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Hip Hop (diss or defend it here so we dont have to read it elswhere)
Old 20th July 2005
  #241
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

not taking it hard son, ain't mad at you.........just expressing my view of your comments, like all the other "GREAT" comments on this forum.

but now I can rephase......
Quote:
and the world adds another "TRAINED"ass to its collection.....free of charge

And what the hell it a hip hopper? heh

both of my parents played music
I listen to and produce urban music.
I also arrange sheet music(listen to songs and wrote out musical notes) for many bands, since 1989(11th grade high school). WOW, that kinda makes me trained too........'Ol snap
I luv Jazz and Big Band songs
I listen to orchs,
I listen to Opera (sometimes)
I listen to country(untempo stuff)

ok I get .........a hip hopper is a person whos hips enoughs tos hops froms ones types of musices tos the nexts. Cool.....Izz schooled man......DAM I forgives yous
Old 20th July 2005
  #242
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane
our generation.
Very nice post soultrane. If it makes you feel better, as much as I could suck as a musician.. i'm not money driven.

Either way, if you step out of your music lover outfit for a sec. You will notice that music is, and will always be a source of entertainment. And nothing else but that.
Now the big question is, do you wan't to entertain yourself ? your dogs, cats.. ? or the world ?

I chose to entertain the world. I owe it to the people. hahahahaa

I'm in a funny mood today. 1 hour ago my drummer called to say he quits and we haven't even started to practice hahaha
Old 20th July 2005
  #243
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
I'm in a funny mood today. 1 hour ago my drummer called to say he quits and we haven't even started to practice hahaha

lol...man u cant let me go..call him back let him know he's the only drummer in the world

Old 20th July 2005
  #244
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruphus
Already accomplished.
Got good critiques by persons in the know, but the marketing was weak. heh

Ruphus
aja! see, I knew there was something behind your long posts.
Old 20th July 2005
  #245
jordan19 
Guest
[email protected] the drummer comment

i know how you feel. i sat through auditioning a vocalist yesterday. suddenly i have a newfound respect for American Idol judges. God there is NOTHING worse than listening to an out-of-tune singer STRAINNNNNN to reach notes.

*covers ears*

This guy made Biz Markie sound like Pavarotti
Old 20th July 2005
  #246
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic
lol...man u cant let me go..call him back let him know he's the only drummer in the world
I need a singular drummer. Anyone interested PM me. Located in beautiful Bolivia. Where everything sucks. But food is great.
Old 20th July 2005
  #247
no ssl yet 
Guest
Mannnn

Guys I'm glad I am one of the few who understand music yet "
Get" hip hop.

When I said "those who are scared teach" I meant that many opt for the guaranteed salary albeit a lower salary.


Now to the belief that everyone is a critic. Well I'd rather please the masses than a few. Soul my friend you say you "get" hip hop. Yet you see it as simple.

SO you are one of those who can that "DO" POST A SONG. Since hip hop is so simplistic, surely someone with your talent/background who "gets" hip hop can post a better song than ever right?

Guys I think the fact that "I believe" was written in a dream and not worked out over time as more "complex " music (according to soul's definition of complex LOL)

PRoves the beauty of the song. OF course it's easy to learn. Of course on the surface it seems like nothing complex. The dream that it was conceived in lends to our discussion the one element that cannot be found in the Complexities of trained musicians' worlds


INSPIRATION.

Its not the most "COMPLEX" song. BUT its one of the BEST songs ever. (I guess the rapper side of me is about to speak ) check the sound scan
Old 20th July 2005
  #248
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet

PRoves the beauty of the song. OF course it's easy to learn. Of course on the surface it seems like nothing complex. The dream that it was conceived in lends to our discussion the one element that cannot be found in the Complexities of trained musicians' worlds


INSPIRATION.

Its not the most "COMPLEX" song. BUT its one of the BEST songs ever. (I guess the rapper side of me is about to speak ) check the sound scan
no ssl;

you're not arguing w. what i think...

you're arguing w. what u think i think...

u said dead homies was an example of emotional (sad) hiphop

i said it was a generic track w. an emotional lyric.

i said "yesterday" is a sad song (harmony / melody) with a sad lyric.

now u say yesterday (which u call "i believe") is a great song, but soultrane hates it because its too simple.

seriously...

u aren't following too closely...

the reason i pointed out yesterday was to praise it as an example of mood/lyrics going hand and hand...

not lyrics going on top of generic track...
Old 20th July 2005
  #249
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet
Guys I'm glad I am one of the few who understand music yet "
Get" hip hop.

SO you are one of those who can that "DO" POST A SONG.
i can't post a hiphop song for you because you will not get it, because it is too simple for you.

that's right... you keep saying hiphop is too simple for me to "get".... let me tell you, my hiphop is the simplest of all!!!

yup... most hiphop has kick drum.... i got rid of the kick drum, 'cuz i was tired of hearing snobby cats talk about how fat their kick drum sounds were...

and snare drums? sheeeit if i hear another elistist cat talk about he put john bonham's snare thru the filter on the mpc 60 i'm gonna puke. such complexity!

i got rid of the snaredrum...

and then, all these complicated lyrics... all these mc's flowing off the beat, like common and black thought and what not...hell, it got so complicated, it was likfe if u came up w. a simple rap, cats would criticise just like they criticised the early rap for not having a melody.

i wanted to capture the essence of the real EARLY hiphop.... even earlier.... so, i took out the lyrics/rap all together...

that's right... i got hip hop w. no kick, no snare, and no lyric...

i got cowbell...

but if i post it, you won't get it... 'cuz you look thru the eyes of complexity... wanting all those fat kicks, snares, and badass lyrics....
Old 20th July 2005
  #250
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet
INSPIRATION.
That was a great one. heh Even better than Jose´s drummer joke!
So that means, the less variety, at best only one single song since over 20 years, and that even consisting of a looped fraction of a musical piece ...
Restrictiing oneself to that one pattern again and again for decades ...

... >sratch, scratch<


... That is inspiration?
VERY interesting.

So all the other things, those styles which consist of many songs, and those songs again of different rhythms and melodies, and those melodies and rhythms again vayring within their length and structure ...

What is the energy behind that then?
A nuclear process, or something galactical?

Or wait, ... All the diversity of creation might only be to cover the escape from the art of monotonism. Because rebuilding over and over again the same thing which consists of an excerpt ... that could be what is called inspiration.

Let me rethink that again.
>goes rethinking<

Ruphus
Old 20th July 2005
  #251
jordan19 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane
i can't post a hiphop song for you because you will not get it, because it is too simple for you.

that's right... you keep saying hiphop is too simple for me to "get".... let me tell you, my hiphop is the simplest of all!!!

yup... most hiphop has kick drum.... i got rid of the kick drum, 'cuz i was tired of hearing snobby cats talk about how fat their kick drum sounds were...

and snare drums? sheeeit if i hear another elistist cat talk about he put john bonham's snare thru the filter on the mpc 60 i'm gonna puke. such complexity!

i got rid of the snaredrum...

and then, all these complicated lyrics... all these mc's flowing off the beat, like common and black thought and what not...hell, it got so complicated, it was likfe if u came up w. a simple rap, cats would criticise just like they criticised the early rap for not having a melody.

i wanted to capture the essence of the real EARLY hiphop.... even earlier.... so, i took out the lyrics/rap all together...

that's right... i got hip hop w. no kick, no snare, and no lyric...

i got cowbell...

but if i post it, you won't get it... 'cuz you look thru the eyes of complexity... wanting all those fat kicks, snares, and badass lyrics....
pure genius.
Old 21st July 2005
  #252
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I know a few people who grew up in poverty, and everything is about money to them.
if someone is playing with complexities (music, technology, hobbies), for the sake of developing ideas and mind games, they would think he is a silly dreamer and not be interested in anything he does. but if he sells the stuff, suddenly he is the great guy.

it seems also that many so called musicians develop their skills and songs only to the point where they sell enough. if 1 chord and 3 sounds are selling, why bother ?
if its a band and they play for parties, or dance facilities, they stop rehearsing when they make it through 'yesterday', 'satisfaction', some country, 'lets get loud' and 'hey ya' without falling over.

the conflict comes with "respect". the usa are the country where you get the most respect for making money, seems to me. when someone says it does not mean anything to me if you make money with what I think is crap, insult is big.

but where is the vision? we would still sit in the trees when humans had the general opinion that they should stop trying, as soon as they got enough to eat.

back to hip-hop. is it so, that a basic idea in it is, to develop some talent and then make money with it, and finally to be respected? and competition makes people develop more talent, until they sell better, or give in.
but then, a classic musician says, you are getting no respect at all from me because this is less than music what you do. and then, do they work in their jobs only so hard to feed their families? an entrepreneur would certainly work for the matter itself, because he is fascinated with the business and the branche. he would keep heads smoking, just to go a step ahead from all others, and to explore things no one else has. but his workers are struggling 9 to 5 and then have a beer and forget all about it.

so, who are the workers and who are the entrepreneurs in hip-hop?
as soon as someone sells, he seems to have a golden bedroom, and not bother writing more complex music. sometimes they produce with other cats, to have a share in their sales also, but the whole thing does not change life in the communities where they came from. they don't bother.

is it the idea, when you have money, then you have done enough and can hang around?
if money came from hip-hop, then work was even more fun, and should get even more respect?

but if they want respect from the "establishment", or from people of other countries, disappointment is raising, because these more international people don't bother how much money someone makes (except bill gates et al), but what his behavior, culture, skills in music, language, chinese cooking etc. are, and how much influence his thoughts have outside of his community.
Old 21st July 2005
  #253
no ssl yet 
Guest
Soultrane

First of all IT was you that said IF I couldnt see some other MC spitting on another topic on Ice Cube's "generic" track that I lack imagination.

So I'm saying. Please Bless us all with some of your genius. POST an Mp3 of your work. OF course with your musical background and your knowledge of all that is missing fromm hip hop You can take it/us higher right?

You said you've sold hip hop tracks, (But then you said you were "THERE" when tracks were made)


Man if you have a history in rap, you will know that a producer making a track and having MCs pick one is a CURRENT trend. When BDP, KOOL G Rap, Rakim were the hot artists, It was different. Writers wrote. THEy would have notebooks full of songs. And music would be made to fit the lyrics.
DO you remember this???
Old 23rd July 2005
  #254
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

mannnnnnnnnnnnnn, i just got back from a club one of our DJs did. Old school HipHop night..........off the chain. **** I haven't heard in yyyyyyears. All 12"vinyl

It was mind blowing how well some of the songs were put together back then, with the quality of gear and the so called "Lack Of Knowledge" dfegad

truely creative, truely creative........how the producers combined different samples from all kinds of songs to make new beats. Then way they "Chopped" drum beats to make different drum kits. kick , snare, hats.

Yes........ the game has changed. But I guess its just evolution
Old 26th July 2005
  #255
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LewisWu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruphus
BTW, swing ... Ever observed how people dance to hihop and techno?
Actually it is not like dancing. It´s stepping from one foot to the other if the feet are moved at all while what is moved are arms and hands.

That shows the lack of bodily inspiring musicality.
When you dance to what I would consider advanced music like rock, salsa, flamenco, tango, polka whatever ... the music moves you entirely. When it is pulling it moves your whole body and not only that, but it makes you moving variably throghout the songs. That´s what I consider systematical variety.
The opposite of a chuggling diesel engine.
Ruphus
you obviously haven't seen truly skilled funk stylists move their bodies then...

and if you actually took the time to study the funk styles, you would realize that the amount of thought and coordination put into the movement is truly amazing...

many of the roots of modern funk styles come from european mime and pantomime techniques...

for example, most people see back gliding and call it the "the Moon walk," which in reality is a circular motion created my carefull weight management. the back glide is one of those mime techniques.

I am not talking about current hiphop dance forms, like harlem shimmy sham or the c-walk, or clumping? rather I am talking about the funk styles, locking, popping, strutting, Tutting, waving, flexing (which, btw, has roots in korea, and japan) Ticking...

Popping came out of the club experience, when there was no room to dance around, because the club is crowded. thats part of the reason that it looks like the dancer is not moving, but look at Mr. Jackson, he used to be able to take up as much space as he needed to, without ever taking his feet off of the ground.

Hip hop won't be taken seriously by the rest of the listening public until hip hop takes itself seriously... How many times do I have to hear a "MC" who is signed to a major label, because his friend ___________(insert big thyme producer here) "made" the track sound "hot", who when it comes time for the performance, sounds like the guy around the corner saying things like " off the top of the dome"
or the words freestyle to describe what they are doing... shouldn't it be self explanitory?

oddly enough the crowd loves it...

I have seen KRS-1, he wasn't yelling or swallowing a mic, he didn't reference his head, and never once did I hear him say the word free style...

I have also had the experience of waiting outside a concert hall waiting to be entertained only to find a PA that has way too much low end, so much in fact that you can barely hear the music, and performers that think that waving their arms at the crowd while they swallow a mic is a show.

I watched Steve Vai (a Real Musician) stare down someone, who was giving him dirty looks, durring a solo... that solo lasted until the guy fainted...

Lets see a rapper make someone pass out via staring contest
Old 26th July 2005
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisWu

Lets see a rapper make someone pass out via staring contest
maybe not pass out but I can guarantee a riot will ensue

heh
Old 26th July 2005
  #257
How did dis go?
Old 26th July 2005
  #258
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Hip hop won't be taken seriously by the rest of the listening public until hip hop takes itself seriously...
What do you mean? and who the hell wants to pass out? for what? its not the serious, really....
Old 26th July 2005
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic
What do you mean? and who the hell wants to pass out? for what? its not the serious, really....
I think he means the clowns that are acting like an 80's ROCK BAND.......or any POP star that reaches its pinnacle...and commercially rap has done that IMHO
Old 27th July 2005
  #260
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LewisWu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
How did dis go?
it was like watching mr Vai cut heads with someone, but by the end of his statement the other individual had nothing to say...

not that the guy was in a position to duel via guitars with Mr Vai, but that was what it was like... a guitar duel...

I agree with Teacher... Modern Rap music, especially the heavily comercialized variety is getting to the point where it is as flamboyant as 80 glam rock... Last time I went to a club to hear "live hip hop", I was treated to a dj, and two guys who were talking about money and european cars.

i remember listening to black sheep, when they would talk about the misogynistic views that some of their peers held toward women... or when De la talks about the importance of contraceptives and the possible outcomes of not using them... those are social comentaries. when Krs-1 talks about the government, he is making political comentary... very few hiphop artists are socially and politically conscious, most of the time they are too self absorbed to realize that they are talking about nothing, at least nothing of importance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic
What do you mean? and who the hell wants to pass out? for what? its not the serious, really....
asking who wants to pass out is a red herring...
Old 31st July 2005
  #261
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Humm, i see

peep this:

you specialize in boat building and there are only a hand full of boat building companies that hired boat builders, such as yourself. Each one of the boat building companies all want to build and sell the same type of boats. But you don't like the boats that they want. But with your knowlegde and yrs of exp. they really want to hire you and make you the king of all boat builders. Do to take the job and makes lots of money or do you quit and find another field?

it's hard, i know......maybe you can you change from within, without getting fired or even qut and start you on company.
Old 31st July 2005
  #262
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De chromium cob's Avatar
 

Try and catch Bill Maher's new HBO special "I'm Swiss"- Towards the end he 'translates' a number of rap lyrics into normal english...Very funny ****.... heh
Old 1st August 2005
  #263
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

I laughed myself silly at that Bill Maher show.
Old 1st August 2005
  #264
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
we TiVo'd the show ... thanks for he reminder to watch it, tonight!
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