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Old 24th August 2007
  #91
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3rdeyeKnight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
You know I don't understand why hip hop isn't marketed to ages 20-40. They have the buying power and they grew up on hip hop. It's not like when hip hop was a youth movement. I think labels miss the mark here. These are the ages that will demand better music, but would prefer to buy it than to waste the time/effort trying to get it for free. You catch a kid in highschool/undergrad 14-22, he's trying to get everything he can for free
That's not a bad idea and it's definitely one I've entertained myself. I think the Puff Daddy's and the Jay-Z's of the world really tried to push the envelope with the "grown and sexy" theme. It did influence a great deal of what we see now, so that mean it really does work... to a certain degree.. but then again that formula has been tested with the Slick-Rick's, and Big Daddy Kane's from the Golden Age of Hip-Hop. The message back then was telling the young world to grow up and "get a suit for a job" *lol* The irony in all of that was that Hip-Hop's main attitude is "my way or the highway" so eventually the grown and sexy, mature thing gets yawned upon. That's not to say that's what's out there now isnt being yawned upon either, but hey....
Old 24th August 2007
  #92
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdeyeKnight View Post
I know this was mentioned already, but I think Lupe Fiasco was the closest Hip-Hop has gotten so far to a healthy turning point for mainstream rap-music. And by that, I mean he was something that everybody could agree on. From the underground purists, to corporate thugs and everything between. The irony is that being a little of everything to everybody was also the problem in my opinion.

His artistic direction went in several directions at once, from representing the "1st and 15th"(the time's of the month that a hustler makes his most money),coming from an Islamic back-ground, he practiced martial-arts, rode skate-boards, endorsed Reeboks with a debut album titled "Food and Liquor". I just think artistically, he spreaded himself a little too thin and the message(if there ever was one) got lost. But I personally liked him and I seriously think the brainchild behind him(Pharell? Kanye?) was on to something.
whatever illusion was cooked up to make lupe the next biggest thing fell thru when he put out them records. they were duds. They weren't even good underground records especially that 2nd single. He had no appeal other than being a lyrical dude. Internet strong, real world weak obviously. Problem with being internet strong only is the internet doesnt buy records they download for free and they let their artists down. Saigon is next.

We cant forget the most important buyers in the market. These buyers hold the fates of these artists in their hands- The LADIES! they buy the most records but they also buy the most merchandising & concert tickets, and "fall in love" with the artists. they call radio request lines heavy. If u dont appeal to them ur career gonna be real short. u dont have to be a pretty boy (big ,jay z, whole bunch of other ugly rappers, 50 look like a turtle). ladies love these guys.
Old 25th August 2007
  #93
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cynic one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post
Definitely well thought out...and I do agree.

It's easy to see how that would happen when hip hop music is being run as a business.

Business needs to pay shareholders, business needs to make money...it's all about the bottom line. As a business, if you don't have to blow a whole bunch of money on promotion and can just get behind something that you know already works - why not? Why not just push the same thing that has been working, assembly line style.

But we're seeing now that music as a business can't think with a business mind alone - especially something that's supposed to be authentic, real, and true like hip hop should be. Like has been mentioned before, people see through it eventually, people crave variety. Throw the devaluation of music into the mix because of technology and you get to where we are today.

People still want value...Assuming anyone can get your mp3 for free, what else could be offered to an audience that's above and beyond that? Better album art? Videos? Merchandise? A live show? Bonus material? Access to an online community of like-minded people?

Maybe it's as simple as making tunes easier to get than the pirated ones. Maybe it's pricing the music at a cost that people are willing to pay. I gladly forked over $99 for FL studio when I could have pirated it just as easily. It was just too cheap not to. Access to the developers, the online forum, and free updates were all benefits the cracked software couldn't offer me.

I don't even claim to have the answer, and it's something I rack my brain trying to figure out every time I work on starting up my label.

If the next big thing is independent promotion, internet sales, single sales via mp3, etc - wouldn't those who already know how to get on the grind and push their own **** benefit the most? It's going to be "business as usual" for them when the whole thing crashes to the ground.
.......So this post got stuck on the bottom of page 2. Not sure anyone even saw it. I'm gonna be cheap and quote my own post.

Today I had an idea that I think might be cool. What about putting a unique code in each of your CD's that let people who bought it login to your web site. There they could get at new material, unique ****, and some sort of online forum or community.

I'm thinking - I make tons of throw-away songs, beats, whatever. That'd be perfect as a free giveaway for people who buy my album. It'd be a snap to setup the code for, and would give people extra value for buying the CD.

......Only thing I don't know about is how that would work if someone bought say, the entire album on iTunes. Guess it needs more investigation......
Old 25th August 2007
  #94
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3rdeyeKnight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethdk View Post
We cant forget the most important buyers in the market. These buyers hold the fates of these artists in their hands- The LADIES!
Aahh yes. The ladies. That's an element that I often over-look when it comes to record sales and downloads for some reason. But you're right.
Old 25th August 2007
  #95
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdeyeKnight View Post
That's not a bad idea and it's definitely one I've entertained myself. I think the Puff Daddy's and the Jay-Z's of the world really tried to push the envelope with the "grown and sexy" theme. It did influence a great deal of what we see now, so that mean it really does work... to a certain degree.. but then again that formula has been tested with the Slick-Rick's, and Big Daddy Kane's from the Golden Age of Hip-Hop. The message back then was telling the young world to grow up and "get a suit for a job" *lol* The irony in all of that was that Hip-Hop's main attitude is "my way or the highway" so eventually the grown and sexy, mature thing gets yawned upon. That's not to say that's what's out there now isnt being yawned upon either, but hey....
But did it really get yawned upon? That slick album is still one of the greatest Hip hop albums ever. (especially from a production standpoint.)

Ken you started a good one here. I seldom think about GS when I'm not here, but this thread was on my mind for a while.
I figured out what's missing from rap.

RAP
It's not that gangsta rap is the problem, it's not the topics. Most of the guys who were out during the "golden era" even of gangsta rap, were rappers first. LOL and the gangsta persona was primarily a persona. What's become fashionable is for guys that are CLEARLY NOT RAPPERS to boast about it so far till Cats that are rappers first (cough cough JAY Z) claim to not be rappers. (But we know J will do whatever the trend is even if it means quoting the hottest lines from your songs LOL) Lupe didn't have the total package IMO. But he was a breath of fresh air in comparison to most of what's out. Alot of people said they didn't feel Jay's last album, but it was a breath of fresh air compared to what was out.

If we want to get to the root of the problem, ignorance has NEVER been cool. The only time slang is cool is when you know how to say stuff correctly and you choose to say it differently. (But that's creativity and not ignorance). Alot of what we get today isn't creative use of slang, it's JUST IGNORANCE.
And despite what media channels attempt to jam down our throats about the black community labeling someone speaking correctly as "speaking white" Anyone who has spent a good bit of time in the black or urban community knows that ignorance is not cool. Otherwise people wouldn't be embarrassed to admit they can't read. Kids that repeat the same grade wouldn't get ribbed constantly. And my highschool class reunion wouldnt still 10 years later make fun of answers some of the not so smart dudes gave in English class years ago.

DO not accept what's being fed. Seek more.

The problem with record labels is EVERYONE has the power to say no to a project. But very few have the power to say yes and make anything happen. As Ken noted guys at labels get fired and flipped often, so there's a tendency to not go on the limb in meetings and to bet with what the group seems to want. THe problem is EVERYONE in the group is doing that. And NOBODY loves a new artist more than they love their job security (Though they should realize by now that they'll lose the job eventually anyway). So the cycle continues. But if you have some soundscans or som BDS spins, it gives leverage to the cat that brings up your project. If it fails, you were the safe bet. He had good reason to believe in you, the people buying your record did, and the stations playing it did.

It's all business. If you want someone to invest in you, you have to prove that you are a good investment. (And then you gotta pray)heh
Old 25th August 2007
  #96
no ssl yet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethdk View Post
whatever illusion was cooked up to make lupe the next biggest thing fell thru when he put out them records. they were duds. They weren't even good underground records especially that 2nd single. He had no appeal other than being a lyrical dude. Internet strong, real world weak obviously. Problem with being internet strong only is the internet doesnt buy records they download for free and they let their artists down. Saigon is next.

We cant forget the most important buyers in the market. These buyers hold the fates of these artists in their hands- The LADIES! they buy the most records but they also buy the most merchandising & concert tickets, and "fall in love" with the artists. they call radio request lines heavy. If u dont appeal to them ur career gonna be real short. u dont have to be a pretty boy (big ,jay z, whole bunch of other ugly rappers, 50 look like a turtle). ladies love these guys.
All True.

Man Lupe just missed the boat. At the end of the day, the record biz is the same in Rock, Country, and Hip Hop. It's about good songs and good records.
I didn't get that from Lupe. And I listen FOR the lyrics. SO I can only imagine what the masses would think. There's a certain "it"factor that you have to have, and I know it when I hear it, but there's no formula for it. You can't create it by copying the last record out. You can wear all of 50's clothes, rap to Timbo's beats and lick your lips like LL, but if you don't have "IT" you just don't.
Old 25th August 2007
  #97
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
All True.

Man Lupe just missed the boat. At the end of the day, the record biz is the same in Rock, Country, and Hip Hop. It's about good songs and good records.
I didn't get that from Lupe. And I listen FOR the lyrics. SO I can only imagine what the masses would think. There's a certain "it"factor that you have to have, and I know it when I hear it, but there's no formula for it. You can't create it by copying the last record out. You can wear all of 50's clothes, rap to Timbo's beats and lick your lips like LL, but if you don't have "IT" you just don't.

Thats the truth. When you hear it, you know it, you dont know why you know it, you just do, and no matter how many times you know, you can never figure it out, its just "IT". Thats why I think the industry is doing exactly that, cheaply copying the last record and trying to make a secret formula for a hit record, and its so transparent, you see right thru the fascade and its not going to sustain the industry for very long, eventually it will all come back to doing it the way (the right way)good music has always been done, good lyrics, thoughtful songs, real musicianship. Like you said about the ringtones, maybe this recent movement in hip hop itself is just a fad.

As an example I'd like to add when I first heard 24's by T.I. (when it first hit BET) within seconds I told my boy hes gonna be the next big thing in rap, dont why I knew that, I just felt it even though I knew nothing of him and never heard anything else from him. Not so much with Lupe. It was cool, but not "it"

On another note, I always ask my girl what she thinks of my tracks,

1. Shes honest and loves me (insert "awwww" here) enough to tell me the truth, even if it hurts
2. Women fuel hip hop more than most know
3. She likes good music, she also likes trendy club music and knows the difference well for someone
who doesnt make music herself. Its very helpful.
Old 25th August 2007
  #98
no ssl yet
Guest
Don't get me wrong though. Lupe will be around. He can rap. Once he finds his lane, He has the talent. He just needs a way to package in in an effective project. For some reason I hear Lupe and think if there was a second album for the Goodie MOB that matched the direction of their first, I could hear him on it. (production wise, content wise etc...)

Damn that makes me wonder what happened to the old C Lo from back then

Dude had the best verse on the 1st outkast album and was one of my favorite MC's from the south at one point.
Old 25th August 2007
  #99
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
Don't get me wrong though. Lupe will be around. He can rap. Once he finds his lane, He has the talent. He just needs a way to package in in an effective project. For some reason I hear Lupe and think if there was a second album for the Goodie MOB that matched the direction of their first, I could hear him on it. (production wise, content wise etc...)

Damn that makes me wonder what happened to the old C Lo from back then

Dude had the best verse on the 1st outkast album and was one of my favorite MC's from the south at one point.

Do you remember "Watch for the Hook" by Cool Breeze and the dungeon family? that **** was is one of my favorite tracks
Old 25th August 2007
  #100
Lives for gear
 
boodah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdeyeKnight View Post
That's not a bad idea and it's definitely one I've entertained myself. I think the Puff Daddy's and the Jay-Z's of the world really tried to push the envelope with the "grown and sexy" theme. It did influence a great deal of what we see now, so that mean it really does work... to a certain degree.. but then again that formula has been tested with the Slick-Rick's, and Big Daddy Kane's from the Golden Age of Hip-Hop. The message back then was telling the young world to grow up and "get a suit for a job" *lol* The irony in all of that was that Hip-Hop's main attitude is "my way or the highway" so eventually the grown and sexy, mature thing gets yawned upon. That's not to say that's what's out there now isnt being yawned upon either, but hey....
I see your point. There's a bunch of good hip hop out there for the mature grown 30+ Hip Hoppas, you just have to work harder to find it.

I love MF Doom, Talib, Mos, Common, Ghostface, MadLib, Pharoah Monche, etc.... Madvillany is a sick album.
Old 25th August 2007
  #101
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Do you remember "Watch for the Hook" by Cool Breeze and the dungeon family? that **** was is one of my favorite tracks
Organized was the ****. Outkast stopped getting beats from them and started doing their own (LOL Probably wanted a bigger check, I can't hate em for that.) But their best singles were all Organized cuts.
Old 25th August 2007
  #102
Lives for gear
 
boodah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
Organized was the ****. Outkast stopped getting beats from them and started doing their own (LOL Probably wanted a bigger check, I can't hate em for that.) But their best singles were all Organized cuts.
I agree.
Old 25th August 2007
  #103
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cynic one's Avatar
 

lupe can rap his ass off

YouTube - Styles P., Papoose and Lupe Fiasco - Cipher

papoose comes hard as **** on that one too
Old 25th August 2007
  #104
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boodah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post
lupe can rap his ass off

YouTube - Styles P., Papoose and Lupe Fiasco - Cipher

papoose comes hard as **** on that one too
That's why I am a fan first.
Old 25th August 2007
  #105
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Do you remember "Watch for the Hook" by Cool Breeze and the dungeon family? that **** was is one of my favorite tracks
Same here man, I even video taped the music video for that song one time....
That track is a perfect example of the type of flavour I wouldnt mind seeing revamped for today.

Not a lot of new guys have skills like that, but then again they might not have been rapping for as long as Outkast and the rest of the dungeon family has..

Is all about the bling bling and ghetto booty now.
Old 25th August 2007
  #106
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Ken Lewis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Thats the truth. When you hear it, you know it, you dont know why you know it, you just do, and no matter how many times you know, you can never figure it out, its just "IT". Thats why I think the industry is doing exactly that, cheaply copying the last record and trying to make a secret formula for a hit record, and its so transparent, you see right thru the fascade and its not going to sustain the industry for very long, eventually it will all come back to doing it the way (the right way)good music has always been done, good lyrics, thoughtful songs, real musicianship. Like you said about the ringtones, maybe this recent movement in hip hop itself is just a fad.

As an example I'd like to add when I first heard 24's by T.I. (when it first hit BET) within seconds I told my boy hes gonna be the next big thing in rap, dont why I knew that, I just felt it even though I knew nothing of him and never heard anything else from him. Not so much with Lupe. It was cool, but not "it"

Your right about the "it" factor. I've worked with ALOT of artists, many who have had "it" many who havent, but could still make good to great records. Speaking of LL, i recorded him once on a song with about 7 other rappers (maybe 1994). everyone else had done there full verses. LL walked in the room and you knew he had "it". he got behind the mic, did 1 line of a hook, and slayed everyone else. it was amazing to see. Kanye had "it" the first time i met him long before his deal. Kanye had extra spoonfuls of "it", and it was instantly obvious. I thought "The Artifacts" from the early 90's had "it" but they never went anywhere. Mary J Blige bled "It" every time she got behind a mic. You could just tell that something special was about to happen and it always did.

Great songs are the same way. I've learned over the years. Not always, but many times i've heard a song and just gone this has "it". If your doing an album and you "think" maybe this song might be a single. its not. singles scream at you, drag you in. There's always gonna be the throwaway songs that do well but nobody cares about them 10 years later, but the songs with "it" are timeless, and few and far between.

So what songs this year have "it"?
Old 25th August 2007
  #107
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Lewis View Post
Your right about the "it" factor. I've worked with ALOT of artists, many who have had "it" many who havent, but could still make good to great records. Speaking of LL, i recorded him once on a song with about 7 other rappers (maybe 1994). everyone else had done there full verses. LL walked in the room and you knew he had "it". he got behind the mic, did 1 line of a hook, and slayed everyone else. it was amazing to see. Kanye had "it" the first time i met him long before his deal. Kanye had extra spoonfuls of "it", and it was instantly obvious. I thought "The Artifacts" from the early 90's had "it" but they never went anywhere. Mary J Blige bled "It" every time she got behind a mic. You could just tell that something special was about to happen and it always did.

Great songs are the same way. I've learned over the years. Not always, but many times i've heard a song and just gone this has "it". If your doing an album and you "think" maybe this song might be a single. its not. singles scream at you, drag you in. There's always gonna be the throwaway songs that do well but nobody cares about them 10 years later, but the songs with "it" are timeless, and few and far between.

So what songs this year have "it"?
Make It Rain
This Is Why I'm Hot
Make Me Better
We Takin Over


Theres more just can't think of em right now
Old 25th August 2007
  #108
Gear Maniac
 
asylumdigital's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post
I had an idea that I think might be cool. What about putting a unique code in each of your CD's that let people who bought it login to your web site. There they could get at new material, unique ****, and some sort of online forum or community.

I'm thinking - I make tons of throw-away songs, beats, whatever. That'd be perfect as a free giveaway for people who buy my album. It'd be a snap to setup the code for, and would give people extra value for buying the CD.

Tons of "throw-away" songs on a website hardly seems like an incentive to visit. Or perfect/or any value whatsover.
The culture has evolved to a pull culture & IMO---Its got to be the real deal, always...
Old 25th August 2007
  #109
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cynic one's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asylumdigital View Post
Tons of "throw-away" songs on a website hardly seems like an incentive to visit. Or perfect/or any value whatsover.
The culture has evolved to a pull culture & IMO---Its got to be the real deal, always...
ok, bad choice of words........but you know what i mean right. exclusive access to new **** that everyone else doesn't get. etc.

if that wouldn't work, what would motivate you as a free bonus? im just throwing out ideas here. what's yours?
Old 25th August 2007
  #110
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Ken Lewis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post
ok, bad choice of words........but you know what i mean right. exclusive access to new **** that everyone else doesn't get. etc.

if that wouldn't work, what would motivate you as a free bonus? im just throwing out ideas here. what's yours?
Well, lots of artists do this already. Usually they include a little flyer in the CD inside that gives you special access to their website, fan club, etc... which i think is a great marketing tool, as long as you provide good content to that. Even unsigned artists do this. I dont know enough about itunes to know how you'd package such a thing with that, but with some sales sites it might be as easy as packaging an extra file with the zip of the album when you purchase a whole album. Like when they package videos free with album purchases. same type of thing, you get a file with a code that directs you to the hidden area of the artists website and you enter the code or it automatically takes you there. not a programming nightmare to pull off. i'm sure its already being done quite a bit. CD's definitely have done this for a long time, prolly and easy online way.

but yes, providing content is important. I think one of the places artists REALLY fall short is blogging. If i was a signed artist, especially if i was touring or had an album out, i'd post a new blog every day or two, and try to keep it so fans could learn something about me or feel like they know me a bit, make it personal. Talk about how the tour is going, where they'll be next, how the fans were, maybe mention a couple fan names personally, talk about how the studio is going, who they are working with, show some clips a la YouTube of being in the studio creating.

I know some artists do this, but very few do it consistently. Seems like the easiest, cheapest way to build a loyal fan base, and most artists dont do it. If i owned a record company, i'd probably write it into the artist contract and some sort of requirement.
Old 25th August 2007
  #111
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Make It Rain
This Is Why I'm Hot
Make Me Better
We Takin Over


Theres more just can't think of em right now


I guess we have different definitions.
Old 25th August 2007
  #112
Lives for gear
 
PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
Make It Rain
This Is Why I'm Hot
Make Me Better
We Takin Over


Theres more just can't think of em right now
1+ for "Make It Rain"

A "You must be kidding me" for "This Is Why I'm Hot" dfegad

"Make Me Better" was good. Ne-Yo's chorus got annoying for me after I heard the song a few times.

And a "Meh" for "We Taking Over" Good track, but I put it in the same category of fate as "Make Me Better".

Does anyone notice any similarities between these tracks though which might be behind the reason they were mentioned in the first place?
Old 26th August 2007
  #113
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
1+ for "Make It Rain"

A "You must be kidding me" for "This Is Why I'm Hot" dfegad

"Make Me Better" was good. Ne-Yo's chorus got annoying for me after I heard the song a few times.

And a "Meh" for "We Taking Over" Good track, but I put it in the same category of fate as "Make Me Better".

Does anyone notice any similarities between these tracks though which might be behind the reason they were mentioned in the first place?

First off, nosslyet, tell me what you think of as your "it" factor

I mentioned those songs based on my "it" not nessecarily because I thought they were defining moments in hip hop.

other than you make me better they're songs that people can dance to, rap along with and enjoy the catchy rythm at the same time, make me better is catchy in a singy sorta way, and the beat has somewhat a hypnotic melody, then the subject isnt generally spit on a track like that, so its a fresh approach compared to what else is out, the fact that its fab helps too,

dont know why I mentioned those tracks, but I love we takin over, so catchy, so much energy, same thing with DJ khaled last single holla at me with that perfect beat sample, **** was niiice, reminds me off swiss when he first hit the scene
Old 26th August 2007
  #114
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boodah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Lewis View Post
Your right about the "it" factor. I've worked with ALOT of artists, many who have had "it" many who havent, but could still make good to great records. Speaking of LL, i recorded him once on a song with about 7 other rappers (maybe 1994). everyone else had done there full verses. LL walked in the room and you knew he had "it". he got behind the mic, did 1 line of a hook, and slayed everyone else. it was amazing to see. Kanye had "it" the first time i met him long before his deal. Kanye had extra spoonfuls of "it", and it was instantly obvious. I thought "The Artifacts" from the early 90's had "it" but they never went anywhere. Mary J Blige bled "It" every time she got behind a mic. You could just tell that something special was about to happen and it always did.

Great songs are the same way. I've learned over the years. Not always, but many times i've heard a song and just gone this has "it". If your doing an album and you "think" maybe this song might be a single. its not. singles scream at you, drag you in. There's always gonna be the throwaway songs that do well but nobody cares about them 10 years later, but the songs with "it" are timeless, and few and far between.

So what songs this year have "it"?
Oh man, that brought back memories. The Artifacts from New Jeruz is/was very talented. I have their album in a crate somewhere in the garage. It will take me days to find it.

But to your point on them, I believe they came out to a saturated market and was lost in the shuffle behind De La, ATCQ, The Wu.

I also felt the DITC crew had the it factor as well.

My songs for this year are:

Body Baby - Pharoah Monche
Best of Me - Chrisette Michele
Get My Hustle On - Keith Murray
Drivin Me Wild - Common feat Lily Allen
Man's World - Guilty Simpson
Cmon Baby - Saigon
What A Job - Devin the Dude, Snoop, Andre 3000
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