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augmentet creativity - AI for creative processes
View Poll Results: augmented creativity
already using it
0 Votes - 0%
planning to use it
1 Votes - 50.00%
not planning
0 Votes - 0%
not going to use it
1 Votes - 50.00%
Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll

Old 24th October 2019
  #1
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augmentet creativity - AI for creative processes

make the headline read : "augmented creativity - AI for creative processes"
are you already using it?

Last edited by memristor; 24th October 2019 at 09:23 PM.. Reason: schpelling
Old 25th October 2019
  #2
Can we have a 5th option - wtf?!
Old 25th October 2019
  #3
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hehe, sorry it was late.

what they call "augmented creativity" is the use of "AI" (artficial intelligence, machine learning) in creative processes like composition etc.

like, you put in three notes and the AI software makes that a whole composition, in your personal style and such things.

Are you already using such techniques, like image style transfer, or planning to use them in the future?
Or do you decide not to use them?
Old 25th October 2019
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
hehe, sorry it was late.

what they call "augmented creativity" is the use of "AI" (artficial intelligence, machine learning) in creative processes like composition etc.

like, you put in three notes and the AI software makes that a whole composition, in your personal style and such things.

Are you already using such techniques, like image style transfer, or planning to use them in the future?
Or do you decide not to use them?
Ok - a more refined version - “no idea what this is; never occurred to me to use it”!

I think you’re maybe looking at people in the developmental classical field here - the people who 50 years ago would have been with Schoenberg or whoever making mathematical tone row “music”.
Old 25th October 2019
  #5
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yes it's still in the academic field, only parts of it are open source, but I expect to see commercial applictaions any day now.

Like Flowmachines https://www.flow-machines.com/ by SONY.

I want to get into this, but theres too much to learn at this stage for me.
So I wait for more accessible solutions.

And in the meantime I ask if anybody is already using such things.

Like image style transfer, https://deepart.io/ or https://prisma-ai.com/ etc etc ,people are already using it for illustrations etc. since quite a while now.

We'll see such apps and things for music as well.

I want a system that I can train with my onw music, that will help me to create more music in the same vain, but still different to the music I would create without the tool.
Also, I want it to survive me physcially.
So when I will be dead, people could still run the program that was trained by me and listen to new compositions in my style.
Old 25th October 2019
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
yes it's still in the academic field, only parts of it are open source, but I expect to see commercial applictaions any day now.

Like Flowmachines https://www.flow-machines.com/ by SONY.

I want to get into this, but theres too much to learn at this stage for me.
So I wait for more accessible solutions.

And in the meantime I ask if anybody is already using such things.

Like image style transfer, https://deepart.io/ or https://prisma-ai.com/ etc etc ,people are already using it for illustrations etc. since quite a while now.

We'll see such apps and things for music as well.

I want a system that I can train with my onw music, that will help me to create more music in the same vain, but still different to the music I would create without the tool.
Also, I want it to survive me physcially.
So when I will be dead, people could still run the program that was trained by me and listen to new compositions in my style.
You’re very forward thinking!

I’d settle for making something (a composition or recording) that was appreciated in future years!

Really; shouldn’t you be making that style a fixture first?!
Old 25th October 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I’d settle for making something (a composition or recording) that was appreciated in future years!
definitively.

I claim that I already have that style, though it's not widely recognized (yet)...

So what I need now is students. And I think the machine could be the perfect student.
My machine: my student, my prosthetic brain, and my heritage.

It will be appreciated in the future, certainly, just for historic reasons.

They will dig out this very post, put it on display next to the exhibit.
Old 25th October 2019
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
definitively.

I claim that I already have that style, though it's not widely recognized (yet)...

So what I need now is students. And I think the machine could be the perfect student.
My machine: my student, my prosthetic brain, and my heritage.

It will be appreciated in the future, certainly, just for historic reasons.

They will dig out this very post, put it on display next to the exhibit.
I would concentrate on listener engagement and spreading your impact musically, rather than AI impersonated versions and "students".

No-one will care about preserving something unsuccessful on its own merits; yes I know historically there's plenty of artists who only became successful posthumously, but not so much in the internet era.
Old 25th October 2019
  #9
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I agree, but at the same time disagree - user engagement, I have that, on my tiny scale though.

I also had my 15 minutes internet artistic fame about 18,20 years ago.
Totally a thing of the past, and the moment.
But today, I see how this work made its way from first hand literature of back in the day into secondary literature of today, Wikipedia, ect.
Google knows the context.
It's history, made it's tiny tiny trace in history. Footnote of a footnote, if you will.

Both considered I think I am ready to work with AI. I am kind of serious with that, I would love to do this.
Old 25th October 2019
  #10
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
what they call "augmented creativity" is the use of "AI" (artficial intelligence, machine learning) in creative processes like composition etc.

like, you put in three notes and the AI software makes that a whole composition, in your personal style and such things.
Am I the only one who thinks the label is actually the polar opposite of "augmented"?

More creativity = you actually doing more of the creative work, not less.

Using AI to compose for you, apart from being lazy and boring, is by definition diminishing your creative contribution.

I think we should all strive for the exact opposite and instead oppose AI in "creative arts"...
Old 25th October 2019
  #11
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Right, but there are two mistakes:

a) I am not talking about AI doing work for you, but you doing work by means of AI.
Just like using a drill hammer is still hard work, even though it gives you unhuman super powers.

b) the AI enables me doing things that couldnt be done before

For instance, I have this idea of a symphony, where the erth spirit or some entity speaks,
I imagine the orchestra making sounds, which sound like human speech, but with an underlying musical score.

You can hardly compose this passage by hand, manually- even with analysers and such things, its difficult.
you can do it with AI.

Why is that less creative, and doing less, than not writing the symphony at all?

I am talking about AIs that only use data I created, both for training and for excecution.
Nothing is done "by itself", its all my work still.
Like using a sketch book etc. Like using a Piano instead of hitting strings manually.
Old 25th October 2019
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
Right, but there are two mistakes:

a) I am not talking about AI doing work for you, but you doing work by means of AI.
Just like using a drill hammer is still hard work, even though it gives you unhuman super powers.

b) the AI enables me doing things that couldnt be done before

For instance, I have this idea of a symphony, where the erth spirit or some entity speaks,
I imagine the orchestra making sounds, which sound like human speech, but with an underlying musical score.

You can hardly compose this passage by hand, manually- even with analysers and such things, its difficult.
you can do it with AI.
How do you know it can hardly be composed "by hand"? Is it that you're incapable of it or because humans are incapable of it?

Do this, go listen to some orchestral music that's far less tonal and conventional in nature. Maybe pick Sofia Gubaidulina's "Offertorium". Just put your headphones on in a dark room and dedicate time for it. Experience that piece for what it is, beginning to end with no distractions.

Even if that isn't exactly what you're looking for it shows part of the width of expression used in orchestras by composers. The question that follows is what is the evidence for it being impossible to do what you want by hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
Why is that less creative, and doing less, than not writing the symphony at all?
It obviously isn't, but that was also not what I was saying. And now you're setting up a dichotomy that is maybe true in your case, but it really relies on "I can't or won't learn how to do this thing so I won't even try".

With that approach in mind where do you draw the line between "I'll just put in another 1,000 hours and then I've got it" and "I'll just use a computer to do the rest"? That's really what I'm getting at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
I am talking about AIs that only use data I created, both for training and for excecution.
Nothing is done "by itself", its all my work still.
Like using a sketch book etc. Like using a Piano instead of hitting strings manually.
No, it's not like using a sketch book or a piano. It would be an accurate analogy if you said that it's like using a document processor to help you, and what you do is write a couple of paragraphs and then the processor corrects spelling and grammar and continues to finalize the story for you.

By definition you've written less than you could have (?) because the computer did part of the work. It's not "all your work", it's partly your work and the rest is the computer.
Old 25th October 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
How do you know it can hardly be composed "by hand"? Is it that you're incapable of it or because humans are incapable of it?
I dont know of any composer who is capable of that without extra tools like analysers.
I am not saying there are no composer that can do much greater work than that cheesy idea, but doing this exact thing is hard.

I might try using AI, but I realized that that it might be too much for me and my age. I programmed for a short time in ECMA script 15-20 years ago.
Theres much to learn an that side, plus all the machine learning basic stuff...
its quite a challenge for me.

The correct picture for the process would be a word processor that finishes sentences, cause it has read everything you ever wrote, and "knows" statistically and by context what might follow.

And me using the suggestion because it was eactly what I wanted to say just more beautiful. But then changing my mind, changing the sentence a little bit. Feeding that back into the machine.

Of course novelists will use this, not all but some.
ANd I dont see why it would make a work inferior.
Old 25th October 2019
  #14
Gear Guru
 

To me it's not about the work but about the process. The process of creation is what makes art beautiful as a concept and to society. If we end up in a future where all "art" is created by machines, have we lost nothing as a society? If the answer is 'no' then that points to what I'm talking about.
Old 25th October 2019
  #15
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Let me answer this by AI:

We could end up by saying that art is for the people.

Answer created by https://talktotransformer.com/
Old 26th October 2019
  #16
Some of this thread reminds me of an amateur lyricist I once heard of, who kept a notebook of their songs. On one page, there was a title, followed by the word “instrumental”....
Old 26th October 2019
  #17
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You are reading other peoples notebooks?

The person could have been me - I think the title is a very important aspect of a track.
Old 26th October 2019
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
You are reading other peoples notebooks?

The person could have been me - I think the title is a very important aspect of a track.
It was a story relayed to me.

the point was someone with delusions...essentially expecting credit for someone (or in this case, something) to do the work for them! Clearly being the lyricist of an instrumental track is daft.
Old 2nd November 2019
  #19
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my first composition with the help of AI

EDIT:
forgot the credits for the AI
Payne, Christine. "MuseNet." OpenAI, 25 Apr. 2019, openai.com/blog/musenet
Attached Files

augmented js.mp3 (4.39 MB, 100 views)


Last edited by memristor; 2nd November 2019 at 09:41 PM..
Old 4th November 2019
  #20
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music like from future it is

credits as above
Guess the well known classic composer that had been channeld for this..

I like it a lot but I hesitate to put it on my souncloud.

I am not 100% convinced this is music made by me (it isnt) but I dont know who actually is the author - its certainly not the composer whos data was used for training, nor is ot the author of the software, nor the software by itself, nor me.

So where does the music come from?
Attached Files

augmented js2.mp3 (6.68 MB, 59 views)

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