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Hip Hop (diss or defend it here so we dont have to read it elswhere)
Old 20th July 2005
  #181
no ssl yet 
Guest
emotional

Guys forgive me if I'm off topic. I havent been reading the thread (I've been working )

Emotional hip hop


Ice Cube "Dead homies"

Also another (but its one I made) IF you wanna hear it, I'll post it
Old 20th July 2005
  #182
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Hip Hop (diss or defend it here so we dont have to read it elswhere)
Does anyone has an "ADDING MACHINE"

when it comes down to it................Defense formation,


Quote:
SoundScan Album Sales 07/14/2005

1 KELLY*R. TP.3 RELOADED 490,541 Sold to Date: 495,334 (almost Gold)
2 ELLIOTT*MISSY COOKBOOK 175,665 Sold to Date: 176,984
4 CAREY*MARIAH EMANCIPATION OF MIMI 115,554
Sold to Date: 2,413,871 (Double Platinum)
5 YING YANG TWINS UNITED STATE OF ATLANTA 100,547
Sold to Date:302,900
7 BLACK EYED PEAS MONKEY BUSINESS 75,406 Sold to Date: 713,001
8 WEBBIE SAVAGE LIFE 68,186 Sold to Date: 68,708
12 JONES*MIKE WHO IS MIKE JONES? 55,210
Sold to Date: 748,152 (Gold)
17 50 CENT MASSACRE 42,891 Sold to Date: 4,065,215 (4 x Platinum)
22 CASSIDY I'M A HUSTLA 37,483 Sold to Date: 130,683
26 BOYZ N DA HOOD BOYZ N DA HOOD 31,022 Sold to Date: 178,917
27 PRETTY RICKY BLUE STARS 30,142 Sold to Date: 264,276
30 CIARA GOODIES 29,226 Sold to Date: 2,153,907 (2 x platinum)
32 HAMILTON*ANTHONY SOULIFE 28,871 Sold to Date: 82,156
35 COMMON BE 27,196 Sold to Date: 454,042
39 JENNINGS*LYFE LYFE 23,088 Sold to Date: 486,136
40 COLE*KEYSHIA WAY IT IS 21,666 Sold to Date: 140,853 (flop)
42 KEM ALBUM II 20,789 Sold to Date: 373,390
43 SMITH*WILL LOST & FOUND 20,363 -Sold to Date: 546,360 (Gold)
48 FAT JOE ALL OR NOTHING 19,552 Sold to Date: 187,192 (flop)
52 AKON TROUBLE 18,980 Sold to Date: 1,090,985 (Platinum)
57 DESTINY'S CHILD DESTINY FULFILLED 16,748 Sold to Date: 2,753,584 (2 x Platinum)
59 GAME DOCUMENTARY Sold to Date: 2,124,699 (2 x Platinum)
60 VALENTINO*BOBBY DTP PRESENTS BOBBY VALENTINO 16,219 -
Sold to Date: 461,891
61 BIRDMAN FAST MONEY 15,569 Sold to Date: 107,289 (flop)
63 LEGEND*JOHN GET LIFTED 15,156 Sold to Date: 1,280,236 (Platinum)
71 EMINEM ENCORE 13,759 Sold to Date: 4,687,766 ( 4 x Platinum)
74 DADDY YANKEE BARRIO FINO 13,491 Sold to Date: 712,089 (Gold)
78 LABELLE*PATTI CLASSIC MOMENTS 13,096 Sold to Date: 70,434
85 LUDACRIS RED LIGHT DISTRICT 12,551 Sold to Date: 1,807,866 (Platinum)
88 FANTASIA FREE YOURSELF 2,332 Sold to Date: 1,533,242 (Platinum)
92 DIARY OF A MAD BLACK WOMAN SOUNDTRACK 11,267 Sold to Date: 140,990
95 HOUSTON*MARQUES NAKED 11,091 Sold to Date: 156,324 (flop)
108 T.I. URBAN LEGEND 9,466 Sold to Date: 1,132,486 (Platinum)
112 OMARION O 9,330 Sold to Date: 573,460
114 DEVAUGHN*RAHEEM LOVE EXPERIENCE 9,223 -Sold to Date: 31,334
115 USHER CONFESSIONS 9,102 Sold to Date: 8,989,565 (8 x Platinum)
117 AMERIE TOUCH 9,014 Sold to Date: 300,555
128 112 PLEASURE & PAIN 8,220 Sold to Date: 407,752
130 MASTER P GHETTO BILL (BEST HUSTLER IN T 8,051
Sold to Date: 46,879 (flop)
131 TLC NOW & FOREVER 8,019 Sold to Date: 39,354
138 MCCLURKIN*DONNIE PSALMS HYMNS & SPIRITUAL SONGS 7,483 -Sold to Date: 168,769
140 JODECI BACK TO THE FUTURE 7,427 Sold to Date: 75,520
141 LIL JON & THE EAST SIDE BOYZ CRUNK JUICE 7,423
Sold to Date: 2,254,827
156 BONE THUGS-N-HARMONY GREATEST HITS 6,751
Sold to Date: 277,059
159 CHARLES*RAY GENIUS LOVES COMPANY 6,508
-Sold to Date:2,998,916 (2 x Platinum)
160 EVANS*FAITH FIRST LADY 6,507 Sold to Date: 413,286
178 REGGAE GOLD 2005 REGGAE GOLD 2005 5,751 Sold to Date: 24,826
181 GUCCI MANE TRAP HOUSE 5,579 Sold to Date: 53,812
182 B.G. HEART OF THA STREET 5,477 Sold to Date: 117,345
185 MARIO TURNING POINT 5,370 Sold to Date: 1,111,453
193 LUNY TUNES & BABY RANKS MAS FLOW 2 5,144 (Platinum)
Sold to Date: 130,723
196 KEYS*ALICIA DIARY OF ALICIA KEYS 5,074 -Sold to Date: 4,292,314 (4 x Platinum)
Old 20th July 2005
  #183
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan19
I really wish there were more black people into rock music. Hell, millions of white people are into rap music.
MOTHER'S FINEST ? heh still touring... sometimes very very metal...
Old 20th July 2005
  #184
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet
Guys forgive me if I'm off topic. I havent been reading the thread (I've been working )

Emotional hip hop


Ice Cube "Dead homies"

Also another (but its one I made) IF you wanna hear it, I'll post it

man, i checked that track... question...

if u pulled the lyric about the dead homie and replaced it w. a lyric about, say, being the best lyricist on the west coast... would it still fit the track?

yes, i think it would, as that track is 3 chords and a noodling sax over the generic hiphop halftime shuffle; in other words, sounds alot like most generic hiphop.

in fact, this track more or less brings focus to this whole thread...

this is NOT a music composition....

it's the START of a music composition repeated for 3 1/2 minutes w. a lyric put on top of it...

brings up another point about hiphop...

in most music, the lyric (if there is one) and the music go hand in hand... if u think of a tune like "yesterday" by the beatles, for example...

when the songwriter was writing the tune, he first came up w. the melancholoy sounding melody... (i believe the original lyric was "scrambled eggs...")

he then crafted the lyric to fit w. the melody / harmony....

an instrumental version of "yesterday" has the same melancholy wistful vibe as the lyrical version...

in the majority of hiphop tracks, there's a producer (beatmaker) toiling away on his mpc/emu/reason/logic/fruity loops...

when he comes up with what he feels is a usable track, a lyricist is brought in after the fact to put a lyric on top of the beat...

i don't know the story behind "dead homies" but i'would be surprised to find if the lyricist started out to make a *track* about dead homies before he added the lyric to it...

that's the very definition of "off the rack..."
Old 20th July 2005
  #185
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic
Does anyone has an "ADDING MACHINE"

when it comes down to it................Defense formation,
hey; if you take 50cent and ciara out of the equation... the top selling artists are, in order

usher
alicia keys
ray charles
destiny's child
mariah carey

well... that's some heavyweight talent...

btw, the ciara thing reminds me...

u guys do realize, right, then when you're writing tunes for edm0nds, for example, yah, they put u in a nice production studio w. a great vocal booth and fantastic herbal teas....

but they also give u a list of words u have to include in your lyrics...

words like.... escalade...
words like.... hennesy

why?

u think you're an artist working for yourself... but you're really working in the marketing department for general motors...

except gm's not paying you... they're paying mrs. edm0nds
Old 20th July 2005
  #186
jordan19 
Guest
Arrow

hey nukmusic, i don't know if you're just being sarcastic, or if you really are that dumb, but dude you need some serious grammar lessons judging by your last few posts. seriously man. that's just sad.

and perhaps you've missed the entire thread, but sales are irrelevent. we all acknowledged that hip-hop is a big seller.

it's about quality, not quantity. MCDONALDS sells millions of hamburgers each week; it doesn't make them a 5-star restaurant. that's what hip-hop reminds me of... a fast food chain. they sequence some programmed drums, sample some pre-recorded instruments, put down some catchy synth hooks, and loop the **** out of it for 2 minutes and 59 seconds while they rap some cool lyrics over the top. hey, a lot of that **** sounds cool. but mcdonalds tastes pretty good now and then too.
Old 20th July 2005
  #187
no ssl yet 
Guest
I absolutely disagree

I disagree with everything you said about the Ice Cube track. call it simplistic if you choose, but since when does music have to be complex to be artistic. It's simple nature (IMO) leaves space for the vocal. When you sell a record, you dont sell an instrumental and some lyrics on top. What you sell is the song/experience. What you hear is what you get. THis encompasses the music/lyric/mood/etc... THE ENTIRE PICTURE.. I dont think you could put another rap about being the most lyrical on top and have it work.. Maybe you just dont get it. THis is a track from one of the simplest eras in rap production. (I picked it on purpose). Yet, It for me conveys what Cube was trying to get across. It may sound alot like most generic hip hop (TO YOU) but I disagree.

This is the part you are missing. Music is not made to be disected/broken down like saying "Man it's only 3 chords and a sax sample How complex is that?" If it were that simple there would not be some rap that's better than other rap. ARe you able (honestly) to discern good rap from bad??? Do you know the difference or does it all sound like generic music that anyone could rap anything to?.

Maybe(and this is not intended as an insult)
IT's YOU

When Speaking of the Beatles you said

when the songwriter was writing the tune, he first came up w. the melancholoy sounding melody... (i believe the original lyric was "scrambled eggs...")


But then you say Ice cube wanted something a track that said "dead homies"

While I see the point you are trying to make, you fail to remember often the songwriter and composer are different people. Rap is often a similiar arrangement. It's often the composer "discovers" a melancholoy chord progression while looking for something else, and then lyrics are written to fit the mood of what the music "says"

YOU may not see it, but IMO rap is often created via a similiar process.

Since when is music determined "music" by the number of chords played?
Old 20th July 2005
  #188
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet
I disagree with everything you said about the Ice Cube track. call it simplistic if you choose, but since when does music have to be complex to be artistic. It's simple nature (IMO) leaves space for the vocal. When you sell a record, you dont sell an instrumental and some lyrics on top. What you sell is the song/experience. What you hear is what you get. THis encompasses the music/lyric/mood/etc... THE ENTIRE PICTURE.. I dont think you could put another rap about being the most lyrical on top and have it work.. Maybe you just dont get it. THis is a track from one of the simplest eras in rap production. (I picked it on purpose). Yet, It for me conveys what Cube was trying to get across. It may sound alot like most generic hip hop (TO YOU)

This is the part you are missing. Music is not made to be broken down like saying "Man it's only 3 chords and a sax sample How complex is that?" If it were that simple there would not be some rap that's better than other rap
i don't think it needs to be complex to be artistic. i agree that a simple piece can be artistic. "yesterday" is a pretty simple piece... i think it's only like 140 seconds or something like that... chopin's prelude in e-minor is built around 2 melody notes...

but u really think that track is custom built for the lyric "dead homies?" u really can't imagine any other lyric that would flow over that track? u don't have much imagination then... (heh heh)

please find out for me if the lyric came first and the track was built around it...

i just listened to it again...

one thing i will say about it... when we were talking about whether people will listen to this stuff when they're old...

i changed my mind.... geezers on death's door will probably listen to it... because it sure makes 3:53 seconds seem like a long long time...

ps... how do u judge better rap? on what basis do u consider it good?
Old 20th July 2005
  #189
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

theres really no point in comparing a beatle melody line, with hip-hop.

that doesn't mean hip-hop is easy to do either. The only people capable of doing a good hip-hop tune and a great rock song should be commenting on how much talent one takes compared to the other.

I personaly can't rap nor have any interest in hip-hop, I don't think one should discredit the talent it takes if you can't do it.

Calling yesterday a simple song made me loose credibility in soultrane. I personaly think it's one of the most complex songs ever created.
Old 20th July 2005
  #190
jordan19 
Guest
it's not a very complex tune. melodically it's pure perfection- the way it flows from beginning to end. but harmonically it's just basic progressions.

but i agree with ssl; the simplest things are oftentimes the hardest to work with, because you can only have a limited number of tools at your disposal in order to make the song interesting. i'm not sure i buy that argument as a complete defense for the amount of bland songwriting value in hip-hop...
Old 20th July 2005
  #191
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane
...the greatest musicians in history, as it seems to me, avoided putting marketplace considerations at the forefront, generally speaking...
I've seen NO evidence of this AT ALL!

After a musician is earning a good living, they can afford to create less commercial music and that can make them more popular with critics. The fact remains that every music career is built on pleasing fans, corporate sponsors, wealthy patrons and in most cases ALL of these.
Old 20th July 2005
  #192
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

It is so refershing to my eyes to see someone writing straight about the state of the simple stuff of theses days without being afraid of colliding with the common direction and to be simply disclaimed as unhip, one-sided or whatever could serve for a imagined cause of missing absent quality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane
it's the START of a music composition repeated for 3 1/2 minutes w. a lyric put on top of it...
This is it. Exactly.
That is what I thought first time I heard it and what personnally nerves me each time again when exposed to it.
Hihop is a repeated fraction.
And that is what should exhaust any listener who appreciates accomplished music. It is like a chick that would give you a French kiss only to disappear already. And looping it all the time won´t make the initial action more pulling, rather then disturbingly asking for follow-up, already.

It is like a guy who knows the first three bars from House of The Rising Sun and cycles it. A spotty teenager once now as a seasoned guy still doing those three bars in cycles.

Obviously the consequence of a slice invention. It had no accruement and there followed no development.
Still a starting song like a jumping needle on a venyl.

I always think if you had told the people in the seventies that this mechanical, broken thing would stay for decades noone would had thought that possible. They would had considered it an absurd joke of a suggestion.

Hiphop, techno and the vast of modern art to me have been the final absolute prove that you can shove ANYthing down peoples cultur throats. Only requirements being media presence and hip scenes. After a while consumers will think it´s their personal discovery and taste. No way around that and no matter what object it is about at all.

Bob Olhsson once objected that there are also pieces through major media that just flop. I think those cases as a cause must have unfinished marketing or limited resources, nothing else.

If the distribution parameters are sufficient you can make a new style of pot leads falling on tiles sound. Give it a huge bottom and some synth sparkle and there you go. New CDs, new clothings, new movies, new trend line.

No worries, consumers will find the art in it by all means. And should there be nothing left to say about educated demand they will point out sales numbers. Something selling much can´t be demandless, can it?

Ruphus
Old 20th July 2005
  #193
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
but sales are irrelevent.

man o man........LMAO now that my friend is the dumBest **** i have every hhhhhheard.

let me say it again

NOW THAT MY FRIEND IS THE DUMBEST **** I HAVE EVERY HEARD

Excuse me for being off topic:

...............everything comes down to the dollar. You need to research the word "Business" and what businesses do. Maybe u missed the boat, maybe a few boats. So for all those who always have negative comments in every rap/hiphop/r&b post. It's here to stay. I guess McD will stop selling Fast food because they are not a 5 star restaurant............ and Behringer is going to stop sell gear because its not of great quality, while many other companies make clones of originals. All i'm saying is that I don't give a **** what folks think or how they view urban folks.......something must be going right if something we created have went from "It will never last" to "Its still here". SO stop all the prejudgements.

carry on dfegad, and again excuse me
Old 20th July 2005
  #194
jordan19 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic

NOW THAT MY FRIEND IS THE DUMBEST **** I HAVE EVERY HEARD
Like I said earlier, grammar lessons bro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic
everything comes down to the dollar.
Everything comes down to the dollar? That's a pretty bold statement pal. And a very ignorant one.

Do you put a dollar value on everything? Love? Friendship? Emotion? Art?

I don't. Or, actually, I can't.

Sales are irrelevent to artistic merit. I didn't say sales are unimportant. Hell, we've got to make money to survive. But sales are most certainly not a BENCHMARK for what's good and what isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic
You need to research the word "Business" and what businesses do.
But that's the problem with most of you hip-hop guys. It's all business. You're hustlers, going for the quick dollar everywhere. So if you view music simply as a business, then you're right; the dollar is everything.

(oh, and p.s. I am "urban folks." )
Old 20th July 2005
  #195
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson
I've seen NO evidence of this AT ALL!

After a musician is earning a good living, they can afford to create less commercial music and that can make them more popular with critics. The fact remains that every music career is built on pleasing fans, corporate sponsors, wealthy patrons and in most cases ALL of these.
with respect, bob, i disagree here;

first, there is a question of degree. certainly, john coltrane was not as interested in moving units as 50 Cent?

art tatum, when practicing 12 hrs a day at age 16, was probably not thinking abot learning just enough piano to be able to get money making gigs; if he was, then he gave new meaning to the term "overkill."

if chopin put these considerations at the fore, he would've written 5x's the music he did, and he wouldn't have sweat all day over a 2 bar passage.

when stravinsky was asked to do a film score (which would've given him more money than he had made up to that date) he said, "yes, i'll do it; it will take me 2 years." hence, stravinsky was never hired to score a film.

i've known many great jazzmen who have turned down recording dates / tours / chances to make lots of money because they didn't like the music involved.

the number of musicians who really make a historical mark that lasts are, of course, very few. if u examine that list, some made lots of money, some made a little, and some made hardly any at all...

but none of them, as far as i can tell, did what they did primarily to maximize their income...

i think of the letter such and such viscount sent to mozart's father; "your son would do much better in his career if he had half as much talent and twice as much diplomacy."

probably true... but then, who would know his name today?
Old 20th July 2005
  #196
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

Power? heh U know what the hell i mean son.

Name one artist that doesn't sell his/her music????
Name one record label that signs an artists to release the music as free give aways???
Name one rcording studio that lets any and every musician record for free???

Name one song of any genre that you can say(truely say) it does sound like another song previously made or the lyrics topic doesn't pertain to something said on another.
and just first you need an "ADDING MACHINE" to count to number of songs every created


I too read alot of the prejudge statements made.....and I don't agree with the topics and images of urban music.

I also arrange music(sheet music) for marching bands, junior high, high school and college bands. So i get to hear different songs of different types, both old and new, over and over again. Some I don't like at all, but If i dont do it someone else will. So why not have more cheese to feed my family.

Quote:
The fact remains that every music career is built on pleasing fans, corporate sponsors, wealthy patrons and in most cases ALL of these.
dito
Old 20th July 2005
  #197
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
theres really no point in comparing a beatle melody line, with hip-hop.

that doesn't mean hip-hop is easy to do either. The only people capable of doing a good hip-hop tune and a great rock song should be commenting on how much talent one takes compared to the other.

I personaly can't rap nor have any interest in hip-hop, I don't think one should discredit the talent it takes if you can't do it.

Calling yesterday a simple song made me loose credibility in soultrane. I personaly think it's one of the most complex songs ever created.

"yesterday" is one of the most complex songs ever created?

do u play an instrument?

i can teach a beginning student how to play yesterday on the piano, with the original chords and in the original key, within 3 months of lessons; i've done this many times.

luckily, we don't stop studying the instrument after they've mastered "yesterday." because they're still a good 12 months of solid practice away from being able to play "stardust" or "stella by starlight..."
Old 20th July 2005
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruphus
If the distribution parameters are sufficient you can make a new style of pot leads falling on tiles sound. Give it a huge bottom and some synth sparkle and there you go. New CDs, new clothings, new movies, new trend line.

Ruphus
Funny enough, I knew a certain hip hop producer that expressed at a certain time that he wasn't into using any drum samples anymore. He was leaning towards getting his kik, snare, hihat, clap sounds from recording and sampling various everyday objects. After layering and processing he had some impressive sounds that fit the bill nicely. It it didn't sound like a collection of junk. It sounded right. Variations on the old basketball on the glass kik drum.
Old 20th July 2005
  #199
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet

Since when is music determined "music" by the number of chords played?
since c. 1400 till the "rhythm and blues" era...

music was divided into 2 basic categories

composed music, and folk music;

composed music was written by composers.

folk music was written by folks.

there is a place for both... but for 60 years or so, we've been drowning in a neverending sea of music by folks for folks....

and even that wouldn't be so bad if the folks didn't believe their own press clippings and front like they were composers!!!!
Old 20th July 2005
  #200
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan19
melodically it's pure perfection- the way it flows from beginning to end.

which happens to be the hardest part about creating a song. in any genre.
Old 20th July 2005
  #201
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane
"yesterday" is one of the most complex songs ever created?

do u play an instrument?

i can teach a beginning student how to play yesterday on the piano, with the original chords and in the original key, within 3 months of lessons; i've done this many times.
Obvisously you are not a song writer. Who cares if a 5 yeard can play it in one day.. I'm talking about writing, creating etc. I believe yesterday is one of the most complex songs ever created.

When you put it as simple, it gives me the impresion you have written songs of the same quality or complexity, because well it's simple to your ears. Show us please : )
Old 20th July 2005
  #202
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet
While I see the point you are trying to make, you fail to remember often the songwriter and composer are different people. Rap is often a similiar arrangement. It's often the composer "discovers" a melancholoy chord progression while looking for something else, and then lyrics are written to fit the mood of what the music "says"

YOU may not see it, but IMO rap is often created via a similiar process.
i don't know why so many cats read my posts and jump to the conclusion that i don't know hiphop, don't understand hiphop, can't make hiphop, don't make hiphop, whatever... as if it's so deep that it those who don't-won't-can't ride its jock every step of the way can't understand it.

reality is, i've been in/around/on alot of hi-profile hiphop sessions; worked w. cats on the upper end of the recently posted soundscan sessions, smoked doobs w. the underground's finest;

i've had cats put loops on my computer i later heard when they were international hits on the bbc; i can slice a break in recycle or an mpc, (or both), and i shared a room w. an artist who moved 8 million units and stayed up all nite tapping out beats on my m1!!!...

i know how the trax are created, and i know that many, if not the majority, of producers are making trax w. no lyrical content in mind whatsoever...

the lyricist hears the song, picks up a vibe on it, and writes his lyric... but, alot of times, the lyric is inspired NOT PRIMARILY by the track, but by what's going on in the lyricists head/surroundings at that moment...

for all i know, they played ice cube the track, he went in the sh!tter, picked up a times article about a gangland shooting, and came out and said "i've got it!"

from listening to that track, this explanation is certainly as plausible as that he came in to the studio, heard the beat, the sax loop, and tears started running down his face like al capone listening to pagiliacci arias in "the untouchables.." and immediately started waxing eloquent about his dead homies.

now, if we're going to get anywhere w. this, you can't set up a strawman of my argument and smack it down.

my argument is not "complicated songs are better than simple ones."

my argument is that hiphop is limited in its ability to express emotions SUCH AS melancholy, sadness, reverence, etc...

of course hiphop should be able to call up some emotions... it wouldn't sell any records if people didn't feel something listening to hiphop...

i said there were CERTAIN emotions it coudn't address... or didn't address, or didn't address very well...

and further, that kids who listen MOSTLY to hiphop are not getting the full range of emotions that music can provide...
Old 20th July 2005
  #203
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
Obvisously you are not a song writer. Who cares if a 5 yeard can play it in one day.. I'm talking about writing, creating etc. I believe yesterday is one of the most complex songs ever created.

When you put it as simple, it gives me the impresion you have written songs of the same quality or complexity, because well it's simple to your ears. Show us please : )
ok, i'll state for the record...
i've written alot of songs...

i've never written a song as good as yesterday...

(at least, according to the general public... heh heh )

how does that make it one of the most complex songs ever created?

please define "complex."
Old 20th July 2005
  #204
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

soultrane it's very funny you prop yourself about "being in a room", and that so and so played your m1. that's ridicoulus man.

what have you done, that gives you the right to say been there done that, and it's simple. I'm honestly in a good way, asking you to show us... what you do, post a mp3.
Old 20th July 2005
  #205
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane
ok, i'll state for the record...
i've written alot of songs...

i've never written a song as good as yesterday...

(at least, according to the general public... heh heh )

how does that make it one of the most complex songs ever created?

please define "complex."
well if you haven't written a song as good as yesterday, does complexity ring a bell ?

Complex : something very hard to achieve, make, create.

For the record, I have not written a song as good as yesterday, not even close : )
Old 20th July 2005
  #206
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
soultrane it's very funny you prop yourself about "being in a room", and that so and so played your m1. that's ridicoulus man.

what have you done, that gives you the right to say been there done that, and it's simple. I'm honestly in a good way, asking you to show us... what you do, post a mp3.
u want me to roll out my credits list?

not gonna happen... i know too many cats lurk gearslutz, and i learned along time ago that getting into a philosophical debate like this is not going to get me any more work or get me anything but grief...

and above and beyond that, are you saying my argument has no merit unless i was a founding member of the beatles?
Old 20th July 2005
  #207
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

How can we define what is music and what is not? seriously?

I remember going on music history field trips back in Elementary school to learn about music I have never heard, that I didn't understand, and at that time didn't like. But can I say its not music or that the person we created it is not a composer?

folks, lets be honest...........song creations are repetitious. (edited for the great powers that be) Same thing, different day. Every now and then some one might add an extra note or two and seem to think they created this super-dupa song.
Old 20th July 2005
  #208
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek
well if you haven't written a song as good as yesterday, does complexity ring a bell ?

Complex : something very hard to achieve, make, create.

For the record, I have not written a song as good as yesterday, not even close : )

ok well there's our problem, then...

my definition of complex is "intricate" or "composed of many sophisticated elements and techniques..."

the word i'd use for "something very hard to achieve, make, create" would be (w. deference to uk friends) "singular."

yesterday is "singular."

i have written many pieces more complex than "yesterday." i've never written one as singular...
Old 20th July 2005
  #209
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane

and above and beyond that, are you saying my argument has no merit unless i was a founding member of the beatles?

No, i'm saying. In order to say something is "simple" it should be easy to create right ? well..

You don't need to be a Beatle to comment, but.. if you gather 10 people in a room and you play them one of your best songs and it gets a 7 out of 10 vote on wow that is awesome, and then you play them yesterday, and people give it a 10 out of 10. I don't think you are qualified to say , yesterday is a simple song to make. see ?

You can comment on how much you dislike something, how much it does not move you, how much you think this world would be better without BUT YOU CAN'T CALL SOMETHING SIMPLE IF YOU CAN'T DO IT.
Old 20th July 2005
  #210
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane
ok well there's our problem, then...

my definition of complex is "intricate" or "composed of many sophisticated elements and techniques..."

the word i'd use for "something very hard to achieve, make, create" would be (w. deference to uk friends) "singular."

yesterday is "singular."

i have written many pieces more complex than "yesterday." i've never written one as singular...
well all the complexities you mention above are not worth a cent if the song is not "singular" enough. (whatever that means ) : )
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