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YOU EVER NOT WANT TO TAKE CREDIT FOR A PROJECT?
Old 7th September 2007
  #1
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MERC476's Avatar
 

YOU EVER NOT WANT TO TAKE CREDIT FOR A PROJECT?

I don't know about y'alll but sometimes I get cats that come to my studio to record over a 2 track beat off a cd that sound like a ****ty ass mp3 or way overclipping. They come in and record their whole album or mixtape and then they wanna give me credit for the mix on the cd....I'm like, Ok...I don't know if I want people thinking that I actually mixed the whole song including the instrumental of this beat but neither do I want to tell my client "keep my name off your cd!". It's a tough scituation to be in. Though, everytime I get someone that comes to me with a 2 track of a beat, I always let them know if it sounds good or if I can make it sound better and i let them hear their vocals acapella and then with the beat just to make sure they know what's going on if they're ever asked, where do you record?, that mix sounds like crap! Sometimes, there's only so much you can do with a ****ty sounding wave. You're thoughts......
Old 7th September 2007
  #2
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hey i just went through that, no matter how many times you tell them you cant change there mix, they dont understand, best thing you can do is hi pass there beat and replace kicks snare and bass, at least the important parts (of rap) sound good.
Old 7th September 2007
  #3
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trioptic's Avatar
 

i do work under 2 different names for this exact reason. One name, I don't care what's associated with it. The other name, I use as a resume.
Old 7th September 2007
  #4
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Yes. This has happened to me quite a bit. People bringing in un-credited and un-cleared 30 second loops of Dre stuff and rapping over it. More sampling than Ice Ice Baby or Do It.

The only good thing is that normally they are sooo bad that no one but their mom ever hears it.
Old 7th September 2007
  #5
Gear Head
 

maybe you could create an alias for those types of situations and save your real name for the projects that really reflect your musical sense.
Who knows, your alias might flourish and give you freedom to do things you'd never do under your own name.
I know some people that have aliases for their television composition work.

trioptic - beat me to it!
Old 7th September 2007
  #6
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azwun25's Avatar
 

seems the alias is the way to go..i've done it
Old 7th September 2007
  #7
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temetrepo's Avatar
 

good tip on the alas thing
i have the same exact problem
gonna do that
Old 7th September 2007
  #8
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MERC476's Avatar
 

LMAO....I can't believe I never thought of that. Thats too funny but sounds like it'll work. And about adding kiks and snares, that's cool and all but I cant sit there and co produce all these peoples songs. Like Tibbon said, half the stuff is industry **** looped or straight jacked instrumentals.
Old 7th September 2007
  #9
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I think it's a f*cking riot that people actually think, "Let's take a Dre drumloop and rap over it, and pay people to record us doing that!"

WTF? I've never never never think to rip off a song 100% and sing over it. There's just nothing original there. If they think that all they have is what they rap, and so then it is original, then they should just get someone to program a simple beat. No need to rip off others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MERC476 View Post
LMAO....I can't believe I never thought of that. Thats too funny but sounds like it'll work. And about adding kiks and snares, that's cool and all but I cant sit there and co produce all these peoples songs. Like Tibbon said, half the stuff is industry **** looped or straight jacked instrumentals.
Old 7th September 2007
  #10
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frank lyon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MERC476 View Post
I don't know about y'alll but sometimes I get cats that come to my studio to record over a 2 track beat off a cd that sound like a ****ty ass mp3 or way overclipping. They come in and record their whole album or mixtape and then they wanna give me credit for the mix on the cd....I'm like, Ok...I don't know if I want people thinking that I actually mixed the whole song including the instrumental of this beat but neither do I want to tell my client "keep my name off your cd!". It's a tough scituation to be in. Though, everytime I get someone that comes to me with a 2 track of a beat, I always let them know if it sounds good or if I can make it sound better and i let them hear their vocals acapella and then with the beat just to make sure they know what's going on if they're ever asked, where do you record?, that mix sounds like crap! Sometimes, there's only so much you can do with a ****ty sounding wave. You're thoughts......
I think we have had some of the same clients. (Prov, RI)


****-bag mp3 beats that sound and look all ****ed up.


Also most clients don't want to pay for the extra time to fix a beat. They like to complain a lot about studio time.

They feel it is normal to record, mix and master 3 tracks in a 4 hour session.



lol
Old 7th September 2007
  #11
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank lyon View Post
I think we have had some of the same clients. (Prov, RI)


****-bag mp3 beats that sound and look all ****ed up.


Also most clients don't want to pay for the extra time to fix a beat. They like to complain a lot about studio time.

They feel it is normal to record, mix and master 3 tracks in a 4 hour session.



lol
Whoa, I must have ran them out of Boston and down to you guys! It sounds like the same clients. Wow.

Yea, these guys would bring in their crew of 3-8 with a minidisc, or cd of poorly loop beats that were compressed even more than there were originally. They'd basically want a mic set up, and for me to sometimes fix the loop lengths to match what they were rapping. Never once did they want to record anything else, or add real instruments or new keyboards or drum machines.

Then it would be a 15 minute mix per song, and they wanted it mastered quick and dirty. They never between the 3-8 of them had more money than was needed for a 3-4 hour session (which for adults is sad) so I always had to get it done in that time, or I know that I'd get shafted.

Why did I do the sessions? Because at the time I needed the money, but now? Forget it

Yes, they did figure that an album was probably made in 8 hours.
Old 7th September 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
I think it's a f*cking riot that people actually think, "Let's take a Dre drumloop and rap over it, and pay people to record us doing that!"
Yes well there are A LOT, and I won't say MOST, but there are A LOT of real stupid ****s in the hip hop world.

I know many rappers who like to call what they write poetic and yet they never read books or read poems or even care that there are hundreds even thousands of years of poems and folk and rhymes that are there to study and examine. I am an English major specific in poetry so I find this very ironic that those who supposedly LOVE this stuff don't really care about it in the context of ALL TIME because I sure do.

If it weren't for some guys who have been dead for hundreds of years I probably wouldn't appreciate rap.

Who is the greatest lyricist of all time?.....Shakespeare mother ****ers......no question to me.....anyway....

Plenty of rappers are intelligent but most of them are looking to get famous and don't care about what they are saying, just if they sound like 50 Cent or somebody like that.

It ain't about the art for many of them, it is about the $$$$$$$$$$$ and the pussy...PERIOD.....

Keep it about the art and your soul will prosper.

Peas and carrots brothers

P.S. I have about 5 alias'
Old 7th September 2007
  #13
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trioptic's Avatar
 

heh, you think it's bad recording people...

I was in charge of artist consignment for all of Central Texas for Sam Goody/Musicland for a couple of years, and I could tell some stories about some artists brining in CDs with all kinds of copyrighted and plagiarized music.

One group even straight jacked an entire Nas instrumental and claimed it was their own - and even had the words "for promotional use only" printed on the CD, but were still trying to get us to put it in the stores.

maybe it's just the hip-hop crowd that seem to be most ignorant because that's who I work with the most, but man... some of these artists are damn near ********.
Old 7th September 2007
  #14
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assemblyworker's Avatar
 

I'm about to face this situation....

In the past I've used alias' for work I've not been happy with (and where certain elements were out of my control). However this latest project they know my production name... I have no problem lying to them though lol.


Anyways I find it extremelly stressful working with this guy who I'm calling 'The Producer' (basically taking the piss out of him as he knows **** all about Hip Hop).

What upsets me the most is the kid under his wings, he doesn't have that much skill but is a really nice kid, who happens to suffer from schizophrenia.
Mr 'Producer' is really doing this lad damage, making him think he'll be the next Jay Z or something... It really aint going to happen. Anyway, whenever he's in the studio I just want to punch him full on in the face. How do you guys deal with these types of situation?

Bit OT but kind of relevant (I think)

Cheers

T.A.W.
Old 7th September 2007
  #15
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by assemblyworker View Post
he doesn't have that much skill but is a really nice kid, who happens to suffer from schizophrenia.
Mr 'Producer' is really doing this lad damage, making him think he'll be the next Jay Z or something...
T.A.W.
DAMN..............What is 'The Producer' getting out this....Money?
Old 7th September 2007
  #16
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I had it happen once, and that was when I realized that no matter what stage you're at, there are times when you have to turn down work.

I'm not talking about average bad, this was so bad I was waiting for Ashton Kutcher to jump out of the closet with a cameraman.

I was very patient, letting him come on several different dates, swearing he'd be able to finish it, and end up with several hours worth of the most horrible takes I'd ever heard.

I told him I couldn't finish it, and he got real pushy. I didn't want to hurt the guy's feelings, but it got ugly pretty quick. I agreed to send him the raw tracks and let him finish it somewhere else, provided my name would not be at all associated.

For a couple of months, if you looked at his website, he'd be talking about his upcoming song release(it was advertising his art exhibit). He said it was being produced by Barry Goldstein. I'm sure he put that there knowing I'd read it and realize I'd turned my back on a valuable connection, but I knew he was full of ****.

So several months went by, and finally he unvealed his masterpiece. Whoever had finished it had added some offbeat drums to the beginning and washed the whole thing in reverb. I won't even get into the vocals. OMGTWFH.

And the song was produced by none other than his "band." His band was actually a girl from a leather jacket ad, photoshopped twice to be two people, along with himself. He even gave them names!

This was a mistake from the getgo, but I was glad when it was over. Not only was this guy's song horrible, it was creepy, which only made it creepier that he was damn near 50 with bleached hair, and just gave off a very strong pedophile vibe.

I'd link you to the finished song, but that would be rude on my part. However, if you want to see that I'm not exaggerating, feel free to pm me. I'm just not going to embarrass the dude in a public forum.
Old 7th September 2007
  #17
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assemblyworker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
DAMN..............What is 'The Producer' getting out this....Money?

No, although there seems to be quite a bit of delusion about there being money in the future.

The guy is a friend of the kid's mum (who is also pretty deluded) and seems to be mostly tripping of the fact that he's in a studio and he can talk BS all day and people will put up with it.

I've tried speaking to the kid privately but he finds it hard to speak due to his condition (even though he's an MC!).

He lets this other guy do the talking as it's easier for him.

The dude doesn't even like Hip Hop, where as the whole team I work with lives breathes and ****s the stuff.

I really am wondering how best to deal with this one.

Would any of you guys turn down working with a client in these conditions? We are a fairly new facility and are trying to build a regular client base.
Old 7th September 2007
  #18
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cynic one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by assemblyworker View Post
Would any of you guys turn down working with a client in these conditions? We are a fairly new facility and are trying to build a regular client base.
......the question is, do you want this guy as a "regular client" in the future? looks like you've already answered it.

i'm kind of glad i don't record many other people but friends/group members. in the work i do, i turn clients down all the time if they're cheap/hard to work with/impossible. a work relationship is a 2-way street.

don't be afraid to say no. but if you are afraid, i find quoting people insanely high prices works just as well. and if they client agrees to your $$$ request, hey maybe the project is worth it after all.

food for thought.
Old 7th September 2007
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioBox View Post
I'm just not going to embarrass the dude in a public forum.
Hey Man that is the price we as artists pay when we release something to the public. Share the garbage in a thread titled, "HOW NOT TO MAKE A BEAT" or something like that!

You're being too nice.
Old 7th September 2007
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
Hey Man that is the price we as artists pay when we release something to the public. Share the garbage in a thread titled, "HOW NOT TO MAKE A BEAT" or something like that!

You're being too nice.
Maybe so, but I gotta do what my momma would want me to do. It is really tempting though...it's really a freak show
Old 7th September 2007
  #21
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

Seriously, PM Radiobox for that link.

It may be an educational experience.

Anyone know what a "krocker" is?

If you do know do I want to know?

Old 8th September 2007
  #22
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midilord's Avatar
 

Do what I do create an alias specifically for those projects you don't want your real name on.
Old 8th September 2007
  #23
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Krumbz's Avatar
 

As an artist/ rapper/ emcee TURNED producer/engineer I know EXACTLY how it feels from both ends of the situation.

I think the most important thing to do... and the one single thing that MOST producers neglect... is to educate the artist about how things work. You don't have to make them a producer but general fundamentals go a LONG way in these types of situations.

For example... if they know what "dynamics" are... and why they are so protected... they may see why being "louder" isn't necessarily better. Especially if you explain... briefly... how compression works.

Or if they bring you a two track and they want you to "take out" instruments or vox on the track... you can explain why its called a two track and why you won't be able to help them in the way that they think you can.

Etc.

I've been the dumb ass artist... asking dumb questions... telling the producer to raise the snare in a two track mix. I know what its like.

But I educated myself and now feel obligated to educate others that were like me. I don't know everything but whatever I DO KNOW... YOU KNOW.
Old 8th September 2007
  #24
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mix-it-well's Avatar
 

I stopped workign with artists I don't like.
I'm a Producer so if you're a Eng. that's another story I guess.
Old 8th September 2007
  #25
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Tibbon's Avatar
I don't think an alias really does the trick.
Most people I know ask, "Hey where did you record that?" and those people that are asking want to know for good/bad what studio it was, because they want to/not record there.
Just changing my name to GrandFlashMaster2007 for the CD cover doesn't really save me when it's, "Oh yea, it's at this studio on Beacon Street. etc..."
Old 9th September 2007
  #26
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MERC476's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krumbz View Post
As an artist/ rapper/ emcee TURNED producer/engineer I know EXACTLY how it feels from both ends of the situation.

I think the most important thing to do... and the one single thing that MOST producers neglect... is to educate the artist about how things work. You don't have to make them a producer but general fundamentals go a LONG way in these types of situations.

For example... if they know what "dynamics" are... and why they are so protected... they may see why being "louder" isn't necessarily better. Especially if you explain... briefly... how compression works.

Or if they bring you a two track and they want you to "take out" instruments or vox on the track... you can explain why its called a two track and why you won't be able to help them in the way that they think you can.

Etc.

I've been the dumb ass artist... asking dumb questions... telling the producer to raise the snare in a two track mix. I know what its like.

But I educated myself and now feel obligated to educate others that were like me. I don't know everything but whatever I DO KNOW... YOU KNOW.
I feel you 100% and this is exactly what I do. Some artists actually LISTEN and get better with the beat selections and now, the first thing they ask me after I rip the instrumental is "does this beat sound good to you?". But some just think they know it all and as long as the cd plays in their car after they leave the studio, it's a rap for them. 75% of these cats never even come back to mix their vocals. I do my best mixing the vocals while they're recording cause I know they aint never gonna come back to mix it so if they let someone hear it and that person asks where they recorded, at least it will be as decent a mix as I can get for the time the "artist" spent in the studio.
Old 9th September 2007
  #27
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Krumbz's Avatar
 

^ I completely understand what you're saying as far as mixing vox while the artist is still recording. It's true they might now come back and spend more money and time to work out the kinks.

It's a catch 22... cuz you SHOULDN'T mix their vox while you're recording etc cuz you should be able to work at your own speed and do a quality job. And get PAID for it.

But if you don't mix anything... and they leave with it... they most likely won't come back and will only complain about how the vox are TOO HIGH/TOO LOW etc. Then they tell their friends that you did a ****ty job. They never come back and you get a bad rep.

So we as producers/engineers try to rush a decent mix out knowing its probably the last time we'll get a chance to.

Sux. But if you pick and choose your clients... try to find the ones who simply want the best product you can provide.
Old 9th September 2007
  #28
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Tibbon's Avatar
I do feel that it is your job as an engineer to track it right the first time. If you know the mic needs a boost at 6khz, then boost it on tracking. Don't second guess yourself. You aren't just a guy with gear, you are a guy with gear that can make decisions. The vocals should sound good when they hit tape.

At the same time, these types of sessions are all about control. As many of us have experienced they are all 'quick' and I am sure that I'm not the only one that ever felt rushed during such a session. They don't like for you to tweak the vocals for even two minutes. This is obvious, because they put almost zero time into getting their beats together.

I just don't think this type of business is worth it. It doesn't do anything for your reputation, or for your bottomline.
Old 9th September 2007
  #29
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Tibbon's Avatar
Yea, but who's editing, mixing and mastering this stuff? It's no good if the rest of the chain is down the pooper.
Old 10th September 2007
  #30
Dor
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Dor's Avatar
So people that don't know jack about production are on point when giving recording credits on myspace? I woudn't worry about it.

D
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