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-   -   Bizarre vocal trend (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-free-zone-shoot-the-breeze/1257794-bizarre-vocal-trend.html)

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert82 (Post 14154992)
Factually, maybe 8 to 10%. But, still, sexist much?

Officially 1/4, unoffically 1/2(illegally sourced + various opioids), under 30 years old. You seem very bussy being political correct on my posts.:)

chessparov2.0 18th August 2019 12:08 AM

So within the Typical American Family... Do these statistics include half brothers and sisters?:gooof
Chris

dublave 18th August 2019 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155026)
Officially 1/4, unoffically 1/2(illegally sourced + various opioids), under 30 years old. You seem very bussy being political correct on my posts.:)

"Politically correct" as in not a sexist asshole.

robert82 18th August 2019 01:30 AM

In the interest of gender balance here, for every cringey Ariana Grande vocal, there's a corresponding cringey Shawn Mendez vocal.
Have no idea if either is on anti-depressants. However, when listening to either voice I need at least some medicinal assistance in order not to risk spontaneous esophageal eruption.

drsaamah 18th August 2019 04:37 AM

I just like that @ chessparov2.0 immediately put @ monkeyxx 's Zappa quote in his signature.

chessparov2.0 18th August 2019 06:47 AM

I only take from the best! :)
Chris

Moondog007 18th August 2019 07:18 AM

Funny stuff... Always strange vocal fashions coming and going. People mentioned lots of good ones here. Everyone wanted to sound like Eddie Vedder for a while there with a closed mouth. Now the Drake vocal sound is everywhere in pop which I hate. Many artists influenced by Reggae sung like English was a second language when it wasn’t. Message in a bottle by Sting is a good example. Sounds quasi Jamaican. Then there is the trend of English bands sounding very Northern in their accents while singing. Blur/arctic monkeys etc. Always strange that English northern bands from decades past never sung like this for example The Beatles. Blink 182ish vocals were all the rage with a super emphasised USA accent as well. Then there are the amazing singers like Jeff Buckley, Aretha Franklin, Paul McCartney, Ceelo Green, Freddie etc that sound amazing and unique in every decade without resorting to vocal tricks. I think the great voices of Bruno Mars, Ariana Grande are examples of great modern voices.

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dublave (Post 14155095)
"Politically correct" as in not a sexist asshole.

You don't even know what a "sexist" is, yet here you are being a clueless white knight. Good luck with that. :)

DistortingJack 18th August 2019 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155341)
You don't even know what a "sexist" is, yet here you are being a clueless white knight. Good luck with that. :)

Spouting expressions like "white knight", "politically correct" and stupid sexist crap might be OK on other parts of the internet, but f*ck if I'm going to be OK with that on a sound engineering forum like this one. Go back to incelchan or something.

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14155451)
Spouting expressions like "white knight", "politically correct" and stupid sexist crap might be OK on other parts of the internet, but f*ck if I'm going to be OK with that on a sound engineering forum like this one. Go back to incelchan or something.

I'm not ok with junk like this either, but giving an explanation on why certain vocal/sound trend exists triggers some people that are very quick in harassing the messenger by adding politics and female rights into discussion. Your behaviour is similar and you're no better than the other harassers.

When almost half of the female population in US under 30 is on some kind of psychiatric medication or indulging on opioids and other hullucinogenic substances it will obviously influence the music industry on profound levels. In my opinion this is the reason why such songs exist and do so well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbMwTqkKSps

It doesn't mean I'm 100% right, but if we wish to explain certain trends we need to take a look at the bigger picture, and be aware of the social aspects as well. This is what I did. Do you see how constructive criticism works? I hope you do now. kfhkh

Moondog007 18th August 2019 10:40 AM

Politics is not welcome on gearslutz and against forum rules!!! This includes virtue signalling, political shaming, accusations of racism, sexism, partisan comments etc. Keep your pet theories on society and sociology to yourself as well. A U47 does not express political opinions, nor should these forums.

DistortingJack 18th August 2019 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155490)
triggers

Again with the at-right dogwhistles. Ffs. Normal people don't just use that word. You're insidiously mainstreaming ideas that don't belong outside of chan forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155490)
harassing the messenger by adding politics and female rights into discussion.

You made a gross sexist comment and now you can't take the heat. Don't try to make yourself the victim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155490)
When almost half of the female population in US under 30 is on some kind of psychiatric medication or indulging on opioids and other hullucinogenic substances it will obviously influence the music industry on profound levels. In my opinion this is the reason why such songs exist and do so well:

First of all that song is fantastic and you'll likely never write or produce anything as witty, earnest, or well-written as that. Also, a vast majority of the best and most famous rock music since the '90s alternative rock through post grunge, nu metal, and at least the end of the emo era, was not just very male dominated, but also as whiny and emotional and depressive as this, if not more. I was going to point to specific songs, albums, or bands, but honestly it's a majority.

You're basically conflating a "get off my lawn!" getting-older-and-out-of-touch with a serious strain of sexism, and amplifying it with alt-right talking points.

Also, with regards to drugs and hallucinogens, what world are you living in? A large minority or possibly a majority of musicians since the '60s has been on some sort of drug when making their best music. Not that you need to, but pointing the finger at women only is not just contrived but completely ridiculous.

As Bill Hicks said (and as quoted in Tool's Third Eye):

“You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal ****ing high on drugs. The Beatles were so ****ing high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.”


Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog007 (Post 14155496)
Politics is not welcome on gearslutz and against forum rules!!! This includes virtue signalling, political shaming, accusations of racism, sexism, partisan comments etc. Keep your pet theories on society and sociology to yourself as well. A U47 does not express political opinions, nor should these forums.

I agree that racism, politics, and sexism shouldn't be welcome. Pointing them out is part of the process of them not being welcome.

Moondog007 18th August 2019 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14155514)
Again with the at-right dogwhistles. Ffs. Normal people don't just use that word. You're insidiously mainstreaming ideas that don't belong outside of chan forums.



You made a gross sexist comment and now you can't take the heat. Don't try to make yourself the victim.



First of all that song is fantastic and you'll likely never write or produce anything as witty, earnest, or well-written as that. Also, a vast majority of the best and most famous rock music since the '90s alternative rock through post grunge, nu metal, and at least the end of the emo era, was not just very male dominated, but also as whiny and emotional and depressive as this, if not more. I was going to point to specific songs, albums, or bands, but honestly it's a majority.

You're basically conflating a "get off my lawn!" getting-older-and-out-of-touch with a serious strain of sexism, and amplifying it with alt-right talking points.

Also, with regards to drugs and hallucinogens, what world are you living in? A large minority or possibly a majority of musicians since the '60s has been on some sort of drug when making their best music. Not that you need to, but pointing the finger at women only is not just contrived but completely ridiculous.

As Bill Hicks said (and as quoted in Tool's Third Eye):

“You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal ****ing high on drugs. The Beatles were so ****ing high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.”




I agree that racism, politics, and sexism shouldn't be welcome. Pointing them out is part of the process of them not being welcome.


But u are not the arbiter of what counts as racism or sexism. Even if u were, ‘pointing it out’ in the manner u did was an overtly political act and against forum rules. That is obvious to others here as well. Accusations of ‘alt right’ ‘sexism’ and ‘dog whistles’ are terms dripping with political ideology. They have no place here. Don’t get me wrong, comments about the percentage of females on medication I think is also v inappropriate here also and totally off topic as well as being an absurd explanation for singing voices. I’m not interested in someone’s sociological pet theory on that topic either. You can urge someone to stay on topic without getting political. This applies equally to those on any side of politics.

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14155514)
Again with the at-right dogwhistles. Ffs. Normal people don't just use that word. You're insidiously mainstreaming ideas that don't belong outside of chan forums.



You made a gross sexist comment and now you can't take the heat. Don't try to make yourself the victim.



First of all that song is fantastic and you'll likely never write or produce anything as witty, earnest, or well-written as that. Also, a vast majority of the best and most famous rock music since the '90s alternative rock through post grunge, nu metal, and at least the end of the emo era, was not just very male dominated, but also as whiny and emotional and depressive as this, if not more. I was going to point to specific songs, albums, or bands, but honestly it's a majority.

You're basically conflating a "get off my lawn!" getting-older-and-out-of-touch with a serious strain of sexism, and amplifying it with alt-right talking points.

Also, with regards to drugs and hallucinogens, what world are you living in? A large minority or possibly a majority of musicians since the '60s has been on some sort of drug when making their best music. Not that you need to, but pointing the finger at women only is not just contrived but completely ridiculous.

As Bill Hicks said (and as quoted in Tool's Third Eye):

“You see, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were rrreal ****ing high on drugs. The Beatles were so ****ing high they let Ringo sing a few tunes.”




I agree that racism, politics, and sexism shouldn't be welcome. Pointing them out is part of the process of them not being welcome.

Oh, boy, you sure knew what you're doing when you picked that nickname. :lol:

1. There is no heat of anything sexist. You created it, and lives only in your mind. Pointing out behavioral facts about the American female population has nothing to do with sexism. You don't understand the meaning of this term, and you should stop using it.

2. You dislike political content on gearslutz, yet you are labeling me as an alt-right person (is that good or bad, you'll have to tell me, you keep bringing politics in spite of hating it, so I imagine you're good at it, but perhaps terrible in admiting it :) );

3. I don't care if song writers use drugs or not, it's their personal life, I use my ears to judge it, and so does everyone else. Nobody cares what writers/singers do in their private life. This is not relevant to our debate here. If you're trying to point that drugs don't alter your perception of reality you have a problem. Good luck with that. :)

4. That Billie Eilish song, or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TsVjvEkc4s

or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaJx0Gj_LCY

and many more from today do so well and are highly popular because their target public - half of the American female population under 30 - is in a mental state altered from ingesting psychiatric medication, opioids, alcohol and other hallucinogenic substances. Yes, so called "depressive" songs always existed, but where they as popular as today in US?! There's an obvious correlation between the way you manipulate your own body and what you project, and there is an obvious trend going on when you have a critical mass of many young females behaving in a similar manner that keeps growing and growing as time passes in parallel with the growing popularity of "depressing" tracks. Can you connect the dots? If you refuse to accept a fact, you refuse reality. Are you?

5. After reading the above are you sure that is me who should you be concerned of "getting-older-and-out-of-touch"? freshflowe

Moondog007 18th August 2019 12:30 PM

Can a moderator clean this thread up and take out the political posturing and virtue signalling from one member as well as folk psychological theories about medication from another. Can’t see how either have the slightest bit of relevance to the topic.

DistortingJack 18th August 2019 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog007 (Post 14155565)
But u are not the arbiter of what counts as racism or sexism.

No, I’m not, that’s down to the moderators. And I hope all of this will be deleted alongside the original sexist comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog007 (Post 14155565)
Even if u were, ‘pointing it out’ in the manner u did was an overtly political act and against forum rules.

Pointing out a political act is indeed political, I guess. Your comment is as political as mine under your own lens, so you’re undermining your own point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog007 (Post 14155565)
That is obvious to others here as well. Accusations of ‘alt right’ ‘sexism’ and ‘dog whistles’ are terms dripping with political ideology.

They are ideological terms describing an ideology, which was clearly stated by the other poster.

He wasn’t hiding it at all. I mean, are you saying he wasn’t being ideological when he said “garbage music” exists because women are depressed?

So yeah, a comment referring to a comment “dripping with political ideology” by definition has to be political and ideological, even if it were completely descriptive and non-judgemental. I’m not going to play semantic games, I’m criticising a gratuitously sexist comment because it’s gross and because I think that’s the correct thing to do. It’s now down to the moderators to do their job.

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog007 (Post 14155578)
Can a moderator clean this thread up and take out the political posturing and virtue signalling from one member as well as folk psychological theories about medication from another. Can’t see how either have the slightest bit of relevance to the topic.

:lol: Andddd...here we go again. I'm going to try to explain it to you: when you ingest drugs that affect brain activity your perception of reality is altered, hence your senses, including hearing is also altered. When you have a large enough crowd that behave in a similar manner a "trend" is created. Songs, as above, are a cause of such trends. You're welcome. kfhkh

UnderTow 18th August 2019 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155026)
Officially 1/4, unoffically 1/2(illegally sourced + various opioids), under 30 years old. You seem very bussy being political correct on my posts.:)

Do you have a source for that?

Alistair

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14155584)
He wasn’t hiding it at all. I mean, are you saying he wasn’t being ideological when he said “garbage music” exists because women are depressed?

Look, you picked the wrong guy to fight against. I'm not your enemy, I'm nobody's enemy, and I wish the best to everyone, including the "depressed" women. :)

As stated in the previous comment, drugs do affect your brain activity, hence your hearing sense as well, and if you have a large enough crowd that it's on some form of prescribed psychiatric medication, plus the illegal/legal drugs, then, as a producer willing to make a quick buck, you come with a product that suits their perception of music. Songs as above are such examples, and sorry, to my ears, most of them are garbage(yes, I do think that B. Eilish song is not that bad actually, I don't like it-like it, but I do see and appreciate it's artistic value for what it is).

All good.

Moondog007 18th August 2019 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155586)
:lol: Andddd...here we go again. I'm going to try to explain it to you: when you ingest drugs that affect brain activity your perception of reality is altered, hence your senses, including hearing is also altered. When you have a large enough crowd that behave in a similar manner a "trend" is created. Songs, as above, are a cause of such trends. You're welcome. kfhkh

I strongly defended u against political accusations but ur theory still makes exactly zero sense. No evidence whatsoever that singing styles/trends are impacted by anxiety or depression treatments. Sure, certain drugs can alter perception. It does not logically follow from this fact that modern singing styles are causally determined by prescribed medication. U could use the same logic to describe any trend in society and then blame it on medication.

UnderTow 18th August 2019 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155586)
When you have a large enough crowd that behave in a similar manner a "trend" is created. Songs, as above, are a cause of such trends.

What do you mean by "songs as above"? Songs you don't like?

What is your actual point?

Alistair

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderTow (Post 14155598)
Do you have a source for that?

Alistair

Yeap:

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/stat...-illness.shtml

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog007 (Post 14155607)
I strongly defended u against political accusations but ur theory still makes exactly zero sense. No evidence whatsoever that singing styles/trends are impacted by anxiety or depression treatments. Sure, certain drugs can alter perception. It does not logically follow from this fact that modern singing styles are causally determined by prescribed medication. U could use the same logic to describe any trend in society and then blame it on medication.

But, you don't need to defend me from anything, there's nothing to defend me from, thank you for your good intentions, though.

I'm not an Engineer to provide measurements on how taking this exact drug distorts your hearing in this manner in a way you perceive this and that sound in a pleasurable way, but there's an obvious link between the "depressed" songs that gain more and more popularity directly proportional to the larger and larger young American audience that are on some form of mental medication or/and various other chemicals that affects brain activity. Stats don't lie.

DistortingJack 18th August 2019 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155567)
There is no heat of anything sexist. You created it, and lives only in your mind. Pointing out behavioral facts about the American female population has nothing to do with sexism.

Or maybe a Romanian guy (see how it’s easy to dog-whistle politically without being overt?) might not want to create vast generalisations about the quality of US music (which you called “garbage”, remember?) being caused by women being mentally ill and on drugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155567)
You dislike political content on gearslutz, yet you are labeling me as an alt-right person

Yes. You used several words in your comments that are only used the way you did in alt-right contexts. I’m not going to debate whether using “triggered” instead of “annoyed” isn’t a political act because that’s playing into your trolling.

Criticising ideological **** in a forum is indeed political, I’m for one not pretending it’s not. I’m happy for my comments to be taken down alongside yours because I own that fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155567)
I don't care if song writers use drugs or not, it's their personal life, I use my ears to judge it, and so does everyone else. Nobody cares what writers/singers do in their private life. This is not relevant to our debate here.

You literally said that new music was “garbage” because of women being depressed and drugged up with “hallucinogens”. You brought this up, don’t play coy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155567)
Yes, so called "depressive" songs always existed, but where they as popular as today in US?!

Obviously yes! Jeez it’s like Grunge “I hate myself and I want to die”, Nu Metal “I flirt with suicide, sometimes kill the pain”, and Emo “love is watching someone die” weren’t the some of the biggest forms of rock music for the last three decades?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155612)

I see no relation in that link between mental illness and the quality (or “garbage-ness”) of female musicians.

Honestly I would even agree that there is a relationship between the type of music and the mental health of people. What was sexist about your comment is to assume it was garbage because of the gender. What about all the sad guys, is their music and music taste garbage?

AndreiPiatra 18th August 2019 01:39 PM

@ DistortingJack Don't bother replying if you're not reading or distorting for fun/any other purpose what I write. You're being political, off-topic and trying to provoke users for reasons I couldn't care less. Good luck with that.

DistortingJack 18th August 2019 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra (Post 14155641)
@ DistortingJack Don't bother replying if you're not reading or distorting for fun/any other purpose what I write. You're being political, off-topic and trying to provoke users for reasons I couldn't care less. Good luck with that.

Concede that there is nothing inherent or specific to only women that makes them create or listen to “garbage” music if depressed, on drugs, or on medication, and I’ll stop pointing out that the idea is sexist and gross.

Moondog007 18th August 2019 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14155584)
No, I’m not, that’s down to the moderators. And I hope all of this will be deleted alongside the original sexist comment.



Pointing out a political act is indeed political, I guess. Your comment is as political as mine under your own lens, so you’re undermining your own point.



They are ideological terms describing an ideology, which was clearly stated by the other poster.

He wasn’t hiding it at all. I mean, are you saying he wasn’t being ideological when he said “garbage music” exists because women are depressed?

So yeah, a comment referring to a comment “dripping with political ideology” by definition has to be political and ideological, even if it were completely descriptive and non-judgemental. I’m not going to play semantic games, I’m criticising a gratuitously sexist comment because it’s gross and because I think that’s the correct thing to do. It’s now down to the moderators to do their job.

Ummm no. Not even close. Telling someone to simply refrain from politics is not the same as getting on an ideological high horse and accusing someone of providing a ‘dog whistle’ for the ‘alt right.’ That’s a political accusation and it doesn’t belong here. Your conduct and language makes ur political leanings obvious. That’s also political. I may agree or disagree with ur politics. It’s irrelevent. U have no idea what my political persuasion is from this thread because nothing I said reveals it. That’s what is different from what I’m saying and what u are saying. Keep politics out of Gearslutz is my point. I’m equally unkind to the person who u are arguing with.

creegstor 18th August 2019 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog007 (Post 14155607)
No evidence whatsoever that singing styles/trends are impacted by anxiety or depression treatments. Sure, certain drugs can alter perception. It does not logically follow from this fact that modern singing styles are causally determined by prescribed medication. U could use the same logic to describe any trend in society and then blame it on medication.

Drugs alter mood. Singing expresses mood. It's not a leap.

You can accurately hear expressions of particular drugs on many albums. For example, despite the band's pretty squeaky public image and oft-stated anti-drug stance, I long had a suspicion that Simple Minds' Sparkle In The Rain album was made while they were bouncing off the walls on coke. Zero proof but damn if it ain't obvious in the playing and singing. I just read a response from Steve Lilywhite the other day when asked about that record. His response? Direct quote: "That was a cocaine album".

This thread is about a bizarre vocal trend. It's not OT to suggest likely social factors contributing to it. Modern pop singers sing similar to how street heroin addicts talk. Given the incredible proliferation of prescription medication I don't think that's an accident. It's almost certain that consumption of Xanax and Oxy are huge contributors.

UnderTow 18th August 2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creegstor (Post 14155715)
Drugs alter mood. Singing expresses mood. It's not a leap.

You can accurately hear expressions of particular drugs on many albums. For example, despite the band's pretty squeaky public image and oft-stated anti-drug stance, I long had a suspicion that Simple Minds' Sparkle In The Rain album was made while they were bouncing off the walls on coke. Zero proof but damn if it ain't obvious in the playing and singing. I just read a response from Steve Lilywhite the other day when asked about that record. His response? Direct quote: "That was a cocaine album".

This thread is about a bizarre vocal trend. It's not OT to suggest likely social factors contributing to it. Modern pop singers sing similar to how street heroin addicts talk. Given the incredible proliferation of prescription medication I don't think that's an accident. It's almost certain that consumption of Xanax and Oxy are huge contributors.

I'm sure prescription psychiatric medication affects artistic output similarly to other illegal substances affecting things but it seems that AnreiPiatra is using that as an excuse to condemn the music (and the people making it). It is his judgemental tone that is getting him the reactions he is.

This thread kind of says it all really: Who listens to such music?

Alistair

creegstor 18th August 2019 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderTow (Post 14155787)
I'm sure prescription psychiatric medication affects artistic output similarly to other illegal substances affecting things but it seems that AnreiPiatra is using that as an excuse to condemn the music (and the people making it). It is his judgemental tone that is getting him the reactions he is.

This thread kind of says it all really: Who listens to such music?

Alistair

Opioids are more widely consumed than any other hard drug and they kill more people than any. It's not even close. That kind of mass consumption will undoubtedly affect the perceptive and motors of both people singing and people listening.

The entire premise of this thread is somewhat judgmental. Why single this guy out?