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What percentage of studios are okay with substance use by artists during the session? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 1 week ago
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
For real. I thought studios with a "no weed here" policy -> out of business. Its gone hand in hand with creative musicianship since the 60s. Beatles would bounce and go create somewhere else.
that's why they had sober session musicians to play what they couldn't play when stoned out of their minds
Old 1 week ago
  #92
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
For real. I thought studios with a "no weed here" policy -> out of business. Its gone hand in hand with creative musicianship since the 60s. Beatles would bounce and go create somewhere else.
Mostly, the weed thing for me is... don't do anything involving smoke around my gear.

True that a few hits can spark creativity, as long as everyone remains in control. I guess it comes down to the professional attitude of the players when they walked in. Some artists become inspired with a few good hits, and other think they become inspired after five bowls. I'm not so much into that these days. Better things to do with my time.
Old 1 week ago
  #93
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
If some studio owner feels superior to me because he's 'clean' or feel like moralizing or pushing some mental purity agenda, sorry, that's not an artistic/free environment, and I'll find somewhere else very quickly.
I think there is a meaningful difference between not allowing smoking drinking or doing lines IN THE STUDIO and a studio owner feeling “superior”. I smoke plenty of weed but always take it outside because I don’t want the extra smoke dust and wear on my gear, but that doesn’t mean I’m judging anyone. Drinking falls into a similar camp. Coke is just not something I want around me so if you need to do that on studio time then we probably aren’t the right fit, but I’m not pushing an agenda or moralizing, just protecting my investment.
Old 1 week ago
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
I think there is a meaningful difference between not allowing smoking drinking or doing lines IN THE STUDIO and a studio owner feeling “superior”. I smoke plenty of weed but always take it outside because I don’t want the extra smoke dust and wear on my gear, but that doesn’t mean I’m judging anyone. Drinking falls into a similar camp. Coke is just not something I want around me so if you need to do that on studio time then we probably aren’t the right fit, but I’m not pushing an agenda or moralizing, just protecting my investment.
Exactly. Been there, done that and the hard **** I just don't want to be around in general nowadays, and that includes in the studio.

Although I admit, I smoke weed right in front of my gear at home heh. I keep that stuff in the bedroom studio, it stays out of the living room at home since Im the only stoner in the house. The cigs have to go outside though. Still on the fence about vaping. It doesn't leave the yellow residue nicotine smoke does, but the vegetable glycerin in it definitely leaves a sticky film on things, you should see it when I clean the inside of my car windows.
Old 1 week ago
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist View Post
that's why they had sober session musicians to play what they couldn't play when stoned out of their minds
Exactly how willing are you to stand behind this statement that the Beatles used session musicians because they were too stoned to play the parts themselves?
Old 1 week ago
  #96
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robby in WA View Post
Miles did Kind of Blue right after he kicked. Arguably the best album ever made.


Besides all the other bad side effects; cocaine is not a musical drug. There's a few exceptions: Rumors, early '70's Miles, but not in my experience.
Miles kicked it in '54. KOB was recorded in '59.

His '55-'57 quintet, the only clean member was him - Red Garland, Trane, Mr PC and Philly Joe were all hooked.

Miles did cocaine in the 70s, and admits to it in his autobiography w/ Quincy Troupe. Trane kicked his habit in '57, though he experimented with LSD in the mid 60s. Supposedly Om and Live in Seattle were recorded with Trane tripping...
Old 1 week ago
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
For real. I thought studios with a "no weed here" policy -> out of business. Its gone hand in hand with creative musicianship since the 60s. Beatles would bounce and go create somewhere else.
But the Beatles DIDN’T bounce from Abbey Road as new artists. I seriously doubt that any drugs or paraphernalia were an open part of early sessions there. The contemporary accounts describe the early 60s Abbey Road as a very straight corporate studio where the techs wore white lab coats. Of course cigarettes and tobacco pipes were allowed in almost every workplace, which is not the case today.
New artists generally follow the house rules if they want to record in a particular studio. When the studio wants a name artist to use their studio, the roles are somewhat reversed. These days, studios are usually on the needy end of that calculation.
Old 1 week ago
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
But the Beatles DIDN’T bounce from Abbey Road as new artists. I seriously doubt that any drugs or paraphernalia were an open part of early sessions there. The contemporary accounts describe the early 60s Abbey Road as a very straight corporate studio where the techs wore white lab coats. Of course cigarettes and tobacco pipes were allowed in almost every workplace, which is not the case today.
New artists generally follow the house rules if they want to record in a particular studio. When the studio wants a name artist to use their studio, the roles are somewhat reversed. These days, studios are usually on the needy end of that calculation.
Right, and by the time they were into their drugs Abbey Road was happy to continue hosting them.

I get it, if you're running a professional studio and mostly deal with knuckleheads, you set your rules around that and then allow exceptions.

I think like the artist and hate rules and restrictions and anything in the way of the natural flow, but the engineers have to be the responsible ones, the parent in the room, I get it.
Old 1 week ago
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Miles kicked it in '54. KOB was recorded in '59.

His '55-'57 quintet, the only clean member was him - Red Garland, Trane, Mr PC and Philly Joe were all hooked.

Miles did cocaine in the 70s, and admits to it in his autobiography w/ Quincy Troupe. Trane kicked his habit in '57, though he experimented with LSD in the mid 60s. Supposedly Om and Live in Seattle were recorded with Trane tripping...

Bill Evans and John Coltrane were keyfigures on the KOB album and heavy drug users.
At the same time Bill Evans was one of the great inventors on piano in the last century.
It's the same case with Charlie Parker who was one of the greatest inventors of bebop, he was addicted all his live.
A lot of the old jazz cats were addicted; Louis Armstrong was a marihuana user all his live and he will always be remembered for what he did for jazz.

I'm not saying that drugs is good for everybody but some people make some serious good music while they have a habit of using drugs.
But it seems to be a thing of the past because I have the impression that nowadays in the jazz scene most players don't do much drugs at all.
Old 1 week ago
  #100
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by willem1958 View Post
Bill Evans and John Coltrane were keyfigures on the KOB album and heavy drug users.
At the same time Bill Evans was one of the great inventors on piano in the last century.
It's the same case with Charlie Parker who was one of the greatest inventors of bebop, he was addicted all his live.
A lot of the old jazz cats were addicted; Louis Armstrong was a marihuana user all his live and he will always be remembered for what he did for jazz.

I'm not saying that drugs is good for everybody but some people make some serious good music while they have a habit of using drugs.
But it seems to be a thing of the past because I have the impression that nowadays in the jazz scene most players don't do much drugs at all.

Correlation does not imply causation e.g. drugs do not cause artists to make better music/art.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet if there is a scientific study out there somewhere it would probably show the exact opposite.

The musicians you mentioned just happen to be extremely gifted musicians...who were coincidentally on drugs.

There isn't a shred of evidence showing causation. In fact many of these musicians made equally compelling art when not on drugs.



https://towardsdatascience.com/why-c...n-5b99790df07e




[Late Add] I don't consider marijuana to be a heavy drug. That being said, most of the musicians I have ever encountered play better when not stoned but don't know it...because they are too stoned to tell the difference.
Old 1 week ago
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post

[Late Add] I don't consider marijuana to be a heavy drug. That being said, most of the musicians I have ever encountered play better when not stoned but don't know it...because they are too stoned to tell the difference.
that's been my experience as well, always worse after they've got stoned.
Old 1 week ago
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
most of the musicians I have ever encountered play better when not stoned but don't know it...because they are too stoned to tell the difference.
That’s ALMOST my experience. I think the seductive part of playing while high, especially soloing, is that sometimes the player actually does play better, perhaps from being a bit beyond normal inhibitions and habits.
As a mundane example, many decades ago there was a gifted guitarist and singer playing in a bar band with me for a couple of years. Without alcohol he was always very good. With a couple of drinks his leads were even better. A few more drinks and he was back to average. More drinks and the leads were headed towards fairly awful. But in his mind he just got better and better.
Old 1 week ago
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Correlation does not imply causation e.g. drugs do not cause artists to make better music/art.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet if there is a scientific study out there somewhere it would probably show the exact opposite.

The musicians you mentioned just happen to be extremely gifted musicians...who were coincidentally on drugs.

There isn't a shred of evidence showing causation. In fact many of these musicians made equally compelling art when not on drugs.



https://towardsdatascience.com/why-c...n-5b99790df07e


[Late Add] I don't consider marijuana to be a heavy drug. That being said, most of the musicians I have ever encountered play better when not stoned but don't know it...because they are too stoned to tell the difference.
Mind expanders help with creativity and exploration and pioneering and opening up new channels of thought while ripping down defense mechanisms and habitual patterns.

They’re good for creativity. Not so much performance. Which are two entirely different phases of the record making process. Use them appropriately.

Many have a lasting effect, new channels of thought remain open and present, so musicians who’ve used them remain in a more open state from that point forward. I don’t think it’s coincidence that most respected musicians, even many classical composers, found them useful for at least a phase of their creative life.
Old 1 week ago
  #104
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Correlation does not imply causation e.g. drugs do not cause artists to make better music/art.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet if there is a scientific study out there somewhere it would probably show the exact opposite.

The musicians you mentioned just happen to be extremely gifted musicians...who were coincidentally on drugs.

There isn't a shred of evidence showing causation. In fact many of these musicians made equally compelling art when not on drugs.



https://towardsdatascience.com/why-c...n-5b99790df07e




[Late Add] I don't consider marijuana to be a heavy drug. That being said, most of the musicians I have ever encountered play better when not stoned but don't know it...because they are too stoned to tell the difference.

I don't say that people play better if they're stoned or high.
I say that in those days a lot of the jazz musicians used drugs and still made good music.
Old 1 week ago
  #105
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
It’s not really a scene that’s actively alive and being pioneered anymore. It’s professors and students keeping it alive through academic institutionalism.
Within my local sphere, it's session cats doing it for fun and stimulation. And they don't just play, they write (their asses off) and record. Not because they're gonna make money at it, it's more like a compulsion. Or an addiction.
Old 1 week ago
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Actually, I'd be willing to bet if there is a scientific study out there somewhere it would probably show the exact opposite.
Most of the research has to do with rewiring the brain and thought processes towards overcoming PTSD and depression, where enormous lasting transformations are shown. If you zoom out to "lasting transformation" being the effect, and assume that this transformation applies to things other than depression, there's a huge amount of evidence.

There's also this, from before the US outlawed these types of studies. It basically says what I said: technical ability is lowered, but creative ideas and aesthetics are increased: https://books.google.com/books?id=39...page&q&f=false

"Although the study showed that there was some impairment of technical ability among the artist, a panel of independent art critics judged the experimental paintings as having "greater aesthetic value" than the artist's usual work."

"As with Berlin's study, there was a general agreement by the judges that the craftsmanship of the LSD paintings suffered, however many received higher marks for imagination."


Along with the anecdotal evidence of all the musicians and artists themselves talking about the benefits by sharing their own experiences.

I don't think there's any denial that certain drugs can help open brain channels and overcome habitual thought patterns, which are things that will enhance creativity.
Old 1 week ago
  #107
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
It’s not really a scene that’s actively alive and being pioneered anymore. It’s professors and students keeping it alive through academic institutionalism.
You need to get out more.

The Bad Plus
Brad Mehldau
Snarky Puppy
Antonio Sanchez and Migration
Brian Blade and Fellowship
Esperanza Spalding.....

A bunch in Europe I'm just learning about. The "old" guys are still out there too, Wayne Shorter just put a great record out.

Jazz isn't just swing anymore (my group makes extensive use of jazz harmony, but few hear "jazz") and it hasn't dominated the charts since the early '60's, but it is alive and well.
Old 1 week ago
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robby in WA View Post
You need to get out more.

The Bad Plus
Brad Mehldau
Snarky Puppy
Antonio Sanchez and Migration
Brian Blade and Fellowship
Esperanza Spalding.....

A bunch in Europe I'm just learning about. The "old" guys are still out there too, Wayne Shorter just put a great record out.

Jazz isn't just swing anymore (my group makes extensive use of jazz harmony, but few hear "jazz") and it hasn't dominated the charts since the early '60's, but it is alive and well.
Its true I don't follow the current jazz scene and have no idea whether the comment I replied to was even correct in the first place about jazz folks no longer doing drugs. I'll delete it so it doesn't derail things.

EDIT - The point I was trying to get at is that lots of creatives still use drugs for the purpose of creative enhancement. That's never going to go away, even if it may fade in certain scenes. DMT for example has seen a resurgence in the LA and California creative scenes the past 5 years. Shrooms are always present (Denver is about to make them legal). LSD is still around. Just look at Burning Man, and that's just one small microcosm.

Last edited by newguy1; 1 week ago at 06:30 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #109
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by willem1958 View Post
Bill Evans and John Coltrane were keyfigures on the KOB album and heavy drug users.
As I stated, Trane was clean for two years when KOB was recorded.

Miles essentially kicked him out of his band in '57 because of it. That led to him playing with
Monk for awhile, and it wasn't till '58 that he joined Miles' sextet that had Cannonball in it.
Old 1 week ago
  #110
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Funny Cat's Avatar
I don't buy it. Sorry. I've seen enough people ruin their lives using hard drugs even musicians....heck, mostly musicians actually.

I think you could get the same creative juices flowing doing yoga, meditating or exercising.

"Just say NO!" to HARD drugs in the studio - especially coke and LSD. Now where is that Nancy Reagan emoji when you need it, lol.
Old 1 week ago
  #111
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Yeah I wouldn't do things like that if you're paying to use a 3rd party studio. By that point most of the creative ideas should be ironed out. Their place would come before then, more towards the start of the process, or as something separate from the direct creative process, a personal exploration/step-outside-myself process that will spill over creatively across the board.

There are definitely substances that open brain pathways beyond what you'd achieve through meditation, yoga, and exercise though, or at least shortcut things quite a bit (perhaps these same pathways can be opened up through intense meditation over long periods of time).

My meditations are significantly enhanced by things as simple as adaptogenics like ashwaghanda and reishi mushrooms, which have a history of being a spiritual meditation aid going back 1000s of years. Spiritualists have recognized for millennia that there are many foods and substances that nourish the mind and enhance meditative abilities. https://www.elephantjournal.com/2016...tion-practice/

There's definitely a long history of using various aids along with meditation to increase and enhance the benefits you're able to receive.
Old 1 week ago
  #112
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
"Just say NO!" to HARD drugs in the studio - especially coke and LSD.
LSD is still a thing? Was it ever?
Old 1 week ago
  #113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
LSD is still a thing? Was it ever?
Was pretty big until about 1999/2000 or so? I knew some pretty heavy dudes that used to actually get it from a chemist up in SF. It all kinda dried up and disappeared around that time but it was everywhere at least here in Cali before that. Cant remember but I think there were some very significant busts around the end of the century. Its not like anyone could grow it like you can weed, or throw some crap from under your sink together for some meth, take out the few remaining free sources and its gone for good.
Old 1 week ago
  #114
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
LSD is still a thing? Was it ever?
It was for many of my deadhead friends.

BTW, Psilocybin just became decriminalized in Denver.

I could never handle psychedelics - always did too much, always too intense. I probably wouldn't make for a good junkie either.

I don't see the harm in pot though. Pertaining to the OP, I could see zero tolerance on heroin or LSD (or meth, etc), but those things aren't gonna be done in the open, at least you'd think so. I could see studio owners not allowing any sort of smoke inside. But this day and age, it's kinda prudish to have negative attitudes about weed, if so one would have to feel the same way about alcohol.

Though depending on the situation, I'd think there might be some flexibility. MJ, as much as he was averse to cigarettes and booze, he allowed it in his presence to accommodate and acquiesce Slash.
Old 1 week ago
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
Was pretty big until about 1999/2000 or so? I knew some pretty heavy dudes that used to actually get it from a chemist up in SF. It all kinda dried up and disappeared around that time but it was everywhere at least here in Cali before that. Cant remember but I think there were some very significant busts around the end of the century. Its not like anyone could grow it like you can weed, or throw some crap from under your sink together for some meth, take out the few remaining free sources and its gone for good.
Not sure if its back to "everywhere" but its been popping up more and more frequently the last 5-6 years. I have some now from an artist I worked with just leaving it around. Too heavy for me!

Micro-dosing it on a daily basis is big in many circles, including Silicon Valley and Fortune 500 businesses: https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...nd/?redirect=1

"You’ve probably heard about microdosing, the “productivity hack” popular among Silicon Valley engineers and business leaders. Microdosers take regular small doses of LSD or magic mushrooms. At these doses, they don’t experience mind-bending, hallucinatory trips, but they say they get a jolt in creativity and focus that can elevate work performance, help relationships, and generally improve a stressful and demanding daily life. If its proponents are to be believed, microdosing offers the cure for an era dominated by digital distractions and existential anxiety—a cup of coffee with a little Tony Robbins stirred in."

Shrooms have never gone away though, and are on the path to legalization, I expect they'll be where weed is at in 10 years. Hopefully the scientific community can go back to exploring its benefits openly and with medical journal acceptance.
Old 1 week ago
  #116
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It can't be too long before smoking banana peel is trendy again somewhere.
To illustrate how naive most people were in the late ‘60s, there was little distance between how all these drugs (and fake drugs) were perceived by many potential consumers. “Mellow Yellow”, which had only imaginary effects was thought of as little different from pot, LSD, heroin, meth, cocaine, mushrooms, whatever. It took a combination of local and famous tragedies over a number of years to educate new users that there was little serious risk (other than the legal consequences) from using some of these drugs, but an almost certain risk of addiction and even possible death from using others.
Old 1 week ago
  #117
and don't forget how many famous musicians died or became mentally ill through drug use some of the legal some of them illegal: Syd Barrett, Peter Green, Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley to name just a handful.

What annoys me about casual drug users is they don't research the link between long-term use and mental illness in particular, there is some interesting research that has proven weed can massively increase the chance of psychosis and other illnesses like schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, all of them very serious and life changing. Druggies just don't want to know, doesn't matter how much evidence you present to them, they ignore it all.
Old 1 week ago
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
So many puritans here..
Yeah or maybe just people who lost friends, family, to addiction and abuse. I'm no puritan and I don't abstain, but I'm also not stupid, drug use comes with a price attached.
Old 1 week ago
  #119
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Originally Posted by Philter View Post
I'm no puritan.
Yeah, but if you look good in hats it does have a certain appeal.
Old 1 week ago
  #120
Gear Guru
What I love was the networks wouldn't run pot based product ads during the SuperBowl. Every other commercial was for beer... diet soda ain't too good for you either (or any soda for that matter!)...... Personally dosage is what matters..... I'm pretty useless after coming down offa six cups of coffee also......

It is really sad to hear of a blown session which turned into a very expensive party which was great fun before the bill became due!......
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