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Computer denouncers: What’s been your actual experience?
Old 30th July 2019
  #61
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
but I am genuinely interested in how people come up with their stances.
Usually when you decide to stop using something you need to justify why in some way.

Most people who take a hard stance against computers just don't want to learn how to use them for music because that is actually time consuming and not that fun. They don't become fun until you've put in the hours and have proper command over a DAW. The justifications then become the bad things you remember about using a computer.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #62
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syntonica's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Am I supposed to spend 15 minutes reconfiguring my laptop every time I press it into DAW duty?
Nah, just have separate logins--one for music and one for everything else. Admittedly, it takes a minute or two to switch over, depending upon OS and background processes.

On both Mac and Windows, I go in and stop all unnecessary background processes and turn off as much CPU-hungry junk as possible. I don't like any pop-ups. Ever. For any reason. If the OS wants my attention, it can put an icon up somewhere and I'll notice it when I'm ready to notice it. If ads on a website want my attention, I immediately click out of that website and don't return.

My time is valuable and I'm willing to spend the extra half-hour up front in a new configuration to save myself from hours of annoying aggravation and aggravating annoyances later.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #63
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syntonica's Avatar
My one peeve with using computers is updates. OS updates, DAW updates, plugin updates. Please, stop annoying me with your stupid notifications, pop-ups, singing and dancing, etc. Once, every couple of months, I just check everything on my own and apply updates as wanted/need. I've found most never fix whatever issue I might be having anyways.

That said, hardware needs updates, too, but at least my keyboards don't have to call home first and then whine and annoy the crap out of me...
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Old 30th July 2019
  #64
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Bignatius's Avatar
Me, too, custom User acccounts (or multi-boot) per machine that pulls double or triple duty, with OS and features and such setup as needed.
Old 30th July 2019
  #65
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I hate computers. I have been using them for over 8 hours a day for most of my life. But still hate them.

But in today's world. There is no choice by to use AD/DA and a DAW for cost reasons. Tape is too expencive. Also in today's world, people expect to be able to pull up a file, make a minor tweek, then re-mix. Hardware has to be removed from the pitcure for that to happen.

I think the sound quality of high end hardware still sounds better than any software. I will use two EQ's as the example. GML8200 or Curve bender. Both sound better in hardware than software.

Why do I hate computers specifically for Audio? LAG. Lag can't be removed compleatly. The lag issue will not be solved for me until 4 round trips of AD/DA happen in under 1ms. Round trip Audio in 0.00025 seconds. When that becomes standard, then the lag issue will no longer be an issue for me. Not gonna happen in my life time.


The only solution for me was to handle each issue as best I can and move on.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #66
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
LOL at computer denouncers...
My computer denounces the denouncing of denouncers. I'm not sure if I should denounce that...
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Old 30th July 2019
  #67
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Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
Why do I hate computers specifically for Audio? LAG. Lag can't be removed compleatly. The lag issue will not be solved for me until 4 round trips of AD/DA happen in under 1ms. Round trip Audio in 0.00025 seconds. When that becomes standard, then the lag issue will no longer be an issue for me. Not gonna happen in my life time.
3ms is almost impossible to perceive. Doesn't mess with my playing of synths anyway... sounds good is good etc.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
You’re right, but I am genuinely interested in how people come up with their stances. I’m not interested in the “this is what I like, live and let live” but more about the 808likes of this forum, who have this sort of vendetta against software. Where does that come from? It seems beyond just a dislike, but more about discrediting. Like just saying that you don’t like using a computer isn’t enough, and you have to draw some blood to make your point.
Uh, I would say that realistically you are describing a tiny minority of people on this particular forum. Maybe I tune it all out, but I don't see people who have a hatred of software or DAWs vocally taking over threads.

What I HAVE seen are conversations like:

A: I need X in hardware
B: Well, this plugin does it
A: In hardware
B: But why?
A: OMFG, who cares? I just want hardware.
B: Well, that's a silly distinction, I mean isn't most HW running SW of some kind?
...and you can fill in the rest. Because B wanted to argue a point that A didn't want to.

I almost never see the opposite, where someone wants a plugin recommendation and some HW zealot barges in saying that the VSynth XT can do all that.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #69
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post

“Plugin emulations sound nothing like the real thing!” This is ridiculous. Do they sound exactly like the real thing? No, of course not. Not even two of the “real things” sound exactly like each other, or so the lore goes. But they do seem to sound very similar and in some cases indistinguishable from each other and usually offer other features that make them attractive as not a replacement for the O.G. but at least a good addition.

“They’re going to crash on you at the worst time!” We’ve all had crashes, but I’ve also had cables that have gone bad during gigs. Hardware malfunctions, etc. I’ve found that unless I do something stupid, like try to add a plugin while my DAW’s sequencer is going in a plugin laden project, things are very stable. I can’t even remember a time when my DAW software was brought down during a jam. (Bitwig)

“They’re a terrible investment that’s always about to stop working because of an OS update!” I know this is a problem that’s more Apple oriented, but even when they went from Motorola to Intel processors, I just didn’t update until my plugins were all supported and things went fine. I’ve had some plugins stop working, but their cost was often so low and the amount of use I got out of them before they stopped working seem to still make them a pretty good deal. They also seem to negate all the hardware instruments that drop in price, like the DX7 or most ROMplers.

Anyway, I’m in no way suggesting anyone toss out the hardware that they love, but I do see an awful lot of threads that seem to be complaining about the state of modern hardware and when the use of a laptop or computer is suggested, the response is similar to what I imagine they’d respond to if “sawing their leg off with a steak knife’ was suggested. The criticism just doesn’t seem to mesh up with my actual experience, so I’m wondering what the actual F? Don’t get me wrong, I had those opinions too... in the early 2000s. Things have come a very long way since.
Not a computer denouncer myself but my own opinion on the matter is that in many cases cheap and/or flaky computer parts and components are the real cause of 90% of the examples you laid out rather than any inherent flaws in modern DAW and plugin architecture. I've seen Cubase and Ableton run swimmingly on properly spec'd machines from reputable builders running Win 10 and 7. I've also seen poorly built machines sputter and fail with only 1 or 2 plugins and 2-3 audio tracks loaded in a project file.

My only real complaint has been the lack of coherency across controller designs and the lack of a proper controller chock full of knobs and sliders which could easily be configured to any current soft synth or plugin, although the Nektar P1 currently on my desk has so far been surprisingly agile and fun to use.

Last edited by dj.anti.matter; 30th July 2019 at 08:52 AM.. Reason: poor grammar caused by insomnia
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Old 30th July 2019
  #70
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shreddoggie's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I’m not talking about those of you who hate looking at screens, using trackballs or mice, trackpads, etc. I get that the ITB workflow, or even a hybrid approach, isn’t for everyone. I’m more talking about people who seem to have an almost irrational hate for using computers based on what I see as misinformation or outdated information. A lot of what I read seems to be based on how the world of plugins was pre 2005. Here’s a few things I seem to read over and over again:

“Plugin emulations sound nothing like the real thing!” This is ridiculous. Do they sound exactly like the real thing? No, of course not. Not even two of the “real things” sound exactly like each other, or so the lore goes. But they do seem to sound very similar and in some cases indistinguishable from each other and usually offer other features that make them attractive as not a replacement for the O.G. but at least a good addition.

“They’re going to crash on you at the worst time!” We’ve all had crashes, but I’ve also had cables that have gone bad during gigs. Hardware malfunctions, etc. I’ve found that unless I do something stupid, like try to add a plugin while my DAW’s sequencer is going in a plugin laden project, things are very stable. I can’t even remember a time when my DAW software was brought down during a jam. (Bitwig)

“They’re a terrible investment that’s always about to stop working because of an OS update!” I know this is a problem that’s more Apple oriented, but even when they went from Motorola to Intel processors, I just didn’t update until my plugins were all supported and things went fine. I’ve had some plugins stop working, but their cost was often so low and the amount of use I got out of them before they stopped working seem to still make them a pretty good deal. They also seem to negate all the hardware instruments that drop in price, like the DX7 or most ROMplers.

Anyway, I’m in no way suggesting anyone toss out the hardware that they love, but I do see an awful lot of threads that seem to be complaining about the state of modern hardware and when the use of a laptop or computer is suggested, the response is similar to what I imagine they’d respond to if “sawing their leg off with a steak knife’ was suggested. The criticism just doesn’t seem to mesh up with my actual experience, so I’m wondering what the actual F? Don’t get me wrong, I had those opinions too... in the early 2000s. Things have come a very long way since.
Honest:

1. I have plugin emulations and I don't compare them to the 'real thing' - as you say, that's idiotic. I do however prefer to work outside of the computer as long as possible, using the computer only for capture and this is partially for sound quality reasons. To my ears everything sounds more lively and open (+ other meaningless adjectives) until I capture it into that constrained space. Working in that space sounds TO ME like fiddling within the constraints as if everything went from 1-10 before, and now I gotta work between 2 and 8. With plugins I feel like I am STARTING between 2 and 8. I prefer plugins that do something no hardware can do, or at least things that the hardware would be ridiculous like a 2" Ampex machine and a Neumann lathe or going out to acetates of stuff so I could sample it into the computer. No way software (for me) when it comes to drum machines and synths - even outboard. Its not the 'real thing' as much as its the latitude - analog gain staging FTW.

2. Just no - this is dumb. Most everything HW and SW works most of the time. Everything crashes occasionally.

3. Investment - just no also. Sorry to be harsh, but if this is in any way your criteria you are maybe in the wrong game. You use up your paints putting them on canvases and then they're gone. Some of my HW has maybe gone up (probably not even my 909 after inflation) and a lot of it has gone 'down' who cares. I NEED these things to make art - they are tools and they wear out. Big whoop.

I think a lot of people gripe anti-software cos its fashionable and some maybe cos they intuitively get the 2-8 thing I am talking about even if they haven't been there. I also think plenty of people are just plain naive. Hardware isn't automatically easy to use and doesn't automatically sound amazing. It all takes work and if theres one thing I can pat myself on the back for it is DISCIPLE - I put in the hours. I make horrible tunes and massage them until they are good or abandoned. I've done this long enough to develop some skills. I've spent hours with samplers and synths massaging start points and envelopes and configuring outputs and patching them through devices, saving things to floppy. Maybe if people put that kind of effort into SW they wouldn't whine so much. Everyone wants 'quick workflow' to which I say F-off - quick = garbage. Slow the F down and learn some craft. Software will be fine if you bother to learn what you're doing.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #71
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
That is a 100% valid reason not to buy a vintage instrument. People have different reasons for their preferences, what is actually hard to accept here? That you simply disagree?

Maintaining a vintage synth is a terrifying experience, even for the ones that are known for being reliable. My Jupiter 8 is my favorite instrument but I know if it dies I'm screwed because there are no techs anywhere near me.
You should probably look into a Roland Cloud subscription!

Seriously though, I’d at least keep a System 8 around, just to tide me over if I had to send it away.
Old 30th July 2019
  #72
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There's a lot I don't like about working in the computer, but one thing in particular is I just find it too open ended. I like how HW has defined systems. I find SW to be too configurable. I'm sure for some people this is great, but it just doesn't work well for my brain.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #73
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
Usually when you decide to stop using something you need to justify why in some way.

Most people who take a hard stance against computers just don't want to learn how to use them for music because that is actually time consuming and not that fun. They don't become fun until you've put in the hours and have proper command over a DAW. The justifications then become the bad things you remember about using a computer.
Hm. I hadn’t thought of that. That’s a great point.
Old 30th July 2019
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Sure, it’s fine. I’m just curious as to how these prejudices propagate. For instance, the post in this thread about interface driver support. I’ve never had similar problems, (but I did have an 828 die on me) so I wonder, am I the anomaly? I’d have thought that even among the plugin haters here, they’re still hitting a DAW at the end. Or are they using a hardware digital multitrack? Tape? Direct to wax cylinder?
I see where you're coming from, but still I wouldn't call it hate. And has the update-cycle-of-hell really improved that much? For me it just got tiring being told I needed to update this and that, having to keep up all the time. I still use a DAW for recording and effects though - Cubasis in iOS. There's always updates to deal with but an iPad is a lot easier to manage.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #75
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subverter View Post
There's not much hardware that takes as long to boot up as a computer.
I honestly think my 002 takes longer, but it is an outlier.

Quote:
Also, if say, one of my effects boxes goes down, I can still work - just not using those particular effects. Or a synth breaks, again, I can still work with the other gear.
If hard drive/motherboard/PSU/audio interface/BIOS/RAM/screen etc. go down, the whole job is screwed.
I never get rid of my previous computer, just in case of emergency. I also have never had an emergency. I also have enough hardware to make music regardless.
Old 30th July 2019
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
Uh, I would say that realistically you are describing a tiny minority of people on this particular forum. Maybe I tune it all out, but I don't see people who have a hatred of software or DAWs vocally taking over threads.

What I HAVE seen are conversations like:

A: I need X in hardware
B: Well, this plugin does it
A: In hardware
B: But why?
A: OMFG, who cares? I just want hardware.
B: Well, that's a silly distinction, I mean isn't most HW running SW of some kind?
...and you can fill in the rest. Because B wanted to argue a point that A didn't want to.

I almost never see the opposite, where someone wants a plugin recommendation and some HW zealot barges in saying that the VSynth XT can do all that.
I do admit that I see that, and if the OP doesn’t initially state hardware, I will suggest software if I feel that there’s something specific that does the job well. Like, “what do you recommend for an Eno style pitch shifter reverb on a budget.” I’ll always chime in with Valhalla Shimmer, because at $50 it’s amazing even if you get something else for your hardware needs.

But I do also see a fair amount of really angry and insulting remarks about software instruments in general. “Flat.” “Lifeless.” “Software toy.” Etc. I mean, look at 808like. WTF? That’s admittedly an extreme case, but there’s a general vibe of that in a lot of threads.

I think my blind spot is that I tend to think that we’re into electronic music because we’re explorers and that’s really important. I need to remind myself that the majority of people into electronic music really just want to sound like their favorite bands from the 80s and 90s, so anything that deviates from that tech is unnecessary.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #77
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricera View Post
I see where you're coming from, but still I wouldn't call it hate. And has the update-cycle-of-hell really improved that much? For me it just got tiring being told I needed to update this and that, having to keep up all the time. I still use a DAW for recording and effects though - Cubasis in iOS. There's always updates to deal with but an iPad is a lot easier to manage.
It’s not too bad. I’ll put my PC online every two weeks to see if there’s anything important. I purposely updated everything last week because a huge Bitwig update was released, and it’s off the hook. Full on DAW modular environment. Nothing broke as far as I can tell. I think that’s a much bigger problem on Macs. I abandoned them for audio a long time ago, because I wanted to use Circular Lab’s Möbius Audio looper. It’s a free emulation of 16x Echoplex Digital Pros and the cornerstone of how I make music.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #78
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The midi controllers + software costs more then the analog gear it’s trying to emulate. So fortunate to be making music in 2019!
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Old 30th July 2019
  #79
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I do also see a fair amount of really angry and insulting remarks about software instruments in general. “Flat.” “Lifeless.” “Software toy.” Etc. I mean, look at 808like. WTF? That’s admittedly an extreme case, but there’s a general vibe of that in a lot of threads.
I think it goes back to my comment about it being a symptom of a widespread phenomenon of modernity and humanity. The language and over the top tribalism and BlackWhite-ness and lack of nuance and ten other accurate descriptions are all over.

People don't just dislike (insert politician), they fvcking Hate them, call every one of them Hitler at some point, a Fascist, a (insert racial epithet), theyre all Traitors, Evil, etc, when really theyre all mostly a mere degree or three different, but no, they're Satan come to Eat Babies.

HipHop isn't just Not My Thing, its cRap, its all Ghetto Thug Junk, its yadda yadda.

Same damn thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I think my blind spot is that I tend to think that we’re into electronic music because we’re explorers and that’s really important. I need to remind myself that the majority of people into electronic music really just want to sound like their favorite bands from the 80s and 90s, so anything that deviates from that tech is unnecessary.
There's truth in there, for sure.
Old 30th July 2019
  #80
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
The midi controllers + software costs more then the analog gear it’s trying to emulate. So fortunate to be making music in 2019!
And the jazzcabbage is better and cheaper, too.

So many bemoan these days like we live in some hell (we, those first and second worlders who are lucky to not actuallylive like that while others do), but we've haedly ever had it as good in a ton of ways, too.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #81
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grasspike's Avatar
I'm an old fart. I started with a few synths, a sequencer and a Tascam 4 track 30+ years ago

I gave away or sold pretty much all my hardware and went ITB when I got married and had kids. Over the years my computers got more powerful and my software got better.

My kids have grown and I am now all hardware again.

My "all hardware" set up includes a dozen synths but also includes two iPads that I use as dedicated sound modules, and a laptop that I use as sampler by running Izotope Iris 2 in stand alone mode.

All is sequenced with a Pyramid that is a computer in a box, and mixed live with my digital mixer that is also a computer in a box
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Old 30th July 2019
  #82
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
It’s not too bad. I’ll put my PC online every two weeks to see if there’s anything important. I purposely updated everything last week because a huge Bitwig update was released, and it’s off the hook. Full on DAW modular environment. Nothing broke as far as I can tell. I think that’s a much bigger problem on Macs. I abandoned them for audio a long time ago, because I wanted to use Circular Lab’s Möbius Audio looper. It’s a free emulation of 16x Echoplex Digital Pros and the cornerstone of how I make music.
What's your "executive summary" of the current state, pros and cons, of Bitwig, in general, and if you feel like it - as compared to what you know of Live and Reaper?
Old 30th July 2019
  #83
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syntonica's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
People don't just dislike (insert politician), they fvcking Hate them, call every one of them Hitler at some point, a Fascist, a (insert racial epithet), theyre all Traitors, Evil, etc, when really theyre all mostly a mere degree or three different, but no, they're Satan come to Eat Babies.
Nope, just the one.

It may seem the whole world has gone wackadoo, but it's how it's always been. Being able to see it on the Internet, immediately, now makes it seem more prevalent. It's a new paradigm where literally any person now has a platform available, either for free or for very cheap hosting costs, and can reach anybody in the world! With Google Translate, even language is less of a barrier than ever before.

This same platform also has far-reaching consequences in how we create and access music, video, art, and other forms of entertainment. And it still hasn't stopped evolving...

tl, dr: Ignore the trolls, we have mods to spank them.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #84
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by odysseyretro View Post
Computer-only users have no soul: neither does their music.
This is true. I sold my soul for a pentium chip many moons ago.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #85
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
But instead of accepting that people have lived these experiences and don't want to make the same concessions you do -- you instead are asking people to enumerate all these "fallacies" so that you can denounce them.
Not them, the fallacies. Why not have good information?

Quote:
And the logical failure here is that all it takes is for one person to have a real problem and you'll see that as an outlier. You're not leaving this thread without thinking yourself the winner no matter what.
Oh no, the way I see this thread going, we’re all losers.

Quote:
These anecdotes aren't just like people referencing a single post from some anonymous poster in 2006. People run into these problems all the time but you refuse to believe these are real issues.
Some are real, many are not.

Quote:
No one says that. People have claimed that _some_ software instruments stop working after various software updates. Are you denying that this happens? That this has ever happened?
No, I really do read it a lot. Maybe they’re just being hyperbolic, but there seems to be a contingent that believes that “you’re always an OS update away from having your plugin never work again.”

Quote:
Are you seriously saying that you think driver issues are overblown? Can I suggest you go to any major manufacturer and read their support forums, perhaps searching for terms like "latency", "crackling", or "crashes"?

And it doesn't matter if this happens only once, the frequency of the occurrences isn't as important as the amplitude.
This is a ridiculous statement. What else are you going to find on a audio interface support forum? I’ll point you towards any hardware synth forum to find issues. It’s like watching Cops and assuming the town they’re shooting in is riddled with crime.

Quote:
For many people it's not the ones that keep working that matter, it's the ones that stopped. Sylenth1 happens to be one of the most popular plugins of all time, and its history is riddled with compatibility issues. But I suppose that's an outlier?
Is that even true? I hang out in KVR, and I owned Sylenth1 for years and years (finally sold it a few years ago when I found I was using other similar plugins more) but I never once had an issue on Mac or PC and I can’t for the life of me remember any big time complaint threads about it, other than ones complaining about slow development of new versions. A quick search only shows that people complained a bit when Windows 10 came out but it looks like a fix was soon released.I guess maybe it took a long time to go 64 bit? That has been an issue in plugins, that’s for sure. Luckily, Bitwig seems to have a built in bridge that does a great job. (My prized treasured Möbius plugin is 32 bit and will probably never be redone in 64, but so far so good. In Live I was using J-Bridge.)
Old 30th July 2019
  #86
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chaocrator's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
... though I’d say that the idea of someone who goes on stage with only a laptop is a pretty antiquated concept.
not really.
it's easier a lot to go anywhere with only laptop + audio interface + controller.
so, quite a lot of people, sometimes the whole scenes, just stuck with this scheme and don't care about hardware synthesizer renaissance.
Old 30th July 2019
  #87
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Things are getting weird in here, but some valid points have been mentioned. Computers make computer music, even if it’s rock, country, whatever... you can just hear it, and the producers just can’t help themselves. Even electronic music songs better without computers - old Eno, Harmonia, CAN, etc.

I’ve brought this up so much to my girlfriend that she can even hear it. We were listening to a country song the other day on the radio, it was a good song, I asked her “ what’s off in this song?” She immediately said “ the snare drum sounds fake, synthetic” and she was exactly right. We both listen to a lot of modern and antique electronic music, production and quality sounds vary vastly. My ears are tired of computer music.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #88
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
What's your "executive summary" of the current state, pros and cons, of Bitwig, in general, and if you feel like it - as compared to what you know of Live and Reaper?
I like it. There have been some issues (once the 32 bit bridge introduced odd latency for a while) but overall it’s very good. I really love the way Bitwig devices work. Kind of like what M4L was doing, but in a smoother more integrated way. Maybe Live 10 is like that? The only reason I abandoned Live was that I was really hankering for a poly pressure keyboard and I’d bought a Rise 49 and I’d gotten tired of the hoops i had to jump through to make it work. When 10 was announced and neither MPE or poly pressure support was listed, I said, “I’m out.” Sold Live 9 for the same cost of buying a used license of Bitwig. I still think Live is overall more intuitive and a little more mature seeming, but so far I have no major complaints and I love the way it’s modulation system works. It’s new Grid system is also seemingly really powerful, though I admit that I’ve not dug too deep into it. I’m mostly working on an art project at the moment, and my daughter is off from school, so studio time is limited.

Oh, and I don’t know Reaper. I’ve tried it and I have a hard time making sense of that one. I can’t say i gave it that much of a chance though. I used to really know Digital Performer inside and out, but that was a long time ago.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #89
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
This is true. I sold my soul for a pentium chip many moons ago.
I got hosed.

Sold mine for a C64 at an early age.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #90
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Even electronic music songs better without computers - old Eno, Harmonia, CAN, etc.
If I set out to make a track sounding exactly like that era I could do it on a computer. I have period correct gear for that sound and can imitate it easily with software.
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