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Computer denouncers: What’s been your actual experience?
Old 29th July 2019
  #31
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncarnateX View Post
Too bad, cannot contribute then. However, if the above were included, I could add that I nonetheless spend 10 years making music on PC and it was okay. But I grew up in the 80s and 90s and is biased toward hardware. A good all around workstation is what ITB meant before dawn of DAWs, and though all the modern stuff is just fine, there is no place like home. Simple as that. Do not need any stupid ass arguments against PCs to justify that choice.
You're not who I’m asking. As I said in my post, this is for people who are unhappy with their situation, but refuse to consider software as a solution. I understand that people have preferences. That’s not my issue. What is perplexing is when I see reasons listed that seem to be very different than what I’ve observed in a long history of using both hardware and software. Like denouncing the use of a computer because it will nag you to check your email.
Old 29th July 2019
  #32
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zerocrossing's Avatar
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Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
Haha... looks like someone just registered a new account to give some quality feedback

/C
He felt the need to send unedited versions of those directly to me as PMs, so I guess he really wants to make today his last day here.
Old 29th July 2019
  #33
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
I started ITB - Amiga Protracker
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Old 29th July 2019
  #34
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cixelsyd View Post

Maybe every discussion regarding synths as gear has been over covered on gs and we can now start discussing how to make better music.
ok, first step to making better music is to buy a new synth.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #35
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Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Am I supposed to spend 15 minutes reconfiguring my laptop every time I press it into DAW duty? And then reconfiguring it again when I’m done? Or am I supposed to keep multiple computers configured for different tasks? The advantage of a general-purpose device comes with disadvantages. That’s almost invariably the case.
For a specialized purpose like audio production, you should have a dedicated machine, though I imagine you could have multiple login accounts that reconfigure things between general use and audio production. Personally I find it just easier if my music computer is treated as a dedicated piece of DAW hardware. In this way I can benefit from the advantages of a general purpose device (cheap and abundant choices for software and peripherals) but not have to deal with some of the issues you bring up, which can be true if one is trying to have their PC (be it Apple or Windows based) be the way they brows Facebook and record music. I do think that what you’re complaining about is a big part of why some people totally denounce computers in their work. I have my PC as a pure DAW and it’s super stable and without issues that a lot of people complain about. I do general web browsing and illustration/graphic design on a Mac. Most f’n around on forums comes from an iOS device.
Old 29th July 2019
  #36
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I am after a particular sound and I don't care if it is coming from software or hardware, as long as it sounds as I think it should sound. The convenience is secondary.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #37
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Subverter's Avatar
 

There's not much hardware that takes as long to boot up as a computer.

Also, if say, one of my effects boxes goes down, I can still work - just not using those particular effects. Or a synth breaks, again, I can still work with the other gear.
If hard drive/motherboard/PSU/audio interface/BIOS/RAM/screen etc. go down, the whole job is screwed.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
... I do think that what you’re complaining about is a big part of why some people totally denounce computers in their work. I have my PC as a pure DAW and it’s super stable and without issues that a lot of people complain about. ...
i've always used my off-the-shelf pc for everything and have pretty much NEVER experienced any of these issues that people complain about. drivers, authorization, etc... can't even think of a bad situation other than when my HD died a few years ago on my old pc.

Ableton is running in the background right now, ready to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subverter View Post
There's not much hardware that takes as long to boot up as a computer.
this should be added to the OP as one of those ridiculous out-dated myths. my pc takes just seconds to boot up.

Quote:
Also, if say, one of my effects boxes goes down, I can still work - just not using those particular effects. Or a synth breaks, again, I can still work with the other gear.
If hard drive/motherboard/PSU/audio interface/BIOS/RAM/screen etc. go down, the whole job is screwed.
oh, sure, that stuff happens all the time... not. like not owning a car because you might get a flat tire.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by 808like View Post
YOU don't get to DECIDE our responses you FK!!!!!!!!!!

Unless one is using Linux (or BSD) and uses all OSS software (which you should if using computer), there are those intractable problems.

Only stupid morons pay for software. Like you. You are a stupid moron that doesn't know how to code and opposes men marrying cute young girls (YHWH explicitly allows men to marry female children in Devarim chapter 22, verse 28 (na'ar : hebrew (child), padia (greek septuagint: child), puella (latin vulgate: young girl)), including in cases of rape (taphas).

You oppose that too, because you are a _white_ man American consumer ******: everything you know or "own" (lol: software) was dictated to you by your masters.
Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808like View Post
Zero"IQ"ing IDIOT:
I spend ENOUF time behind a computer programming.
I DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT DURING RECORDING ETC.

Go to HELL you STUPID FK!
When?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808like View Post
zerocrossing: F&*K YOU
How?
Old 29th July 2019
  #40
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Actually, from my software/hardware agnostic stance (I have and use a lot of both), I can assure you that the way those conversations go is rarely like that. It’s more like this:

HW user: Software sounds like crap. Fake. If you’re OK with crappy sounds, have at it.

SW user: “but... in the Diva vs. OB-8 comparison, you picked Diva.”

HW user: “that test wasn’t fair!”
You seem like a nice person, knowledgeable, generally friendly, etc., so this is not some attack or dislike for you personally.

And yet you're about the least HWvsSW agnostic person I've ever encountered online, and are in my mind perhaps the biggest and most consistent cheerleader for software I have ever encountered online. And I say that withba friendly tone and chuckle

It's "your schtick", as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not saying there aren't valid points and stuff in there, there often are, but broseph, while I'd never dig it up because I don't care that much -- I suspect we'd be hard pressed to find more than a thin minority of threads you participate in where this POV isn't talked about by you, almost always.

Personally, to me, it's largely harmless, that's what you like, and this narrative in this thread and the 250 variations of it that arise in most every other thread are a testament to your godlike consistency in this regard. Whatever you are in life, online friend, you are an enormous, unrelenting, advocate for software and ITB, a point of view constantly buttressed by your "but I have Hardware too".

Most of it affects me none, and isn't inherently bad, but since you asked...

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Old 29th July 2019
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
I am after a particular sound and I don't care if it is coming from software or hardware, as long as it sounds as I think it should sound. The convenience is secondary.
This is me, as well. I keep about 8 (soon to become 9) hardware synths and about 5 dedicated audio processors. I choose each for varying reasons, but sound character is paramount (not sound quality as I don’t necessarily think there is a difference, but it’s not always easy to get the same character out of software as one can from hardware) but there are things like my Microfreak that were purchased purely because of their interface and playing surface. I know I could pretty much take care of it’s sounds using the free VeeCeeVST, but it is sometimes important to me to have a different way of interacting with an instrument than my controllers allow for.

That said, I love the s out of my Roli Rise 49, which is a good example of something that, at the moment, is best when being used to control Roli’s software. I know it’s possible to use other MPE compatible software and hardware synths (I’ve got an 002 for such things) but so far, my best experience is when using Equator, Cypher 2 or Strobe 2. So, when I hear people talking about how bad it is to bring a laptop on stage, I have to post something like this: (watch it all the way though, it’s worth it)

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Old 29th July 2019
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
How?
Whoo who!?!?!
Old 29th July 2019
  #43
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
How?
I actually like it slow and gentle. I’m a sensitive man.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #44
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Airplane is ready.

Hopefully not to that rich guy's sexy time island,
Old 29th July 2019
  #45
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
This is exactly what I’m talking about. A properly configured computer that’s being used as a DAW will never do this, yet I read statements like this on here all the time. It’s frustrating, because it shows me that smart people are basing their ideas on incomplete information. 15 minutes in your OS settings will rid you of pesky OS stuff like this. I’ll grant you that Microsoft and Apple are super guilty of including such things, but they’re very easily defeated. At least in Windows they are. I don’t use my Macs for music, so I haven’t tried. Also, I keep my machine in airplane mode when doing audio anyway.
I am honestly puzzled by this whole thread because you're not a troll, you understand this stuff, but you seem like you really want this to be a thread called "Everything you think is wrong with software is actually wrong with you"
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Old 29th July 2019
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
You seem like a nice person, knowledgeable, generally friendly, etc., so this is not some attack or dislike for you personally.

And yet you're about the least HWvsSW agnostic person I've ever encountered online, and are in my mind perhaps the biggest and most consistent cheerleader for software I have ever encountered online. And I say that withba friendly tone and chuckle

It's "your schtick", as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not saying there aren't valid points and stuff in there, there often are, but broseph, while I'd never dig it up because I don't care that much -- I suspect we'd be hard pressed to find more than a thin minority of threads you participate in where this POV isn't talked about by you, almost always.

Personally, to me, it's largely harmless, that's what you like, and this narrative in this thread and the 250 variations of it that arise in most every other thread are a testament to your godlike consistency in this regard. Whatever you are in life, online friend, you are an enormous, unrelenting, advocate for software and ITB, a point of view constantly buttressed by your "but I have Hardware too".

Most of it affects me none, and isn't inherently bad, but since you asked...

I think this is your perception because the prevailing stance on this forum is anti-computer. So while you may see me cheerleading software more often, it’s only because it seems under attack a lot more. I like to bring up a software vs. hardware thread where someone said that software as a horrible investment, and I went and did the math of what it would be like to have purchased a Model D new as an investment as opposed to taking that money and putting it in the bond market, and as it turned out, synths as an investment are not recommended. My post actually got taken down, but the post that made the original assertion was left unmolested. I get it. GearSlutz. I just happen to think of my computer as gear that runs my software instruments and effects.

Anyway, maybe this will help.
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Computer denouncers: What’s been your actual experience?-598d5ad0-eb26-4fd8-ba6e-5dcfec02ef98.jpg  
Old 29th July 2019
  #47
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

LOL at computer denouncers...
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Old 29th July 2019
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
I am honestly puzzled by this whole thread because you're not a troll, you understand this stuff, but you seem like you really want this to be a thread called "Everything you think is wrong with software is actually wrong with you"
Not everything, but I do honestly think that there is a lot of misinformation out there, or opinions based on anecdotal or outdated evidence.

For instance:

True: there has not been a really good general purpose MIDI controller for software plugins, so I would rather use hardware.

False: I don’t use software instruments because they all stop working after an OS update.

Do you see my point? It might seem like semantics, but I don’t think it is. The first statement is true because by their very nature, plugins are a moving target that may always be impossible to do a great physical controller for, while the second statement is probably based on some anecdote that happened to a few people. I’ve been literally been using some plugins since 2005 and they still run on my Windows machine, and I know this is a common occurrence.
Old 29th July 2019
  #49
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
... Anyway, maybe this will help.

[studio pic]
lol, it's almost exactly as i drew it. nice.
Old 29th July 2019
  #50
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Just to say, I think it’s equally bad when someone says, “I don’t buy any vintage synths because I don’t want to spend tons of money on maintenance.” I’m sure once a proper restoration takes place, one can get a long time out of a well taken care of vintage instrument.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
lol, it's almost exactly as i drew it. nice.
Trust me, you helped a lot.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #52
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Not everything, but I do honestly think that there is a lot of misinformation out there, or opinions based on anecdotal or outdated evidence.
But instead of accepting that people have lived these experiences and don't want to make the same concessions you do -- you instead are asking people to enumerate all these "fallacies" so that you can denounce them.

And the logical failure here is that all it takes is for one person to have a real problem and you'll see that as an outlier. You're not leaving this thread without thinking yourself the winner no matter what.

These anecdotes aren't just like people referencing a single post from some anonymous poster in 2006. People run into these problems all the time but you refuse to believe these are real issues.

Quote:
False: I don’t use software instruments because they all stop working after an OS update.
No one says that. People have claimed that _some_ software instruments stop working after various software updates. Are you denying that this happens? That this has ever happened?

Are you seriously saying that you think driver issues are overblown? Can I suggest you go to any major manufacturer and read their support forums, perhaps searching for terms like "latency", "crackling", or "crashes"?

And it doesn't matter if this happens only once, the frequency of the occurrences isn't as important as the amplitude.

Quote:
I’ve been literally been using some plugins since 2005 and they still run on my Windows machine, and I know this is a common occurrence.
For many people it's not the ones that keep working that matter, it's the ones that stopped. Sylenth1 happens to be one of the most popular plugins of all time, and its history is riddled with compatibility issues. But I suppose that's an outlier?
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Old 29th July 2019
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Airplane is ready.


Img1: Last image of 808like before he departed.

He is gone of this forum.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #54
Lives for gear
 
ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Just to say, I think it’s equally bad when someone says, “I don’t buy any vintage synths because I don’t want to spend tons of money on maintenance.” I’m sure once a proper restoration takes place, one can get a long time out of a well taken care of vintage instrument.
That is a 100% valid reason not to buy a vintage instrument. People have different reasons for their preferences, what is actually hard to accept here? That you simply disagree?

Maintaining a vintage synth is a terrifying experience, even for the ones that are known for being reliable. My Jupiter 8 is my favorite instrument but I know if it dies I'm screwed because there are no techs anywhere near me.
Old 29th July 2019
  #55
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
I thought the rich guy moved up the river. To the Big House. You know... to the cooler. Aka the slammer.
Let's hope it involves lots of involuntary slamming.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subverter View Post
There's not much hardware that takes as long to boot up as a computer.
What hardware ?
Moog One definitely boots up slower than my PC.
What computer ?
Current gen or 15 years old ?
IQ of the human who set up that computer ?
If you care about fast boot time (i don't because my PC is always on when i am awake), it can be just few seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subverter View Post
Also, if say, one of my effects boxes goes down, I can still work - just not using those particular effects. Or a synth breaks, again, I can still work with the other gear.
If hard drive/motherboard/PSU/audio interface/BIOS/RAM/screen etc. go down, the whole job is screwed.
If one of your rare, vintage and already decades out of production synths breaks... It is weeks to repair it if you can even find a good tech that will do it.
If your recording session depended on it... You can't just use another one.

If one of your PC parts breaks, you can have your PC up and running in just few hours.
BTW Don't we all have more than 1 computer ?
3 and a half here (half is a tablet, but it can record and synthesize audio too).

And always keep backups of your important files on multiple HDDs/SSDs/Clouds.
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Old 29th July 2019
  #57
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I think this is your perception because the prevailing stance on this forum is anti-computer. So while you may see me cheerleading software more often, it’s only because it seems under attack a lot more. I like to bring up a software vs. hardware thread where someone said that software as a horrible investment, and I went and did the math of what it would be like to have purchased a Model D new as an investment as opposed to taking that money and putting it in the bond market, and as it turned out, synths as an investment are not recommended. My post actually got taken down, but the post that made the original assertion was left unmolested. I get it. GearSlutz. I just happen to think of my computer as gear that runs my software instruments and effects.

Anyway, maybe this will help.
What's that saying... "if you think everyone around you is an a$$hole, it's probably you...".

Substitute (whatever) for a$$hole, because you're not that, but your POV is fairly unique I'd wager.

In other words, it might be you.

I'm sure it's a mix, like most things, and I wasn't even sure you were/are entirely aware.

And software doesn't need defending, you know. Big Hardware isn't keeping the little software guy down. It's already enormously popular. So there's no real need or benefit to inserting it into every possible niche and topic.

If nerds want to nerd out about hardware and complain about software, even if they're not entirely correct in their assumptions or characterizatioms, that ought to be fine.

Sometimes it's too much like this cartoon, even when spoken in a friendly tone:



(not that most are immune to it themselves, I certainly do it on occasion).

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Old 30th July 2019
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
What's that saying... "if you think everyone around you is an a$$hole, it's probably you...".

Substitute (whatever) for a$$hole, because you're not that, but your POV is fairly unique I'd wager.

In other words, it might be you.

I'm sure it's a mix, like most things, and I wasn't even sure you were/are entirely aware.

And software doesn't need defending, you know. Big Hardware isn't keeping the little software guy down. It's already enormously popular. So there's no real need or benefit to inserting it into every possible niche and topic.

If nerds want to nerd out about hardware and complain about software, even if they're not entirely correct in their assumptions or characterizatioms, that ought to be fine.

Sometimes it's too much like this cartoon, even when spoken in a friendly tone:



(not that most are immune to it themselves, I certainly do it on occasion).

You’re right, but I am genuinely interested in how people come up with their stances. I’m not interested in the “this is what I like, live and let live” but more about the 808likes of this forum, who have this sort of vendetta against software. Where does that come from? It seems beyond just a dislike, but more about discrediting. Like just saying that you don’t like using a computer isn’t enough, and you have to draw some blood to make your point.
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Old 30th July 2019
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
You’re right, but I am genuinely interested in how people come up with their stances.
If they clearly define their problems, we can attempt to solve these problems together.
Or if it is impossible to solve the problems, then at least come to an understanding.

For example one of my biggest problems with hardware synths, is flat user interfaces that can't be lifted up like it is possible on the Matrixbrute, or Minimoog.
Few hours of working with such a flat interface synth causes a major pain in the back of my neck.
While i can sit at the PC for more than 10 hours a day every day.

But that is OT, lets continue about how it is impossible to work with software.
Old 30th July 2019
  #60
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Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
You’re right, but I am genuinely interested in how people come up with their stances. I’m not interested in the “this is what I like, live and let live” but more about the 808likes of this forum, who have this sort of vendetta against software. Where does that come from? It seems beyond just a dislike, but more about discrediting. Like just saying that you don’t like using a computer isn’t enough, and you have to draw some blood to make your point.
Sure.

Ultimately you're just (accurately) describing a widespread aspect of modernity and humanity that is equally sort of dumb everywhere it pops up.

See: team sports, politics, relationships, and the rest.

I estimate between 94.2395618394% and 100% of all humans have an irrational or overblown dislike for something, often based at least in part on bad informatiom or the absence of it.

You'll drive yourself cray cray trying to understand or solve that problem. You can't engineer out the stupid. My IT career tought me that early on. People are just F-ing weird in some ways.

que sera sera / c'est la vie / it just IS.

You're more likely to talk a tree into being a turtle.
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