delving into philosophical nonsense.
Old 18th September 2019
  #2968
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweekyboo View Post
Except your supposed arguments are off topic and delving into philosophical nonsense.
The question (is/was off topic to begin with) I just answered the question. In fact you chimed in saying "People claim to have seen god and angels with wildly differing interpretations, there is no collective agreement on what constitutes gods or angels, yet people go to war over these so-called 'truths'. Facts matter, facts can be proven"

You have a short pointed memory - When someone says it is absolute that the burden of proof is the one making the statement... I was saying if one believes it is the truth there is no "burden" - this was rhetorical nonsense that led to 'hard problem'. This thread is about searching for proof for those who do not believe. SO proof is more relevant than you think.

This was a DRIVE BY by you fueling that facts can be proven which was OT by your definition.... I see through this - just drop it and move on...
Old 18th September 2019
  #2969
Gear Head
 
S_mask's Avatar
 

It would be neat if advanced alien beings appeared and gave us some hope. More likely, they'd want 'to serve mankind' for supper... But it would be futile to attempt to 'fly' across the universe because it would take too long to get anywhere to be worthwhile, even if traveling at light speed. On the other hand, if you can bypass the intervening space and time because you have a gravity motor and can make your own personal worm hole, then you don't need a UFO... You just walk through a small-to-you passageway and appear. So the UFO meme, while quaint, is a left-over fantasy from the time when dreamers had no critical thinking skills. Slutz (Ladies, take no offense; Chaucer first used the word, 'sluttish', to describe certain males) know better. BAMN.
Old 18th September 2019
  #2970
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Can you prove there is no life after death? That does not mean it does not exist.
It doesn't mean it does exist either.
For the very same reasons you can't prove that after death you turn into a luke-warm cup of tea in 5 dimensions. You can't prove it doesn't happen!!

You have to ask yourself, if you can't prove it either way, why believe in such an arbitrary thing? Why not believe in any of the countless other arbitrary things that may or may not happen to you after death?
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